This is why a cap neccessary

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

Is this a result of the CBA or poor management? Vancouver has been through the rebuild without having to sacrafice its best players and developed rookies (see Mattius Ohlund). Would this have also been the case for Calgary if this lockout didn't happen?

I hear what you are saying, but Vancouver got very fortunate that it's core players of Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovonavski, Ohlund, and then Morrison turned out for them. Many didn't belive they would.

In Calgary the Flames MVP was not Iginla but Sutter. He was phenomenal and outcoached every coach. Their lack of talent caught up to them in game 7, which sucks.

Bottom line is, do the players truly think the NHL can survive with only 10-15 fianacially strong francises, or with 30 fianancially strong. They will say 30, but they know that there will always be 5 to 10 owners who will open up the pocket books, making it harder for the other 20 to keep pace.

Now is that financially responsible? Is that what the players want?

 

[CarlRacki]

OK let's take a statistical look at all 4 major sport for the last 5 years

NFL 7 teams have filled 10 Superbowl championships, but there have only been 13 teams in the 20 conference championships.

NBA 5 teams have filled 10 championship spots, and there have only 13 teams fill 20 conference spots

MLB 8 teams have filled 10 World Series positions, and again there have been 13 teams in 20 conference positions

NHL 8 teams have filled 10 championship spots, however there have been 16 teams in 20 conference championship spots.

So statistically using 5 years of historic data the NHL has the best competative balance of all the major sports. The NBA and NFL have the poorest Championship record of the 4 major sports. Until you can use statistical proof to prove otherwise, I will beleive that your opinion is a knee jerk reaction, without proof.

That's a very limited definition of competitiveness. You'd have a hard time convincing many Flames, Sabres, Hurricanes and Ducks fans their teams have been competitive over the past five years because they've appeared in the Conference Finals. Combined they have a whole six playoff appearances in the last five years. Call me crazy, but that's not all that competitive.

A more accurate determination of competitiveness is playoff appearances. And in that category, the NHL and MLB are well behind the NFL.

I've detailed those disparities in prior posts. Here they are if you care to peruse them:

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2406237&postcount=64

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2406723&postcount=89

 

[bhawk24bob]

As long as you have teams with incredibly diverse budgets, the league will continue to be unfair. Who the hell wants a league where 40% of the teams never have a chance. The NHLPA of course wants the same deal baseball has and points to it as a success. Baseball is the worse example of sports system and it will come crashing down in 2006. It has become absolutely ridiculous. When studying economics there is always talk about how governments raise money through taxes. It's always better to broaden the tax base then to raise taxes to a higher level. Create an environment through low taxes where more business are able to open up. It's the same in sports. Is it better to have fewer teams of higher paid players? I think a league is healthier if there are more teams competing. The track the NHLPA wants to go down is a system where salaries keep spiralling out of control and the risk of losing some teams is not a concern. I find it crazy that this association doesn't care that they could lose 50-100 members through contraction. Keeping as many players employed should be their first concern.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MoneyMatters/2005/01/28/913366-ap.html

there's something fairly significant i've been noticing through this lockout, and it's especially coming from canadian fans. let me try to spell this out- the intention of this lockout is not to make teams in the smaller markets better. it's about making more money.

 

[vanlady]

I hear what you are saying, but Vancouver got very fortunate that it's core players of Naslund, Bertuzzi, Jovonavski, Ohlund, and then Morrison turned out for them. Many didn't belive they would.

In Calgary the Flames MVP was not Iginla but Sutter. He was phenomenal and outcoached every coach. Their lack of talent caught up to them in game 7, which sucks.

Bottom line is, do the players truly think the NHL can survive with only 10-15 fianacially strong francises, or with 30 fianancially strong. They will say 30, but they know that there will always be 5 to 10 owners who will open up the pocket books, making it harder for the other 20 to keep pace.

Now is that financially responsible? Is that what the players want?

Ahhh but that is where I think the players are on track. If the league was to institute a draconinan revenue sharing plan that takes into account all common revenues, something along the lines of 90%, and only leaves teams the ability to earn extra income from tax breaks, lotteries and inovative marketing of unique merchandise, there would be no have teams. Unfortunately in the NFL teams have been circumventing the cap every time the league plugs one hole the owners find another, look no further than back loaded contracts. The NHL has the same history look to the abuse of the rookie cap for that. If the teams don't have the money to spend by having all the revenues being put into one pot at the league offices, teams will not have the financial resources to circumvent a cap.

