Blue Jays Discussion: Things happening this winter! (Jays sign Ryu, Shaw)

[Cor]

That A.J. Burnett deal is still sublime.

Halladay-Burnett deserved better than the team that surrounded them

 

[TheBeastCoast]

It won't be if they're eating that much salary.

Eh still cant see it being anything that would really hurt but I'd rather let them eat less then actually pay in legit assets if it came to that.

 

[BlueForever75]

I still think the Jays need to trade for another pitcher that will be on the cheap. If its not Price then Happ. Adding one of these 2 to the rotation at a fraction of the cost would be a solid add.

As for OF, if they cannot get a Bradley or Benintendi in a Price deal OR a Frazier in a Happ deal. They need to acquire another OF. Depending on what they need to give up for one of those 2 pitchers I would be all in on Marte before looking at others in FA. I still like Calhoun and Dickerson as fall back FA. But I would target higher in Marte especially if we give up next to nothing for another pitcher. Pirates need a catcher, can use a replacement OF, throw in an INF like Smith who is repetitive considering the depth of prospects we have in organization and a lower level pitcher.

Catcher- McGuire

One of - McKinney, Fisher, Hernandez or Alford

INF - Smith

Pitcher - Anyone that isn't in our top 50 prospect list


FOR

Marte

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Poster asked if players usually play well into their mid 30's, used dickey (albeit a knuckleballer) being an older pitcher whom debatably had success at an older age then Ryu.

Ok. Whom they traded to acquire him, he being 38 at the time, and being a knuckleballer kind of makes it irrelevant. Not trying to be rude, just best to leave it out of the equation.

For the original asker of the question, here's the cumulative performance of all 33-36 year old starting pitchers over the last decade.

Major League Leaderboards » 2019 » Starters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

 

[kb]

How does this lineup look?

Bichette
Biggio
Vladdy
EE
Dickerson
Gurriel
Shaw
Grichuk
Jansen/McGuire

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Halladay-Burnett deserved better than the team that surrounded them

Very well said. The entire 2008 rotation did.

Eh still cant see it being anything that would really hurt but I'd rather let them eat less then actually pay in legit assets if it came to that.

If that was the case, I imagine the deal would likely be done already. Remember, they're attempting to do the deal principally to fix their tax threshold issue. Eating almost half of the cost defeats the purpose. Then, you have to consider that the acquisition price is only low because of the ticket attached. Remove the ticket, and it becomes more of a baseball deal. And if that's the case, then a 2.5 fWAR starter is costly. Main message here is you can't have it both ways; its going to cost in once sense or another.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

How does this lineup look?

Bichette
Biggio
Vladdy
EE
Dickerson
Gurriel
Shaw
Grichuk
Jansen/McGuire

Coherent.

 

[HockeyGuruPitka]

Ok. Whom they traded to acquire him, he being 38 at the time, and being a knuckleballer kind of makes it irrelevant. Not trying to be rude, just best to leave it out of the equation.

For the original asker of the question, here's the cumulative performance of all 33-36 year old starting pitchers over the last decade.

Major League Leaderboards » 2019 » Starters » Dashboard | FanGraphs Baseball

The trade has relevance being Jays have had interest in older pitchers in the past (different management group). Every example brings relevance, whether you chose to include or exclude certain information is up to you.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

Halladay-Burnett deserved better than the team that surrounded them

2006 still makes me angry. Josh Towers was 2-10 with an ERA over 8, and the rest of the team was 85-65.

Was probably their best chance in a long time to make the playoffs with those guys. Under the current system, one more pitcher might have been the difference in making the playoffs.

 

[Cor]

2006 still makes me angry. Josh Towers was 2-10 with an ERA over 8, and the rest of the team was 85-65.

Was probably their best chance in a long time to make the playoffs with those guys. Under the current system, one more pitcher might have been the difference in making the playoffs.

I can’t remember fully, was that the year we had Doc, AJ, Lilly and.... I forget the 4th guy all pitching extremely well and Towers was ass and JP never replaced him for some reason?

