Post-Game Talk: This team cannot be stopped

[Syckle78]

Well.... At least vanek scored again.

 

[Shoalzie]

Of course they'd get 4 points this weekend...makes no sense.

 

[Henkka]

Funny how they win the contenders, just because they are having off-nights against us.

 

[Bondurant]

When the train is going off the rails full steam they somehow manage wins against Washington and Pittsburgh. What a bizarre few days. It's not all salt on wounds.

 

[HockeyinHD]

No Green, no Nyquist and very little Larkin improved the cohesion and rotation of the defense enormously, which was surprising.

Mrazek playing very well improved the team enormously, which was not.

Capped leagues are something else. That, and I cannot imagine for a single second there are teams getting geared up for a Wings visit nowadays, so I think Detroit can do a little damage sneaking up on clubs looking to take a night off against the basement dwellers.

That Helm stumble. Dear God. I think someone has placed a voodoo curse on him when he gets a breakaway.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Smith making sure his trade value sky rockets!!!

 

[jkutswings]

This team isn't going full rebuild. You know that, and I know that. They're going to compete next season so if so, I'm kind of okay with re-signing Vanek over standing pat. Ideally we trade him and re-sign him in the summer. Then we hopefully lose one of Helm/Abdelkader, find a team for Howard, and make a blockbuster for a centre or a D.

The following two things are very different:
* What the franchise needs to contend for a Cup again
* What the front office is currently willing to do

I'd sooner expect a 6 year deal for Vanek than an honest self-appraisal. But one can hope.

 

[YpsiWings]

Smith making sure his trade value sky rockets!!!

Pierre and Eddie O were sure pumping those tires today weren't they. Smith played well this weekend but to hear them tell it you would think he was an all star.

Smith has been a different player after Roenick tore him to shreds the other day, kind of funny. Keep it up JR, there are a few other Wings that should get berated on live TV.

 

[jkutswings]

Of course they'd get 4 points this weekend...makes no sense.

Parity is a concept largely confined to the regular season. On a random night in February, any outcome is possible.

Over the course of 82 games, water usually finds its level.

During a playoff series, when you can more thoroughly scrutinize your opponent and better adapt...water fairly often finds its level.

Wins now hurt the draft stock more than have any lasting benefit.

 

[14ari13]

Mrazek

I think all 4 goals he allowed last 2 games were softish, but he won.

What do we have actually, 3 good goalies, 3 solid goalies or 3 bad goalies?

No pressure and we win.
The race will be interesting, it seems like 9/10 teams are fighting for the playoffs spots.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I'd sooner expect a 6 year deal for Vanek than an honest self-appraisal. But one can hope.

Detroit signs Shattenkirk and Vanek to 6 and 4 year deals in the offseason, respectively.
Detroit moves Howard's deal off the books to accomplish this.
Detroit drafts 6th overall and gets Liljegren.
Ott and Smith are gone.

That's not a bad start.

 

[jkutswings]

Detroit signs Shattenkirk and Vanek to 6 and 4 year deals in the offseason, respectively.
Detroit moves Howard's deal off the books to accomplish this.
Detroit drafts 6th overall and gets Liljegren.
Ott and Smith are gone.

That's not a bad start.

Oh, do tell. For such a lofty scenario:
1) What asset(s) have to exit to convince a team to take Howard?
2) What remaining asset(s) are dealt to land Shattenkirk?
3) Why does he want to play here for 6 years?
4) What makes you think all these circumstances are within the character of this front office?

 

[SoupNazi]

You realize Shattenkirk will be a free agent, and as such, no assets have to leave for him after free agency starts?

 

[Heaton]

Detroit signs Shattenkirk and Vanek to 6 and 4 year deals in the offseason, respectively.
Detroit moves Howard's deal off the books to accomplish this.
Detroit drafts 6th overall and gets Liljegren.
Ott and Smith are gone.

That's not a bad start.

God that would be awesome. I don't think the Wings have a realistic shot at Shattenkirk, it may be lip service but he sounds like he wants to play in Canada.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Oh, do tell. For such a lofty scenario:
1) What asset(s) have to exit to convince a team to take Howard?

Hold 2 of his current deal and his value equalizes. At 3.2 he's desirable. At 5.2 mil he's an anchor. Nothing great, but you can get a dumpy pick for him.

2) What remaining asset(s) are dealt to land Shattenkirk?

You typically don't have to trade assets when signing a UFA, but Detroit could always move a mid round pick for negotiating rights.

3) Why does he want to play here for 6 years?

Because he likes money?

4) What makes you think all these circumstances are within the character of this front office?

What circumstances? Detroit's already dumped contracts (Datsyuk) and held money back on other trades (Kindl). They've moved draft picks to get dmen (Quincey). They've spent big money on UFA dmen (Green). Detroit has recent examples of doing all the things they'd need to do to bring that fairly reasonable scenario to fruition, save drafting 6th overall. Honestly, that's the most unlikely of the 4. They'll probably be drafting later, like 8th, so they'll miss on the dman.

 

[HockeyinHD]

God that would be awesome. I don't think the Wings have a realistic shot at Shattenkirk, it may be lip service but he sounds like he wants to play in Canada.

I read the sportsnet piece that said Toronto and Montreal were on a list of 12 teams. I don't know, maybe a call from a relevant dman or two regarding Detroit's history at the position might sway the mind of a young lad a bit when it comes to picking a place to sign a big contract?

 

[jkutswings]

Hold 2 of his current deal and his value equalizes. At 3.2 he's desirable. At 5.2 mil he's an anchor. Nothing great, but you can get a dumpy pick for him.



