Post-Game Talk: This... Sucks. Leafs 2, Sabres 3

[Gallagbi]

Just because a previous Ref called it wrong many years ago, doesn't mean a different Ref yesterday is obligated to call it wrong again when the NHL Rule book specifically states that if contact with the puck occurs first its a valid NHL play.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying consistency officiating in the NHL is a huge concern. Anyone who watches games regularly knows this. Last night it hurt the Leafs, other times it's helped them.

It's incorrectly called on a regular basis as well, Colaiacovo is just the easiest example since he was known for those diving plays.

 

[Lebanese Leaf]

I waited until this morning to gather some rational thoughts, and here is what I honestly believe now:

- Paul Ranger is a garbage player who takes the worst penalties and does not deserve to be on this team, certainly not over Rielly

- James Reimer looked like **** and the 2nd goal he gave up was just a horrible horrible inexcusable rebound. All game long I got the same vibe from Reimer that I did in the final 10 mins against Boston in game 7... just uncomfortable and going to collapse.

- Carlyle is a bad coach and has lost my respect. I would be advocating to fire him if there was any candidates available to replace him. It is totally pathetic to continue to be outshot and play so undisciplined defensively, especially against Buffalo, and ESPECIALLY after the Pens game when you have something to prove.

 

[KuleminFan41]

There is absolutely no way Ranger is better defensively than Rielly.

Ranger is extremely horrid and makes stupid plays continuously.

Apart from last nights game, which mistakes did he make?

 

[Al14]

Just because a previous Ref called it wrong many years ago, doesn't mean a different Ref yesterday is obligated to call it wrong again when the NHL Rule book specifically states that if contact with the puck occurs first its a valid NHL play.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

Exactly! Thanks Mess. I have been severely frustrated from some of the posters on here. The JVR non-call was the correct call last night! I wanted a penalty call too, however, after seeing the replay, the correct call on the ice was made under the NHL tripping rule.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Just because a previous Ref called it wrong many years ago, doesn't mean a different Ref yesterday is obligated to call it wrong again when the NHL Rule book specifically states that if contact with the puck occurs first its a valid NHL play.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

We have also seen the call made correctly many times when the player takes out the players skates without touching the puck. In fact had D'Agostini taken out JVR without touching the puck a Penalty shot could have been rewarded on the play as JVR was on a breakaway.

The problem with the penalty is that in regular play, they call it a trip. Its an odd rule , I'm not complaining about it its just weird

 

[Mess]

I'm not saying that. I'm saying consistency officiating in the NHL is a huge concern. Anyone who watches games regularly knows this. Last night it hurt the Leafs, other times it's helped them.

It's incorrectly called on a regular basis as well, Colaiacovo is just the easiest example since he was known for those diving plays.

Last night the correct call hurt the Leafs ? But the Call was correct yesterday, so where is the problem other than it would have been great had JVR scored or drawn a penalty on the play from a Leaf fan perspective?.

Refs make incorrect calls all the time but that is irrelevant in this case because they got it right, so unfortunately for us Leaf fans they didn't get it wrong. So we really don't have any case here to blame the Ref on the play. If the Refs did get it wrong and Leafs won the game on the play then Sabre fans would have had a valid reffing complaint costing them the game.

Refs called a penalty on Malkin late in their game yesterday for a tucked jersey. While it might have seemed like a bad call or bad timing its still in the rule book now and can therefore be called by a Ref.

 

[stealth1]

With a record like that I am surprised so many Leaf fans go to the game there. You have a great chance that you will see your team lose. The worst part of it it seems is how classless the Leaf fans that go to the Buffalo games are. I have been to other games where Leaf fans are and they are a lot nicer. Throwing full cans of beer on the ice after the game is very classless. Steve Ott said it best.

Steve Ott ‏@otterN9NE 12h

Thanks to the Toronto fans that donated their Tall Boys, we had the trainers grab them for a nice day off. #Classy

 

[Mess]

The problem with the penalty is that in regular play, they call it a trip. Its an odd rule , I'm not complaining about it its just weird

If the Leafs need a Ref assisted wrong call on the play in order to defeat the 30th ranked NHL team then we have a bigger underlying issue here.

