News Article: THN: Kenny "I don't look over my shoulder" Holland

[Pavels Dog]

It's a fine interview, but people are going to take that one quote out of context and attack his character.

So, every Kenny interview/conference for the last 5 or more years?

 

[Henkka]

Am I the only who could see Holland being replaced in Feb? Not saying he gets fired. But, a change is made......................

Maybe february 2020.

Yzerman will prroably be hired at next summer and then they'll work one year together in different roles.

And I won't really care which one is GM or advisor on that point. Just put the brains last time together.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Not getting sucked in Jonas.

Sure.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

There's no denying that Holland is a great hockey mind, but he has run his course as a GM of this team and isn't maybe aggressive enough to command a rebuild on this day and era.

If and when Stevie returns, I'd hate to see Holland go to a different org. I'd prefer him in an advisor/presiden role etc.

He'd probably have the option of being in an advisory role if he wanted it, but if I had to bet, I'd say he'll probably end up taking a GM job on another team.

 

[Oddbob]

Speaking selfishly, I would love to see Yzerman take over and initiate an honest rebuild in Detroit.

Umm,the honest rebuild has long started and if you don't see that for the past 2 seasons plus, then you either have blind hatred for Holland and Co., or visibly can't see the actual move towards youth. Literally every trade the past 2+ seasons has been to be better in the future, not the present. Signing Vanek and Bernier prevented nothing in terms of rebuilding, absolutely nothing! Zadina and Rasmussen really are not even ready to play NHL hockey right now, and there is absolutely no rush. The bad contracts are just that, we don't need space, so let them slowly burn down. This next offseason we already have 20+ coming off the books, and Zadina and Ras will hopefully be more ready and better next year, and the rest of this year.

If we weren't rebuilding, with all the D injuries, Kenny would have traded for someone by this point, you know he would have! No way in a competitive year, he would leave it to 4 rookie blue liners.

 

[Oddbob]

I'm not sure what you mean by the "did not qualify" remark.

They Sharks were contenders in the early 2000's after acquiring Joe Thornton. Since then they have maintained that status as a contenders pretty much every year with the exception of 2014/15 when they did not make the playoffs. They (like the Wings before them) found a way to keep up high end hockey without any draft picks in the top 5.

I agree with your point that the Wings did a great job re-building on the fly, I just think the Sharks did a great job as well since Thornton joined them. Now if we are talking playoff success, that is a different story lol.

The Sharks have always been a nothing burger! They are the Western Conference, Philadelphia Flyers, and until last season the Washington Capitals. Usually decent, but always come up short. They made the Finals in 2016, and apart from that, they have been many 1st and 2nd round exits and a couple 3rd round exits as well as a number of missed playoffs since our 4 Cups run started. They belong nowhere in the conversation with the Wings success, nowhere near. Really there only major success in the playoffs has come when they play us, but their playoff series record against most others teams is not exactly great.

 

[TheMule93]

The Sharks have always been a nothing burger! They are the Western Conference, Philadelphia Flyers, and until last season the Washington Capitals. Usually decent, but always come up short. They made the Finals in 2016, and apart from that, they have been many 1st and 2nd round exits and a couple 3rd round exits as well as a number of missed playoffs since our 4 Cups run started. They belong nowhere in the conversation with the Wings success, nowhere near. Really there only major success in the playoffs has come when they play us, but their playoff series record against most others teams is not exactly great.

You completely missed his point

 

[kliq]

The Sharks have always been a nothing burger! They are the Western Conference, Philadelphia Flyers, and until last season the Washington Capitals. Usually decent, but always come up short. They made the Finals in 2016, and apart from that, they have been many 1st and 2nd round exits and a couple 3rd round exits as well as a number of missed playoffs since our 4 Cups run started. They belong nowhere in the conversation with the Wings success, nowhere near. Really there only major success in the playoffs has come when they play us, but their playoff series record against most others teams is not exactly great.

I'm just talking their ability to remain contenders without top 5 picks. I'm not defending their playoff failures lol.

 

[Oddbob]

You completely missed his point

How did I miss the point? He was saying the Sharks were rebuilding on the fly like the Wings did!

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

How about trading down in the 2016 draft (16-20) for what turned out to be Cholowski, Hronek, and $7.5 mil cap hit?

Then giving it to Nielsen...

 

[InjuredChoker]

kenny still had this nick lidström guy while he rebuilt on the fly.

and the rebuild on the fly didn't really happen during the cap era. datsyuk was already our leading scorer back in 04.

 

[InjuredChoker]

They also didn't qualify in 2003 when Kenny was already playing Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

2003 wasn't cap era.

 

[Mlotek]

I think kenny will always have a job practically anywhere he wants to work. His resume speaks for itself, and the only GM in the cap-era to achieve a rebuild on the fly.

By rebuild on the fly, do you mean ride the first 4-5 years of the salary cap era than slowly watch the team deteriorate year after year?

Ride the stars (Lidstrom/Datsyuk/Zetterberg) as far as you can.

Can probably include Rafalski there. Since Raf retired in 2011 the team has been sinking downward.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

The fact that Holland has never fired a coach or made a trade for a roster player in years tells you all you need to know about him. He is old stuck in his ways.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

kenny still had this nick lidström guy while he rebuilt on the fly.

and the rebuild on the fly didn't really happen during the cap era. datsyuk was already our leading scorer back in 04.

He also lied and said he would retire with Lidstrom.

 

[Mlotek]

The fact that Holland has never fired a coach or made a trade for a roster player in years tells you all you need to know about him. He is old stuck in his ways.

Holland never trades roster players for roster players.