You typically don't have to trade assets when signing a UFA, but Detroit could always move a mid round pick for negotiating rights.



Because he likes money?



What circumstances? Detroit's already dumped contracts (Datsyuk) and held money back on other trades (Kindl). They've moved draft picks to get dmen (Quincey). They've spent big money on UFA dmen (Green). Detroit has recent examples of doing all the things they'd need to do to bring that fairly reasonable scenario to fruition, save drafting 6th overall. Honestly, that's the most unlikely of the 4. They'll probably be drafting later, like 8th, so they'll miss on the dman.

Detroit is capped right now. If Vanek is likely getting a decent raise, and they're retaining 2 million from Howard, AND Shattenkirk is getting in the neighborhood of 6 million per year... Where is the extra 2-3 million coming from, even after dumping Smith and Ott?

 

[Winger98]

You realize Shattenkirk will be a free agent, and as such, no assets have to leave for him after free agency starts?

Given recent history, if we wait and try to bid on him, he'll already be gone to someone who traded for his rights. It won't be a huge asset to give up, but if we really want him, I think that fourth or fifth round pick for his rights is a price we would have to pay.

 

[YpsiWings]

Given recent history, if we wait and try to bid on him, he'll already be gone to someone who traded for his rights. It won't be a huge asset to give up, but if we really want him, I think that fourth or fifth round pick for his rights is a price we would have to pay.

Now that every team can talk to UFA's a week before free agency you don't see rights traded like they used to. Rule was changed last year or year before, I forget

 

[Winger98]

Now that every team can talk to UFA's a week before free agency you don't see rights traded like they used to. Rule was changed last year or year before, I forget

Last year Goligoski and Yandle were both off the market before free agency hit. Same thing happened with Petry the year earlier.

Maybe the best UFA D to hit the open market or sign in that week before free agency the past two years I think was Jason Demers.

I think that what we will see isn't so much guys waiting around and testing the market that last week as teams getting super aggressive for guys they want and giving them the contract needed to sign them when they deal for their rights.

Where we might see that week utilized is people like Stamkos who can demand a massive amount and likely get it from who they want. If guys like Shattenkirk are dealt, though, and someone is willing to meet their price...I think they're gone, because the only teams trading for those rights are going to be teams very motivated to meet those demands.

 

[YpsiWings]

Last year Goligoski and Yandle were both off the market before free agency hit. Same thing happened with Petry the year earlier.

Maybe the best UFA D to hit the open market or sign in that week before free agency the past two years I think was Jason Demers.

I think that what we will see isn't so much guys waiting around and testing the market that last week as teams getting super aggressive for guys they want and giving them the contract needed to sign them when they deal for their rights.

Where we might see that week utilized is people like Stamkos who can demand a massive amount and likely get it from who they want. If guys like Shattenkirk are dealt, though, and someone is willing to meet their price...I think they're gone, because the only teams trading for those rights are going to be teams very motivated to meet those demands.

Good call on the Yandle/Goligoski trade and sign. I have to disagree with teams getting real aggressive on trading for the rights of UFA though, I just don't see it.

Every GM can have an honest conversation with free agents before the circus opens. If an UFA wants to test the market than you can make your pitch regardless of rights, so what's the point?

 

[chances14]

Good call on the Yandle/Goligoski trade and sign. I have to disagree with teams getting real aggressive on trading for the rights of UFA though, I just don't see it.

Every GM can have an honest conversation with free agents before the circus opens. If an UFA wants to test the market than you can make your pitch regardless of rights, so what's the point?

I guess the big thing would be being able to make the first impression to the player.

here's a good article on the yandle/golioski sign and trades. trading for players rights certainly still popular among at least some gm's. http://www.si.com/nhl/2016/11/21/al...chayka-keith-yandle-panthers-interview-period

 

[PelagicJoe]

Detroit is capped right now. If Vanek is likely getting a decent raise, and they're retaining 2 million from Howard, AND Shattenkirk is getting in the neighborhood of 6 million per year... Where is the extra 2-3 million coming from, even after dumping Smith and Ott?

The Vegas expansion?

 

[avssuc]

Most of us have been hard on Kronwall, but that dude was clearing the crease like a prime Chelios tonight. Might move like a three toed sloth, but dude has heart.

 

[Reddwit]

Because he likes money?

What circumstances? Detroit's already dumped contracts (Datsyuk) and held money back on other trades (Kindl). They've moved draft picks to get dmen (Quincey). They've spent big money on UFA dmen (Green). Detroit has recent examples of doing all the things they'd need to do to bring that fairly reasonable scenario to fruition, save drafting 6th overall. Honestly, that's the most unlikely of the 4. They'll probably be drafting later, like 8th, so they'll miss on the dman.

Is there something special about Detroit's money then? Because Shattenkirk will easily get more money and more term if his only goal is money.

As for history swaying KS, yeah, I'm sure that was the selling point for Toronto and Montreal - not the fact that the former is executing an exciting and sound resurgence while the other features a superstar backstop, a righty defenseman who will ensure KS gets second-shift match-ups, and a GM unafraid of game-changing moves.

As for the circumstances, now there's that HiHD strawman specialty I've heard so much about. I'd love to know:

1. How much did it cost Arizona out-of-pocket to take Datsyuk?

2. What was the demanding retention p/a that Detroit took on to trade Kindl? And how much more or less was it than the suggested $2,000,000 retention on Howard?

3. Where were they anticipating picking when they traded top picks for Quincey and were they facing down the retirement of one of the greatest defenseman of all time when they executed the deal?

4. Was the big money UFA defenseman they spent big money on a long-term commitment? And was it to a defenseman who was coming off a year playing in the top half of his team's defensive roster or the bottom half?