 

[CarlRacki]

Ahhh but that is where I think the players are on track. If the league was to institute a draconinan revenue sharing plan that takes into account all common revenues, something along the lines of 90%, and only leaves teams the ability to earn extra income from tax breaks, lotteries and inovative marketing of unique merchandise, there would be no have teams. Unfortunately in the NFL teams have been circumventing the cap every time the league plugs one hole the owners find another, look no further than back loaded contracts. The NHL has the same history look to the abuse of the rookie cap for that. If the teams don't have the money to spend by having all the revenues being put into one pot at the league offices, teams will not have the financial resources to circumvent a cap.

Explain why backloaded contracts are a "loophole."

 

[vanlady]

That's a very limited definition of competitiveness. You'd have a hard time convincing many Flames, Sabres, Hurricanes and Ducks fans their teams have been competitive over the past five years because they've appeared in the Conference Finals. Combined they have a whole six playoff appearances in the last five years. Call me crazy, but that's not all that competitive.

A more accurate determination of competitiveness is playoff appearances. And in that category, the NHL and MLB are well behind the NFL.

I've detailed those disparities in prior posts. Here they are if you care to peruse them:

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2406237&postcount=64

http://www.hfboards.com/showpost.php?p=2406723&postcount=89

OK this is where everyones contention that a team only making the first round every year will lead to doom and gloom for the franchise goes out the window then. If financial success is determined by the amount of times you make it deep into the playoffs, then the NFL has the worst competative balance. There is no way in a league that is competatively balanced that sports reporters should be able to predict the outcome of the Championship before the season begins.

 

[CarlRacki]

OK this is where everyones contention that a team only making the first round every year will lead to doom and gloom for the franchise goes out the window then. If financial success is determined by the amount of times you make it deep into the playoffs, then the NFL has the worst competative balance. There is no way in a league that is competatively balanced that sports reporters should be able to predict the outcome of the Championship before the season begins.

Yes, many sports reporters picked Carolina for the Super Bowl last year. And everybody had an Oakland-Tampa Bay Super Bowl before that. And who can forget the sure thing NE-Rams matchup in 2001? Certainly we couldn't forget how many sports writers just knew Kurt Warner would come from obscurity and lead the Rams to the 1999 Super Bowl. And despite having never had a winning record previously every sports writer picked the Ravens to take the 2000 championship.
Sheesh.

 

[likea]

OK let's take a statistical look at all 4 major sport for the last 5 years

NFL 7 teams have filled 10 Superbowl championships, but there have only been 13 teams in the 20 conference championships.

NBA 5 teams have filled 10 championship spots, and there have only 13 teams fill 20 conference spots

MLB 8 teams have filled 10 World Series positions, and again there have been 13 teams in 20 conference positions

NHL 8 teams have filled 10 championship spots, however there have been 16 teams in 20 conference championship spots.

So statistically using 5 years of historic data the NHL has the best competative balance of all the major sports. The NBA and NFL have the poorest Championship record of the 4 major sports. Until you can use statistical proof to prove otherwise, I will beleive that your opinion is a knee jerk reaction, without proof.

here are the top 15 teams in the NHL in spending

11 out of 15 made the playoffs
or 73% of the teams with a payroll over 40 million made the playoff

1. Detroit Red Wings $77,856,100
2. New York Rangers $76,488,750
3. Dallas Stars $68,578,900
4. Philadelphia Flyers $68,175,250
5. Colorado Avalanche $63,382,450
6. Toronto Maple Leafs $62,458,140
7. St. Louis Blues $61,675,000
8. Los Angeles Kings $53,833,800
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks $53,296,750
10. Washington Capitals $50,895,750
11. New Jersey Devils $48,931,700
12. Boston Bruins $46,569,000
13. Vancouver Canucks $42,074,500
14. New York Islanders $40,865,500
15. Ottawa Senators $39,590,000

we can count the Kings if you would like but to be honest they didn't spend over 40 million in payroll because alot of their top players had insurance and the kings got 2/3's of it back

