kliq
Registered User
- Dec 17, 2017
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What has he done lately?
I think most would point to the 2018 draft.
What has he done lately?
Ken Holland has been involved drafting the winning core he did win 4 Cups and 6 President's trophies, and will be doing same again.
He is drafting our next core for the next GM who'll get all the success.
Such a great hockey-mind.
This bashing is just disgusting.
I'm with you except the Howard contract. For his cap hit, and considering it's up after this season, he did his job.Disgusting? What's disgusting are the Abdelkader and Helm contracts. The Nielsen and the Ericsson contracts. The Dekeyser and the Howard contracts. The massive overpayment on Stephen Weiss, only to buy him out after 2 years. These contracts he has dished out are disgusting. Sure over the pat year or so he has made a couple nice trades, but the reason we are the worst team in the NHL with one of the highest cap hits can be blamed on Holland, and Holland only.
It's time for a massive culture change. A new GM and new coach are needed. These guys have overstayed their welcome, and their message has become stale. The players don't compete for them.
Ken Holland has been involved drafting the winning core he did win 4 Cups and 6 President's trophies, and will be doing same again.
He is drafting our next core for the next GM who'll get all the success.
Such a great hockey-mind.
This bashing is just disgusting.
Disgusting? What's disgusting are the Abdelkader and Helm contracts. The Nielsen and the Ericsson contracts. The Dekeyser and the Howard contracts. The massive overpayment on Stephen Weiss, only to buy him out after 2 years. These contracts he has dished out are disgusting. Sure over the pat year or so he has made a couple nice trades, but the reason we are the worst team in the NHL with one of the highest cap hits can be blamed on Holland, and Holland only.
It's time for a massive culture change. A new GM and new coach are needed. These guys have overstayed their welcome, and their message has become stale. The players don't compete for them.
By "achieving" re-building on the fly, I assume you mean "re-building on the fly to win the cup"? I only ask, because if you just mean doing it successfully and maintaining contending status, I would say San Jose did it as well.
The last Cup win was a decade ago, as were the President's Trophies. The guy has had a great career as a GM but this is a results based business. He's never had to rebuild a team as GM and up until the last draft or so a lot of the moves he was making didn't exactly instill confidence. Like coaches, GM's have a shelf life too, regardless of their past accomplishments.
Frankly it's hard to reconcile the guy who helped build those Cup teams with the guy who handed out those contracts to Helm and Abby, but they're the same person. It's like Kenny has had two distinct chapters of his career as GM. One was all glory and the other is a lot of head scratching.
Well considering they have more years of "did not qualify" to make the playoffs than making the cup finals, let alone never winning a cup.... I guess they did okay. But that would never fly around here if KH had the same results. And they did just draft #9 like 3 or 4 years ago. /Meh.
Feels like SJS are always in the never, never zone. Good enough to not draft superstars, but not good enough to win a cup.
You say "decade" like it's a long time. A decade in a 30-team league in which only 1 can win each year. And in that decade only 5/30 teams have won. And before that decade we had one of the best decades of any sports franchise in sports history. And after that decade we had the continuation of a playoff streak that KH valued (whether or not you care about that, it's over now, so the situation is completely different).
If we're still in bad shape a few more years from now, you'll have a point. But right now it is way too early to harp on this what have you done for me lately stuff.
Well considering they have more years of "did not qualify" to make the playoffs than making the cup finals, let alone never winning a cup.... I guess they did okay. But that would never fly around here if KH had the same results. And they did just draft #9 like 3 or 4 years ago. /Meh.
Feels like SJS are always in the never, never zone. Good enough to not draft superstars, but not good enough to win a cup.
Kings didn't think so when they fired Lombardi. Sports are a pretty "what have you done for me lately" environment.
I think the link between the bad contracts and and us being bad is overstated. I'm not going to argue that these contracts were good, outside of the Howard contract and maybe at the DD contract, those are mostly very bad, but had Holland not signed those contracts, or if he could snap his fingers and make those contracts disappear, I don't think we are any better. Sure maybe guys like Frk, Turgeon, Puempel, Sulak etc. are probably playing every day in the lineup, but we are not any better as a team.
