Post-Game Talk: This Team Needs John Scott

[ap3x]

That genius.

 

[DeYarmond Edison]

Confirmed. Blashill is a turd.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Better question is - what the hell makes them think he is a top 6 winger?

Honestly, if we had a healthy Franzen I don't think we would ever see him in the lineup.

 

[HIFE]

I'd agree that the team didn't play bad from an effort standpoint, but I just think there's no chemistry with the lines and that the way the lines are set up are hindering this team.

Yeah I was pleasantly surprised with the effort. Happened to watch the Caps/Panthers contest the night before and Capitals were super flat. This game had some intensity and bad blood flowing which is always a good thing. Tied 1-1 through over 1/2 the game I thought the Wings very well could have taken over.

Not sure if you've been here all season datsyukfan but the posts here discussing forward line combinations have been stated incessantly from the pre-season on. Blashill has attempted to respond to losses by mixing the lines in almost every combination possible (within reason). Remember Larkin and Nyquist switching places? Helm was put up with Dats after multiple games of Richards and Pulkks/Jurco on the 2nd. Then Richards was down to the 3rd for several games for Tatar. Larkin on the 2nd line. For a few shifts here and there we've seen Dats with Z and Abbie/Larkin, Helm back on the 4th line, on and on. Sadly none of the combos are that much more terrific than the next. This season feels like one giant experiment searching for "exceptional" chemistry that may be impossible to generate.

I'm not at all frustrated by the line-combo discussion. Really what else is there to talk about? The Wings have been a middle of the pack team for seasons now, fighting to the last RS games for a playoff spot. The product is what it is. I've gotten down on the guys but for now am curious and excited what type of noise we can make or if the Wings fall flat on their faces. If we did miss the PO's then changes (even subtle) are bound to happen which is a positive. As others have posted February is huge and will make or break this team I think.

...We lost that game last night because a more talented team matched our intensity. It is as simple as that.

 

[TheMule93]

I've gotten down on the guys but for now am curious and excited what type of noise we can make or if the Wings fall flat on their faces. If we did miss the PO's then changes (even subtle) are bound to happen which is a positive.

If we missed the playoffs do you think Holland would go into a full rebuild?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

If we missed the playoffs do you think Holland would go into a full rebuild?

Well the playoff streak would be over, so he would probably feel more inclined to blow it up a bit more.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That genius.

That seems like such a Babcock move.

 

[Frk It]

I think we would have to not even be close. If we were close he would cite an injury, or just say parity 10 times and keep on with more of the same.

 

[HIFE]

If we missed the playoffs do you think Holland would go into a full rebuild?

That seems unlikely but may be some tweaks such as letting Quincey go. I'm much less knowledgeable or opinionated on the subject of Holland and the organization's strategy. Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I think we should hold the players accountable more, as a whole.

That said, the idea that "players should produce with anyone" is a little bit overly idealistic, IMO. Very good players have shown an inability to produce with certain players, or certain types of players. You have to put your guys in a position to succeed, while also looking at the balance across the lines.

I think we can play better despite the lines. First goal was a direct result of a bad turnover, for example.

At the extremes you are absolutely correct. Yet at the same time, people are acting like Blash NEVER changes our lines, which isn't true (either game-to-game or within games). People were clamoring for line changes when Tatar was up with Helm and Pav. Prior to that they were *****ing about Pav not playing with any goal scorers. Today people are *****ing about Tatar and Gus playing together even though they have probably played over 100 professional games together. I am convinced that when it comes to line combinations, the grass is always greener around here. We could put our six most skilled players on the top two lines like the video game kids want and people would start asking for Abby and Helm back.

At what point do you acknowledge it is talent and not chemistry?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

That seems unlikely but may be some tweaks such as letting Quincey go. I'm much less knowledgeable or opinionated on the subject of Holland and the organization's strategy. Anyone else have some thoughts on this?

Just my opinion, but it may be a bit late for a full rebuild. A true rebuild required trading Pav, Z and Kronwall when Nick hung them up. It seems like it is too late to effectively do that now. Even if you could find takers they won't return much now.

To properly rebuild, you can't just miss the playoffs. You need to really miss the playoffs.

 

[MVPete96]

This team needs more out of Tatar and Nyquist. With Pav and Z growing older, these guys were supposed to become core pieces of our team. Sadly they have actually regressed since joining the team IMO. For this team to be successful Tatar and Nyquist need to step it up big time. If they can't one should certainly be traded if not both.

 

[utvolsfan]

IMO this team is too small and way to soft. When 2 of Tampa's smaller players are hacking and wracking after every whistle and the wings just skate away, or big Boyle starts going after Larkin at the end, not to mention the huge run Callahan took at Helm and no says boo, that's a problem. I know we have cap issues, but two guys just went through waivers that would have helped with the soft issue Prust and Gazdic. Granted goon days are gone, but this team needs someone a set on them.Not to mention more size up front, we may have the smallest fourth line in hockey.

 

[obey86]

Why doesn't this board ever hold players accountable? When **** goes wrong all we hear about is line combinations, line combinations, line combinations. Good hockey players always find a way to produce. It doesn't matter who they play with or how they are used, they find a way to produce. A lack of talent should not be confused for a lack of chemistry.

I also think people need to seriously, and I mean seriously, readjust their expectations of Pav and Z. Both are very much in decline and show very little speed these days. Both were eaten alive yesterday by back pressure. We are at a point where they cannot be counted on to skate the puck through the neutral zone. It doesn't surprise me one bit that Blash insists on playing Pav with Helm and Z with Larkin. Both really need to be carried by faster forwards. At this point we need to be more worried about getting Pav and Z the puck and less worried about them getting the puck to their line mates. At one point in time we could take the first part of that equation for granted. Those days are behind us.