There is 4-5 examples during his entire tenure, and I don't even want to count the Eaves dump to Nashville. That was solely to keep player count down for Legwand coming in. Plus Holland believed Eaves was done after taking that slapshot to the head.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Holland never trades roster players for roster players.

There is 4-5 examples during his entire tenure, and I don't even want to count the Eaves dump to Nashville. That was solely to keep player count down for Legwand coming in. Plus Holland believed Eaves was done after taking that slapshot to the head.

That's because most roster player for roster player trades aren't really that helpful. Because basically, you are hoping that you'll somehow get excess value out of the guy you are dealing for or are getting out from a bad deal for another bad deal.

"Hockey trades" aren't really all that common. It is usually futures for NHL players or NHL players for futures. Think of all the hockey trades (1v1 roster player for roster player). How many of them were predicated on anything but saving money or reaping some other benefit?

Trades are usually most helpful if they are futures for players/rentals or players/rentals for futures. A way to actually get a positive value out of a deal that doesn't involve just outright robbing a team like Edmonton.

 

[Frk It]

That's because most roster player for roster player trades aren't really that helpful. Because basically, you are hoping that you'll somehow get excess value out of the guy you are dealing for or are getting out from a bad deal for another bad deal.

"Hockey trades" aren't really all that common. It is usually futures for NHL players or NHL players for futures. Think of all the hockey trades (1v1 roster player for roster player). How many of them were predicated on anything but saving money or reaping some other benefit?

Trades are usually most helpful if they are futures for players/rentals or players/rentals for futures. A way to actually get a positive value out of a deal that doesn't involve just outright robbing a team like Edmonton.

I will disagree that they aren’t helpful... They just aren’t always helpful for both sides.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He also lied and said he would retire with Lidstrom.

You actually believe he wasn't joking around when he said that? smh

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Why do people get so bent out of shape over what Holland says in interviews? Who cares? Let his actions determine his actual philosophy and judge him on that.

No, I am not surprised Holland thinks he has job security. The Ilitch family loves him and being a major contributor to four championships (whether as a GM or otherwise) is going to give you a ridiculous amount of leeway.

 

[Henkka]

Why do people get so bent out of shape over what Holland says in interviews? Who cares? Let his actions determine his actual philosophy and judge him on that.

I've always wondered the same. He speaks is like a politician. Says something and acts different. Acts are what matter, in reality.

 

[Mlotek]

That's because most roster player for roster player trades aren't really that helpful. Because basically, you are hoping that you'll somehow get excess value out of the guy you are dealing for or are getting out from a bad deal for another bad deal.

"Hockey trades" aren't really all that common. It is usually futures for NHL players or NHL players for futures. Think of all the hockey trades (1v1 roster player for roster player). How many of them were predicated on anything but saving money or reaping some other benefit?

Trades are usually most helpful if they are futures for players/rentals or players/rentals for futures. A way to actually get a positive value out of a deal that doesn't involve just outright robbing a team like Edmonton.

Literally every trade is about trying to get some form of benefit for your team. Otherwise you wouldn't bother with it.

Be it dumping a locker room cancer like Evander Kane, or acquired a much needed defenceman.



I meant even more broad than just 1 for 1 player trades. ANY trades were roster players exchanged hands.

So trades like Vancouver-Montreal Patchess for Tatar + futures would count. And that is more of a trade for futures.

I don't t think player-player trades are as rare as you think they are. Different GMs rely on trading more or less than others. Ottawa is always dumping salary, Winnipeg is always trying to stay pay, and Montreal..... well things are kinda fluid there. Lets look at Bergevin for example.

Domi = Galchenyuk
Pactioretty = Tatar+futures
Weber = Subban
Davidson = Desharnais
Shaw + picks = Eller + picks = picks [Basically was Shaw for Eller and trading pair of 2016 picks for pair of 2018 picks in same round]
Danault + pick = Fleischmann + Weise
Prust = Kassian
Moen = Gonchar
Briere = Parenteau + pick
Diaz = Weise
Cole = Ryder + pick


Shall we include Scrivens for Kassian?


That is considerably more roster-roster trades in 5 years than Holland during 20.

Trades for futures are always a gamble. Look at the Chelios for Eriksson + trio of 1st round picks. Technically is a roster for roster trade, but Eriksson had limited value and it was 100% for the futures in Chicago.

0/3 of the 1st rounders became NHL players.


As for Edmonton trade, pretty sure everyone saw it as a bad trade when it happened, and Hall's play the past couple years only re-confirmed everyone's thoughts. But Edmonton left themselves in a cap crunch with surplus of talented forwards and massive lack of defenceman.


BTW to re-state my original point which appears is lost on you. I did not mean roster for roster trades are great or a must. Just reconfirming tiesgo's post that Holland simply does not do roster-roster trades.

 

[GMR]

The reason Kenny has this attitude is because ownership has given him blanket immunity at his job. How many people have immunity at their job and know they can never be fired? Not many. Of course he's arrogant. The ownership is to blame for this.

 

[Kranix]

What's he gonna say, "ohhhh I hope Stevey Y doesn't come back and throw me out the door like the fresh prince..."

My translation of the article:
Campbell: So, you guys suck so bad, almost like you're tanking. You're bottoming out. This is new for you. You starting to sweat a little bit? What's that like?
Holland: I was with the Red Wings in the 80s so it's fine.
Campbell: You're on the hot seat though. You're not tanking?
Holland: No. We signed Vanek.
Campbell: Yzerman just left the Lightning, that has to make you sweat a little...little bit of a hot seat.
Holland: **** you.

 

[Oddbob]

He didn't respond any differently than any GM would with this type of question.

What is he gonna say? "I need my MOMMY, Stevie is on the loose! Hide me please!"