Relying on bad calls in your favour is not something a fan should really be hoping for so their team wins. Its much better if the win is clean and calls are correct for the integrity of the game.

 

[Durrr]

I have no idea how people think the correct call on JVR was nothing. That is almost always a 2 minute penalty. Watch it slowed down, clearly making contact with jvr's legs around the same time the puck is touched.

 

[leafs in five]

I'm resisting the temptation to comment on this game, the breaks will even out calls wise as the season goes on.

That's it.

teams tends to take penalties when the opposition is controlling the puck. it is pretty hard to draw penalties when you are constantly under siege in your own zone. if the Leafs want some calls they need to improve their play drastically.

acknowledging that of course there is nothing whatsoever wrong with how the Leafs are playing, given that they are in a playoff spot. and i mean this team looks great when you watch them so it's puzzling that they aren't winning anymore. i think they are losing due to bad luck what do you think?

 

[leafs in five]

I have no idea how people think the correct call on JVR was nothing. That is almost always a 2 minute penalty. Watch it slowed down, clearly making contact with jvr's legs around the same time the puck is touched.

could have been a call for sure. it often is, which doesn't mean it would have been the correct call. in any event if the Leafs controlled the puck more often you can bet pretty safely that more of these types of plays would result, and that some of them would be called and result in a Leafs PP.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

teams tends to take penalties when the opposition is controlling the puck. it is pretty hard to draw penalties when you are constantly under siege in your own zone. if the Leafs want some calls they need to improve their play drastically.

acknowledging that of course there is nothing whatsoever wrong with how the Leafs are playing, given that they are in a playoff spot. and i mean this team looks great when you watch them so it's puzzling that they aren't winning anymore. i think they are losing due to bad luck what do you think?

The timing of ref calls and non calls has been very evident the past 2 games. 2 points could have been easily 4 points. What is lost in the doom and gloom here is it took a shoot out and OT for one very good team to beat us, and one not so good a team to do so. Saying that this team could improve in certain areas. Somewhere in between us being very bad as one reads here after a lost and the bad breaks we have been getting lies the truth. One win, and this forum has this team as heroes again.

 

[JAMmer124]

Exactly! Thanks Mess. I have been severely frustrated from some of the posters on here. The JVR non-call was the correct call last night! I wanted a penalty call too, however, after seeing the replay, the correct call on the ice was made under the NHL tripping rule.

Yep, the correct call was made and that official did his job properly. Now, should the rule be that? I'm not so sure, BUT according to the rulebook, D'Agostini did nothing wrong.

 

[Erdinger]

If the Leafs need a Ref assisted wrong call on the play in order to defeat the 30th ranked NHL team then we have a bigger underlying issue here.

Relying on bad calls in your favour is not something a fan should really be hoping for so their team wins. Its much better if the win is clean and calls are correct for the integrity of the game.

Very true. But it would be nice to be a team like the Pens that get a leg up on everybody else and I mean everybody else in the NHL.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs were once again outshot and outplayed and the puck possession and scoring chances favoured the Sabres.

Even if we could claim this was a pretty evenly played game, what is that really saying about the Leafs as their opponent is sitting 30th overall in the NHL standings?

I think Nonis has to do something to change up the player personnel as the Leafs have been trending in the wrong direction for a long period now. Losing 8 of their 12 games in November and heading into a tough part of the schedule in December could see this season slipping away quickly. US Thanksgiving is usually the time at which moves start happening as teams have a pretty good assessment now of 25 games to know what they have.

 

[Duffman955]

The Leafs were once again outshot and outplayed and the puck possession and scoring chances favoured the Sabres.

Even if we could claim this was a pretty evenly played game, what is that really saying about the Leafs as their opponent is sitting 30th overall in the NHL standings?

I think Nonis has to do something to change up the player personnel as the Leafs have been trending in the wrong direction for a long period now. Losing 8 of their 12 games in November and heading into a tough part of the schedule in December could see this season slipping away quickly. US Thanksgiving is usually the time at which moves start happening as teams have a pretty good assessment now of 25 games to know what they have.

Agreed. A team that hopes to make the playoffs should make easy work of the sabres. I know Sharks and kings also lost to them, but I think we are the only team in the league to lose twice to the 30th place team.