We lost that game last night because a more talented team matched our intensity. It is as simple as that.

This x 1000000009494994. Their speed deficiencies kill the offense so much. IMO, the Wings need to stop trying to rely on Z and Dats so much. Cut their minutes somehow. appreciate everything they've done, but they just aren't that good anymore.

 

[obey86]

I hate to say it, but I really dislike having Abby on the team. It sucks because I like they way he plays and he brings a lot to the table but the fact that coaching and management want him in the top 6 really limits our options. If he werent on the team, I would have liked to see something like this...

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Mantha
Larkin-Richards-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-AA
Helm-Glendening-Jurco/Pulks

Zetterberg and Datsyuk simply can't play together anymore. That's way too much slowness on one line.

 

[obey86]

I agree with the idea of moving Datsyuk and Zetterberg far down the depth chart. Give some of the younger guys top 6 minutes. Seriously.. what's it going to hurt at this point. This team is abysmal offensively.

They need to do this. Jurco has been good lately, Pulkkinen isn't a 4th liner, and Sheahan has played much better than his stats indicate IMO. What's it going to hurt? They already have the worst offense in the league.

 

[obey86]

Datsyuk is worse.

We can agree they are both washed up and average at best at this point. Neither of them is "carrying" anything anymore like what seems to be the popular consensus around hfboards.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

We can agree they are both washed up and average at best at this point. Neither of them is "carrying" anything anymore like what seems to be the popular consensus around hfboards.

So Helm and Richards are carrying Datsyuk, and Gator and Larkin are carrying Z?

Meanwhile Z is tied for most points on the team, and Datsyuk is going to end up #3.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Zetterberg and Datsyuk simply can't play together anymore. That's way too much slowness on one line.

Ever since they were together in that OT game and their slowness really showed, people have been blaming their speed a little too much. While agree, having them together in OT is a bad idea, 5on5 however, not so much. They know how to posses the puck better than anyone else on this team. Having Zetterberg on Datsyuks wing can only help. Zetterberg is not only willing to shoot the puck, but does a better job of putting the puck in the net than Helm or Richards.

 

[Frk It]

I agree with the idea of moving Datsyuk and Zetterberg far down the depth chart. Give some of the younger guys top 6 minutes. Seriously.. what's it going to hurt at this point. This team is abysmal offensively.

Larkin is not ready to play top 6 center. Sheahan is not good enough to be a top 6 center.

So who you gonna play at center when you move Datsyuk and Z "far down the depth chart"?

That's the problem.

 

[obey86]

Ever since they were together in that OT game and their slowness really showed, people have been blaming their speed a little too much. While agree, having them together in OT is a bad idea, 5on5 however, not so much. They know how to posses the puck better than anyone else on this team. Having Zetterberg on Datsyuks wing can only help. Zetterberg is not only willing to shoot the puck, but does a better job of putting the puck in the net than Helm or Richards.

I have no idea what OT game you're talking about. I've been saying all season that Z and Dats are so slow out there....has nothing to do with a single game. Z might be the slowest center in the league and Dats doesn't have much speed to his game either anymore.

Also, Zetterberg's shots are way down and isn't near as willing or able to get off shots as he used to be. He might be a "willing shooter" but so many of his shot attempts are low percentage shots or are blocked because of his decline in ability.

Last 7 seasons here are Z's shots per game in chronological order: 4.18 --> 3.83 --> 3.26 --> 3.76 --> 3.36 --> 2.94 --> 2.24.

^ Outside of one outlier season (3.26) his shot numbers are on a pretty steady decline.

Possessing the puck is great, but if you're not able to score it's kind of like winning a participation trophy. Also, IIRC, players like Brendan Smith, Kindl, Jurco, and Pulkkinen are among the corsi leaders on the team (along with Datsyuk). Zetterberg is actually 3rd worst on the team in CF% at 5v5.

 

[obey86]

So Helm and Richards are carrying Datsyuk, and Gator and Larkin are carrying Z?

Meanwhile Z is tied for most points on the team, and Datsyuk is going to end up #3.

Huh? Never said that. No one is carrying anyone. It's a mishmash of a bunch of ~average players....none of who have the ability to carry a line....Z and Dats included. The Red Wings miss the Z and Dats who could carry a team from 3-4 years ago....those guys are already gone.

Great, Z might lead the Wings in points. He also plays 4-5 more minutes per game than Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist do. Try watching the games. Z isn't good. For reference, Z has 16 even strength points and Helm has 12. That's how great Z has been at even strength.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Huh? Never said that. No one is carrying anyone. It's a mishmash of a bunch of ~average players....none of who have the ability to carry a line....Z and Dats included. The Red Wings miss the Z and Dats who could carry a team from 3-4 years ago....those guys are already gone.

Great, Z might lead the Wings in points. He also plays 4-5 more minutes per game than Larkin, Tatar, Nyquist do. Try watching the games. Z isn't good. For reference, Z has 16 even strength points and Helm has 12. That's how great Z has been at even strength.

They are still better than every other center on the roster.

 

[obey86]

They are still better than every other center on the roster.

Great. That doesn't make them good. When they retire the Wings can sign a few more average centers on the free agent market and they would also be the best centers on the team.

Larkin should be playing center. Growing pains be damned. If they could play Z and Dats together (they can't) I think Larkin would be centering the 2nd line.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Great. That doesn't make them good. When they retire the Wings can sign a few more average centers on the free agent market and they would also be the best centers on the team.

Larkin should be playing center. Growing pains be damned. If they could play Z and Dats together (they can't) I think Larkin would be centering the 2nd line.

I'm all for the Wings tanking, but Ken Holland ain't gonna have any of that.

I would just trade Z/D instead of shuffling them down the lineup. This core roster is a bad joke.