Washington, it can be argued didn't have nearly a 53 million dollar payroll by the end of the year and prob didn't pay over 40 the whole year but we will include them

here are the bottom 15

16. Phoenix Coyotes $39,249,750
17. Montreal Canadiens $38,857,000
18. Calgary Flames $36,402,600
19. Carolina Hurricanes $35,908,750
20. San Jose Sharks $34,455,000
21. Tampa Bay Lightning $34,065,450
22. Columbus Blue Jackets $34,000,000
23. Edmonton Oilers $33,375,000
24. Buffalo Sabres $32,954,250
25. Chicago Blackhawks $30,867,500
26. Atlanta Thrashers $28,547,500
27. Minnesota Wild $27,200,500
28. Florida Panthers $26,127,500
29. Pittsburgh Penguins $23,400,000
30. Nashville Predators $21,932,500


5 out of 15 made the playoffs

or 33% of the bottom 15 teams

look at the difference 10 million dollars makes


teams that spend more money are consistantly better than the teams that do not spend more money and they have a huge advantage in hockey...this is why

in 2002-2003

top 15 teams in payroll

11 out of 15 made the playoffs

bottom 15- 5 out of 15


2001-2002

again 11 out of the top 15 in payroll made the playoffs
that means 5 of the top 15 did also and the percentages stay the same

2000-2001

13 out of the top 15 made the playoffs

86%

therefore 3 of the bottom 15


20%


imagine if your a small market team not able to spend what the big teams spend

you only have 3-5 playoff spots available to you because the other spots are already taken

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF HOCKEY DECISIONS...hows that for you

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

there's something fairly significant i've been noticing through this lockout, and it's especially coming from canadian fans. let me try to spell this out- the intention of this lockout is not to make teams in the smaller markets better. it's about making more money.

You are wrong.

It is about making small market teams fianancially viable so that the league will have a healthy 30 team league.

It is about preventing 5 or 6 teams for setting player market values for 24 other teams that cannot afford to pay the "current market value."

That is what this lock out is about. If you think otherwise you know not what you talk about.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

There is no way in a league that is competatively balanced that sports reporters should be able to predict the outcome of the Championship before the season begins.

I know you said the NFL but the prediction is of MLB. And really, only the Yankees and Red Sox matter in the American League. Sure the twins or White sox will win their division, but serously if they make it to the WS it is because the Yanks or Sox choked.

Really the only league the NHL can look at is MLB, and that is because the players opened that can of worms and said, and I quote from Trevor Linden, "Baseball has a system that works, and we should look at that."

A system that works....

 

[bhawk24bob]

You are wrong.

It is about making small market teams fianancially viable so that the league will have a healthy 30 team league.

It is about preventing 5 or 6 teams for setting player market values for 24 other teams that cannot afford to pay the "current market value."

That is what this lock out is about. If you think otherwise you know not what you talk about.

no, this lockout is taking place to put more money in the owners' pockets. financially viable doesnt mean competitive.

 

[Balk]

OK let's take a statistical look at all 4 major sport for the last 5 years

NFL 7 teams have filled 10 Superbowl championships, but there have only been 13 teams in the 20 conference championships.

NBA 5 teams have filled 10 championship spots, and there have only 13 teams fill 20 conference spots

MLB 8 teams have filled 10 World Series positions, and again there have been 13 teams in 20 conference positions

NHL 8 teams have filled 10 championship spots, however there have been 16 teams in 20 conference championship spots.

So statistically using 5 years of historic data the NHL has the best competative balance of all the major sports. The NBA and NFL have the poorest Championship record of the 4 major sports. Until you can use statistical proof to prove otherwise, I will beleive that your opinion is a knee jerk reaction, without proof.

maybe the reason that the NHL is competitive in the playoffs is that the refs do NOT call penalties which evens out the playing field. If the refs called the game by the book then the more talented teams would thrive and would prevent runs by Carolina, Anaheim, and Calgary. This would create a more exciting brand of hockey too.

The only reason the playoffs are so competitive is due to the clutching and grabbing that occurs. Otherwise we would see the top teams coming in the final the majority of the time.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

no, this lockout is taking place to put more money in the owners' pockets. financially viable doesnt mean competitive.

Bull cockies my friend. It is entirely about 30 healthy teams because 30 healthy teams means 30 healthy owners who don't sell out because they are losing money. You ask Karamnos in Carolina, or the 30 owners in Edmonton, or Gretzky and Lemieux.