The reason why we are bad is because our elite talent regressed, went on LTIR, or left and we were not able to replenish with new elite talent leaving us with a team of second and third line players. Cap Space and financial flexibility only matters when you are a contender. If say the Caps or Pens etc. signed someone like Abby to a contract like his, that could be a killer to the franchise as it could prevent them from adding that final piece to the puzzle therefore decreasing their shots at winning the Stanley Cup. In our situation, all it does is increase our payroll, and possibly prevent a free agent signing that could make us marginally better. Again, this IS NOT a defense of those contracts, I just can't buy in to the narrative that they have anything to do with why we are where we are now. Do you really think that if we never signed any of those guys, and instead singed players like Stasny, Niskanen, etc. we would be cup contenders?
When things come crashing down, people like to point and all types of different reasons as to why, in our case its simple. No elite talent. Hopefully Larkin, Zadina, Chowolski, and future picks to come can get there.
I can't defend the majority of Holland's moves between 2014-2017, but from the 2017 TDL on, I think he has done a great job. Comments to the media mean nothing to me, I dont care if he says he is not looking over his shoulder.
And theres no guarantee any of those players will be high quality stars. The last move he has done to make the team better is what, signing Hossa as a UFA?I think most would point to the 2018 draft.
How about trading down in the 2016 draft (16-20) for what turned out to be Cholowski, Hronek, and $7.5 mil cap hit?What has he done lately?
First of all, Ken Campbell is an idiot.When you look at the line of questioning that THN purportedly asked before and after that exchange, it might just as well be you who is taking it out of context. The questioner appears to be trying to get Holland to tip his hand regarding this upcoming off-season and a potential hand-off/succession (i.e. "the Steve Yzerman situation"); anyone who knows the first damn thing about this organization knows that the chances of Holland being fired or otherwise unseated against his will are nil.
He could've answered the follow-up question effectively the same way he answered the initial question: "No." For a guy who is normally tactful and almost graceful in his dealings with the press, Holland's response here was utterly revealing.
I think the link between the bad contracts and and us being bad is overstated. I'm not going to argue that these contracts were good, outside of the Howard contract and maybe at the DD contract, those are mostly very bad, but had Holland not signed those contracts, or if he could snap his fingers and make those contracts disappear, I don't think we are any better. Sure maybe guys like Frk, Turgeon, Puempel, Sulak etc. are probably playing every day in the lineup, but we are not any better as a team.
The reason why we are bad is because our elite talent regressed, went on LTIR, or left and we were not able to replenish with new elite talent leaving us with a team of second and third line players. Cap Space and financial flexibility only matters when you are a contender. If say the Caps or Pens etc. signed someone like Abby to a contract like his, that could be a killer to the franchise as it could prevent them from adding that final piece to the puzzle therefore decreasing their shots at winning the Stanley Cup. In our situation, all it does is increase our payroll, and possibly prevent a free agent signing that could make us marginally better. Again, this IS NOT a defense of those contracts, I just can't buy in to the narrative that they have anything to do with why we are where we are now. Do you really think that if we never signed any of those guys, and instead singed players like Stasny, Niskanen, etc. we would be cup contenders?
When things come crashing down, people like to point and all types of different reasons as to why, in our case its simple. No elite talent. Hopefully Larkin, Zadina, Chowolski, and future picks to come can get there.
I can't defend the majority of Holland's moves between 2014-2017, but from the 2017 TDL on, I think he has done a great job. Comments to the media mean nothing to me, I dont care if he says he is not looking over his shoulder.
since doug Wilson became their GM, they have missed the playoffs once and made the cup finals once.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "did not qualify" remark.
They Sharks were contenders in the early 2000's after acquiring Joe Thornton. Since then they have maintained that status as a contenders pretty much every year with the exception of 2014/15 when they did not make the playoffs. They (like the Wings before them) found a way to keep up high end hockey without any draft picks in the top 5.
I agree with your point that the Wings did a great job re-building on the fly, I just think the Sharks did a great job as well since Thornton joined them. Now if we are talking playoff success, that is a different story lol.
They also didn't qualify in 2003 when Kenny was already playing Datsyuk and Zetterberg.
Since 2002 they missed the playoffs more times than they made it to the SCF. On this board, if it were Kenny H., fans here would call that a massive failure, not a good rebuild on the fly.
From the outside point of view, I see it as okay. But If I were a SJS fan, I'd be sick over not getting over the hump. Jumbo Joe isn't getting any younger.
And theres no guarantee any of those players will be high quality stars. The last move he has done to make the team better is what, signing Hossa as a UFA?
The reason why many of them were bad were that they happened at all. Most of the players signed that people hate are exactly the ones that teams what learned how to work under the new CBA would let walk and replace with kids. Roleplayers are great to have, but paying a premium to keep them, especially entering a rebuild, instead of trading them, was a major mistake and may have set things back that much more.