We are on a losing streak and if it continues, playoffs may be out of reach.

 

[Erdinger]

I think Nonis has to do something to change up the player personnel as the Leafs have been trending in the wrong direction for a long period now. Losing 8 of their 12 games in November and heading into a tough part of the schedule in December could see this season slipping away quickly. US Thanksgiving is usually the time at which moves start happening as teams have a pretty good assessment now of 25 games to know what they have.

It needs to be multiple changes. The team D is scary. Obviously it's the wrong players for Carlyle's system and since he won't change it Nonis will have to make changes.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Reimer's goaltending was whack in this game. It was hilarious and scary watching him play last night.

 

[Duffman955]

Reimer's goaltending was whack in this game. It was hilarious and scary watching him play last night.

Yep, he looked horrible on both goals. I don't know why he was behind the net in the 1st goal, or kicked a routine save into the slot for the second gaol

 

[Eb]

I waited until this morning to gather some rational thoughts, and here is what I honestly believe now:

- Paul Ranger is a garbage player who takes the worst penalties and does not deserve to be on this team, certainly not over Rielly

- James Reimer looked like **** and the 2nd goal he gave up was just a horrible horrible inexcusable rebound. All game long I got the same vibe from Reimer that I did in the final 10 mins against Boston in game 7... just uncomfortable and going to collapse.

- Carlyle is a bad coach and has lost my respect. I would be advocating to fire him if there was any candidates available to replace him. It is totally pathetic to continue to be outshot and play so undisciplined defensively, especially against Buffalo, and ESPECIALLY after the Pens game when you have something to prove.

You took a full night and you couldn't look at the highlights? Reimer did not even touch it. It deflected of the Buff or TOR player in front of the net.

 

[Hurt]

GDT is up for tonight's game.

 

[leafs in five]

One win, and this forum has this team as heroes again.

what you don't ever seem to understand is that this is your attitude toward the Leafs. this is how you conclude that the Leafs are a good (or better than good?) team: wins. they win, therefore they are good. they made the playoffs last year, therefore Carlyle is a good coach, therefore the players he prefers over others are the correct players to prefer, therefore the guys who "fit" his system, fit in with the wildly successful Leafs, are the right guys to sign up long term. any indications that they aren't good can be dismissed on the grounds that they are winning games.

and sure enough when the Leafs were winning, many folks around here and around their mothers' basements, said they were overachieving. they were receiving otherworldly goaltending that it wasn't reasonable to expect to remain as strong through 82 games. they were being outplayed on most nights, outshot sometimes 2-1 in games, going 10-15 mins without managing a shot. and your response be something like: they are winning, "i'll take winning games over compiling stats any day." wins and losses are what matter, not some poolie's spreadsheet numbers.

so how come the inverse is not true? how come wins and losses are all that matter when they win, even when they don't seem to deserve to win, but when they lose you can point to bad calls, bad bounces, bad breaks, to try to explain it? people who do the same in wins - use stats or the eye test to argue that the Leafs are not really setting themselves up to be consistently successful with the way they play - are missing the point, because wins and losses are all that matter.

basing your opinion of a team solely on record almost makes it necessary to change your opinion of them throughout the season, to call guys heroes when they win and losers when they lose. if it doesn't matter if the Leafs consistently play poorly in games they win, why should it matter if they play well in games they lose? (not that they ever really play well in games they lose. maybe the first Boston game was a case like this.)

 

[Wendelstache]

Really? I remember Armstrong being pretty immobile. Clarkson has decent wheels for his size.

Really, that explains why Clarkson is always falling down half the time.

The man doesn't skate very well.

 

[bunjay]

Agreed. A team that hopes to make the playoffs should make easy work of the sabres. I know Sharks and kings also lost to them, but I think we are the only team in the league to lose twice to the 30th place team.

We are on a losing streak and if it continues, playoffs may be out of reach.

Sharks and Kings lost to Buffalo in the shootout. This used to be known as a tie.

 

[bunjay]

In fact Buffalo has only 3 wins in either regulation or overtimes in 27 games. Two of those wins were against Toronto, the other was against Florida.