Yes it is about getting money, but it is about getting a protion that is owed to them, not just the players.

If you invested 200 million dollars, whouldn't you want a peice of the pie back?

And btw, I never said anything about team competetiveness... just fianancial viability.

 

[Balk]

here are the top 15 teams in the NHL in spending

11 out of 15 made the playoffs
or 73% of the teams with a payroll over 40 million made the playoff

1. Detroit Red Wings $77,856,100
2. New York Rangers $76,488,750
3. Dallas Stars $68,578,900
4. Philadelphia Flyers $68,175,250
5. Colorado Avalanche $63,382,450
6. Toronto Maple Leafs $62,458,140
7. St. Louis Blues $61,675,000
8. Los Angeles Kings $53,833,800
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks $53,296,750
10. Washington Capitals $50,895,750
11. New Jersey Devils $48,931,700
12. Boston Bruins $46,569,000
13. Vancouver Canucks $42,074,500
14. New York Islanders $40,865,500
15. Ottawa Senators $39,590,000

we can count the Kings if you would like but to be honest they didn't spend over 40 million in payroll because alot of their top players had insurance and the kings got 2/3's of it back

Washington, it can be argued didn't have nearly a 53 million dollar payroll by the end of the year and prob didn't pay over 40 the whole year but we will include them

here are the bottom 15

16. Phoenix Coyotes $39,249,750
17. Montreal Canadiens $38,857,000
18. Calgary Flames $36,402,600
19. Carolina Hurricanes $35,908,750
20. San Jose Sharks $34,455,000
21. Tampa Bay Lightning $34,065,450
22. Columbus Blue Jackets $34,000,000
23. Edmonton Oilers $33,375,000
24. Buffalo Sabres $32,954,250
25. Chicago Blackhawks $30,867,500
26. Atlanta Thrashers $28,547,500
27. Minnesota Wild $27,200,500
28. Florida Panthers $26,127,500
29. Pittsburgh Penguins $23,400,000
30. Nashville Predators $21,932,500


5 out of 15 made the playoffs

or 33% of the bottom 15 teams

look at the difference 10 million dollars makes


teams that spend more money are consistantly better than the teams that do not spend more money and they have a huge advantage in hockey...this is why

in 2002-2003

top 15 teams in payroll

11 out of 15 made the playoffs

bottom 15- 5 out of 15


2001-2002

again 11 out of the top 15 in payroll made the playoffs
that means 5 of the top 15 did also and the percentages stay the same

2000-2001

13 out of the top 15 made the playoffs

86%

therefore 3 of the bottom 15


20%


imagine if your a small market team not able to spend what the big teams spend

you only have 3-5 playoff spots available to you because the other spots are already taken

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF HOCKEY DECISIONS...hows that for you

Great post!!!

It really highlights the difference that money makes.

 

[kerrly]

no, this lockout is taking place to put more money in the owners' pockets. financially viable doesnt mean competitive.

No but an even playing field will mean the ability to be successful is essentially the same as any other market throughout the league. And please quit making narrow minded comments about Canadians and their motivations behind this. You are also the one who said Chicago is a more important hockey market than any Canadian market outside of the Leafs.

 

[Hasbro]

That is the most asinine comment I have ver heard. Do you really believe the crap your spewing?!?!

Quebec moved because the ownership could make more money in Colorado. And remember that the Avs came into a market craving a winner. The Broncos, and Rockies had not provided that.

Aubut sold the team to comsat under the asumption that he wouldn't be able to make money without the new arena. Comsat made the offer in the old rival suitor game for Quebec's backing in getting an expansion team. They were surprised when Quebec gave in. I'm sure if the Nords had stayed there without a new arena you would have seen the talent stripping that happened to the other Canadian franchises.

When the team moved the Broncos were on the verge of their great run, the baseball Rockies were in the playoffs and the Nuggets had a promising team that upset the Sonics a year before. So "craving a winner" is overstating things a bit there.

During the first Cup year the Avs were one of the lower payroll teams, mainly because they were young and look how high the payroll got. When they were at McNichols revenue wasn't that great which led the Rag$ to make that offer to Sakic under the assumption the team couldn't match. While they were holding out for the new arena some cost cutting moves were made with the lower end of the roster.

 

[CarlRacki]

financially viable doesnt mean competitive.

That is true. A financially viable team managed poorly will not be competitive (see: Rangers, New York).
But what is also true is that a team managed well cannot be consistently competitive if not financially viable. If and when smaller revenue teams develop star players, they eventually will have to trade them or let them leave via free agency because they are no longer affordable.

I know it's a different sport, but the greatest example of this is the Oakland A's. There's no better GM in any sport, IMO, than Billy Beane. He's drafted and/or developed two AL MVPs (Giambi, Tejada), two AL rookies of the year (Grieve, Crosby), an All-Star, Gold Golve third baseman (Chavez) and three 20-game winners, one of which has won a Cy Young. By all rights, the A's should be the best team in baseball.
However, baseball economics thinks otherwise. The A's couldn't meet rivals' offers for Giambi or Tejada and this off-season had to trade Mark Mulder and Tim Hudson for financial reasons. This would never happen in the NFL or NBA because both have systems that allow teams to keep their best players without breaking the bank.

 

[Biggest Canuck Fan]

Aubut sold the team to comsat under the asumption that he wouldn't be able to make money without the new arena. Comsat made the offer in the old rival suitor game for Quebec's backing in getting an expansion team. They were surprised when Quebec gave in. I'm sure if the Nords had stayed there without a new arena you would have seen the talent stripping that happened to the other Canadian franchises.

When the team moved the Broncos were on the verge of their great run, the baseball Rockies were in the playoffs and the Nuggets had a promising team that upset the Sonics a year before. So "craving a winner" is overstating things a bit there.

During the first Cup year the Avs were one of the lower payroll teams, mainly because they were young and look how high the payroll got. When they were at McNichols revenue wasn't that great which led the Rag$ to make that offer to Sakic under the assumption the team couldn't match. While they were holding out for the new arena some cost cutting moves were made with the lower end of the roster.

I tend to forget... what did Sakic say in 96... OH YEAH!!!

Sakic: "Denver, how does it feel to be a city of Champions?!?!"

And let's not forget the Avs announcer: Denver has its first professional Sports champion"

Don't come off so self righteouss cause that city was starving for a winner.

On A side note I was so pleased for Elway, the greatest QB in NFL history!

Bottom line I know what your saying, and usually I agree with you...

The players have to understand that ownership is entitled to an amount, so are the players... this more than anything is the problem... what amount is either side entitled too.

 

[ColinM]

The difference between Baseball and Hockey is that Hockey has tighter free agency which depresses salaries for players under the age of 31.

 

[vanlady]

here are the top 15 teams in the NHL in spending

11 out of 15 made the playoffs
or 73% of the teams with a payroll over 40 million made the playoff

1. Detroit Red Wings $77,856,100
2. New York Rangers $76,488,750
3. Dallas Stars $68,578,900
4. Philadelphia Flyers $68,175,250
5. Colorado Avalanche $63,382,450
6. Toronto Maple Leafs $62,458,140
7. St. Louis Blues $61,675,000
8. Los Angeles Kings $53,833,800
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks $53,296,750
10. Washington Capitals $50,895,750
11. New Jersey Devils $48,931,700
12. Boston Bruins $46,569,000
13. Vancouver Canucks $42,074,500
14. New York Islanders $40,865,500
15. Ottawa Senators $39,590,000

we can count the Kings if you would like but to be honest they didn't spend over 40 million in payroll because alot of their top players had insurance and the kings got 2/3's of it back

Washington, it can be argued didn't have nearly a 53 million dollar payroll by the end of the year and prob didn't pay over 40 the whole year but we will include them

here are the bottom 15

16. Phoenix Coyotes $39,249,750
17. Montreal Canadiens $38,857,000
18. Calgary Flames $36,402,600
19. Carolina Hurricanes $35,908,750
20. San Jose Sharks $34,455,000
21. Tampa Bay Lightning $34,065,450
22. Columbus Blue Jackets $34,000,000
23. Edmonton Oilers $33,375,000
24. Buffalo Sabres $32,954,250
25. Chicago Blackhawks $30,867,500
26. Atlanta Thrashers $28,547,500
27. Minnesota Wild $27,200,500
28. Florida Panthers $26,127,500
29. Pittsburgh Penguins $23,400,000
30. Nashville Predators $21,932,500


5 out of 15 made the playoffs

or 33% of the bottom 15 teams

look at the difference 10 million dollars makes


teams that spend more money are consistantly better than the teams that do not spend more money and they have a huge advantage in hockey...this is why

in 2002-2003

top 15 teams in payroll

11 out of 15 made the playoffs

bottom 15- 5 out of 15


2001-2002

again 11 out of the top 15 in payroll made the playoffs
that means 5 of the top 15 did also and the percentages stay the same

2000-2001

13 out of the top 15 made the playoffs

86%

therefore 3 of the bottom 15


20%


imagine if your a small market team not able to spend what the big teams spend

you only have 3-5 playoff spots available to you because the other spots are already taken

THIS IS NOT BECAUSE OF HOCKEY DECISIONS...hows that for you

How about we break it down even further, let's break it down into 1/3

Top ten
1. Detroit Red Wings $77,856,100
2. New York Rangers $76,488,750
3. Dallas Stars $68,578,900
4. Philadelphia Flyers $68,175,250
5. Colorado Avalanche $63,382,450
6. Toronto Maple Leafs $62,458,140
7. St. Louis Blues $61,675,000
8. Los Angeles Kings $53,833,800
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks $53,296,750
10. Washington Capitals $50,895,750

Only 6 of these teams made the playoffs

The Middle 1/3
11. New Jersey Devils $48,931,700
12. Boston Bruins $46,569,000
13. Vancouver Canucks $42,074,500
14. New York Islanders $40,865,500
15. Ottawa Senators $39,590,000
16. Phoenix Coyotes $39,249,750
17. Montreal Canadiens $38,857,000
18. Calgary Flames $36,402,600
19. Carolina Hurricanes $35,908,750
20. San Jose Sharks $34,455,000

8 out of 10 of these teams made the playoffs

Bottom 1/3
21. Tampa Bay Lightning $34,065,450
22. Columbus Blue Jackets $34,000,000
23. Edmonton Oilers $33,375,000
24. Buffalo Sabres $32,954,250
25. Chicago Blackhawks $30,867,500
26. Atlanta Thrashers $28,547,500
27. Minnesota Wild $27,200,500
28. Florida Panthers $26,127,500
29. Pittsburgh Penguins $23,400,000
30. Nashville Predators $21,932,500

2 out of 10 of these teams made the playoffs, Nashville, Columbus, Minnesota and Atlanta have been in the league for less than 6 years and are experiencing growing pains, instant success is not and never been an attainable goal in pro sports. Houston a NFL expansion franchise has yet to see the playoff season in the NFL and has been in the NFL longer. However 2 of these 4 have seen playoff exposure and with a healthy Heatly Atalnta is likely to see the playoffs soon.

This is common through out NHL history, the middle ground teams have been successful in the last 10 years not the top 10 teams.

PS if you take out Washington and LA you also have to take out Vancouver, because Bertuzzi's salary was being paid to the Players emergency fund.

 

[likea]

How about we break it down even further, let's break it down into 1/3

Top ten
1. Detroit Red Wings $77,856,100
2. New York Rangers $76,488,750
3. Dallas Stars $68,578,900
4. Philadelphia Flyers $68,175,250
5. Colorado Avalanche $63,382,450
6. Toronto Maple Leafs $62,458,140
7. St. Louis Blues $61,675,000
8. Los Angeles Kings $53,833,800
9. Anaheim Mighty Ducks $53,296,750
10. Washington Capitals $50,895,750

Only 6 of these teams made the playoffs

The Middle 1/3
11. New Jersey Devils $48,931,700
12. Boston Bruins $46,569,000
13. Vancouver Canucks $42,074,500
14. New York Islanders $40,865,500
15. Ottawa Senators $39,590,000
16. Phoenix Coyotes $39,249,750
17. Montreal Canadiens $38,857,000
18. Calgary Flames $36,402,600
19. Carolina Hurricanes $35,908,750
20. San Jose Sharks $34,455,000

8 out of 10 of these teams made the playoffs

Bottom 1/3
21. Tampa Bay Lightning $34,065,450
22. Columbus Blue Jackets $34,000,000
23. Edmonton Oilers $33,375,000
24. Buffalo Sabres $32,954,250
25. Chicago Blackhawks $30,867,500
26. Atlanta Thrashers $28,547,500
27. Minnesota Wild $27,200,500
28. Florida Panthers $26,127,500
29. Pittsburgh Penguins $23,400,000
30. Nashville Predators $21,932,500

2 out of 10 of these teams made the playoffs, Nashville, Columbus, Minnesota and Atlanta have been in the league for less than 6 years and are experiencing growing pains, instant success is not and never been an attainable goal in pro sports. Houston a NFL expansion franchise has yet to see the playoff season in the NFL and has been in the NFL longer. However 2 of these 4 have seen playoff exposure and with a healthy Heatly Atalnta is likely to see the playoffs soon.

This is common through out NHL history, the middle ground teams have been successful in the last 10 years not the top 10 teams.

PS if you take out Washington and LA you also have to take out Vancouver, because Bertuzzi's salary was being paid to the Players emergency fund.

you just helped prove my point, its all about money

 

[CarlRacki]

This is common through out NHL history, the middle ground teams have been successful in the last 10 years not the top 10 teams.

.

That's one season. Why not do four like likea?

Here's what we'd find:

2003

Top 10 - Nine teams (Anaheim, Jersey, Dallas, Philly, Toronto, St. Lou, Colo., Wash., Detroit)
Middle 10 - Four teams (Ottawa, Vancouver, NY Islanders, Boston)
Bottom 10 - Three teams (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Edmonton)

2002

Top 10 - Seven teams
Middle 10 - Eight teams
Bottom 10 - One team

2001

Top 10 - Nine teams
Middle 10 - Five Teams
Bottom 10 - Two teams


Four-year total

Top 10 - 31
Middle 10 - 25
Bottom 10 - Eight
Apparently the middle 10 hasn't been as successful, relative to the top 10, as you would have us believe.

 

[likea]

and I did top 15 because their are 16 playoff spots

I wanted to know how the bottom 15 faired in getting one of the 16 playoff spots

most of the time there are 15 teams fighting for 5 spots

teams cannot build fanbases well that way...

who wants to watch their team win for 2 years and be out of it completely for 4

it sucks

 

[Hasbro]

I tend to forget... what did Sakic say in 96... OH YEAH!!!

Sakic: "Denver, how does it feel to be a city of Champions?!?!"

And let's not forget the Avs announcer: Denver has its first professional Sports champion"

Don't come off so self righteouss cause that city was starving for a winner.

On A side note I was so pleased for Elway, the greatest QB in NFL history!

Bottom line I know what your saying, and usually I agree with you...

The players have to understand that ownership is entitled to an amount, so are the players... this more than anything is the problem... what amount is either side entitled too.

Yeah I would have shot my mother for a championship at the time, but we had plenty of good memories before hand. And to our credit we did have 7 NCAA hockey championships and a Football championship before hand.

 

[vanlady]

That's one season. Why not do four like likea?

Here's what we'd find:

2003

Top 10 - Nine teams (Anaheim, Jersey, Dallas, Philly, Toronto, St. Lou, Colo., Wash., Detroit)
Middle 10 - Four teams (Ottawa, Vancouver, NY Islanders, Boston)
Bottom 10 - Three teams (Minnesota, Tampa Bay, Edmonton)

2002

Top 10 - Seven teams
Middle 10 - Eight teams
Bottom 10 - One team

2001

Top 10 - Nine teams
Middle 10 - Five Teams
Bottom 10 - Two teams


Four-year total

Top 10 - 31
Middle 10 - 25
Bottom 10 - Eight
Apparently the middle 10 hasn't been as successful, relative to the top 10, as you would have us believe.

Let's look at these by percentage
Top 10 47%
Middle 10 40%
Bottom 10 13%

Now lets look at the bottom ten in 00/01

Nashville, Columbus, Minnesota and Atlanta were in the league less than 5 years at this point, do you think teams should come into the league and make the playoffs the same year?

Calgary, Edmonton, Montreal and Vancouver were struggling with a dollar that was hovering around 60 cents and at one point this season the dollar dropped below that, so in Canadian dollars these payrolls are actually in the top 10.

The only 2 teams left, the Islanders and Tampa Bay were struggling with ownership issues, both franchises were sold in 99/00, and still recovering from the Spano and japanese mafia scandals.

Given these franchises time and a strong Canadian dollar things have begin to change dramatically in the last few years. This is pretty much the picture for the other years as well

Let's face it in hockey the top 10 teams in payroll are not owning the the playoffs the way many like to beleive.