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

The trade has relevance being Jays have had interest in older pitchers in the past (different management group). Every example brings relevance, whether you chose to include or exclude certain information is up to you.

Wait. How does the acquisition of a 38 year old pitcher, by a GM who’s employed by another franchise, and a president who’s since retired, hold relevance to the question “are pitchers known for producing well into their mid-30’s?”

I’m genuinely confused.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Very well said. The entire 2008 rotation did.



If that was the case, I imagine the deal would likely be done already. Remember, they're attempting to do the deal principally to fix their tax threshold issue. Eating almost half of the cost defeats the purpose. Then, you have to consider that the acquisition price is only low because of the ticket attached. Remove the ticket, and it becomes more of a baseball deal. And if that's the case, then a 2.5 fWAR starter is costly. Main message here is you can't have it both ways; its going to cost in once sense or another.

That's all fair. I'm just not super keen on getting Price unless we are getting a killer deal out of it. 18ish at the max I just dont trust the arm issues he has been having. So if we can get him around 16-18 and we are dealing redundant prospect capital I'd be on board. Anything more then that and I'm good.

 

[IceColdBear]

Happy with this signing. Years 3/4 of the deal could be rough, but they may not be - we have a ton of payroll flexibility as it is.

Hopefully we're able to take a step forward this year - not much hope for the playoffs, but a .500 season would be a big improvement over last year.

If Vlad becomes the player we all think he can be, the Blue Jays could be relevant again quickly.

 

[theaub]

That A.J. Burnett deal is still sublime.

Based on the salary structure he doubled his salary in WAR $. Fantastic deal.

Of course, you get quotes like this at the time of the deal which seem hilarious now

Burnett was 12-12 with a 3.34 earned run average for the Marlins in 2005, which hardly seemed like the statistics associated with an $11-million-a-year pitcher

 

[theaub]

I can’t remember fully, was that the year we had Doc, AJ, Lilly and.... I forget the 4th guy all pitching extremely well and Towers was ass and JP never replaced him for some reason?

Chacin was the #4, and then Janssen and Marcum made a bunch of starts. They were all trash.

The 2008 team was way, way better than 2006, but they also played in what is likely the best single division ever in the wild card era (squeaking by the '15 NLC)

(quick edit on the 2008 AL East - based on run differential the entire division had an 88-74 pythag record, which is incredible).

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I can’t remember fully, was that the year we had Doc, AJ, Lilly and.... I forget the 4th guy all pitching extremely well and Towers was ass and JP never replaced him for some reason?

Gustavo Chacin was a rookie that year I believe, Casey Janssen started some, Shaun Marcum, Burnett a bunch starts with an injury so those 3 filled in for that and once Towers was finally replaced.

The offense was awesome that year and the back end of the pen was great with B.J. Ryan having a great year.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Wow, I get up late to this news. Sweet!!!

 

[Drew311]

I still think the Jays need to trade for another pitcher that will be on the cheap. If its not Price then Happ. Adding one of these 2 to the rotation at a fraction of the cost would be a solid add.

As for OF, if they cannot get a Bradley or Benintendi in a Price deal OR a Frazier in a Happ deal. They need to acquire another OF. Depending on what they need to give up for one of those 2 pitchers I would be all in on Marte before looking at others in FA. I still like Calhoun and Dickerson as fall back FA. But I would target higher in Marte especially if we give up next to nothing for another pitcher. Pirates need a catcher, can use a replacement OF, throw in an INF like Smith who is repetitive considering the depth of prospects we have in organization and a lower level pitcher.

Catcher- McGuire

One of - McKinney, Fisher, Hernandez or Alford

INF - Smith

Pitcher - Anyone that isn't in our top 50 prospect list


FOR

Marte

You don’t get Marte’s used jock strap for that package.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[canucksfan]

It is a risk but they didn't give up any assets to acquire him. There isn't much pitching left via free agency.

Don't have a problem at all with the signing. Wouldn't mind one more decent starter and a CF.

 

[MyBudJT]

I think the Jays are going to be a darkhorse this season... A lot of their young guys should be taking another step forward this year...

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

How does this lineup look?

Bichette
Biggio
Vladdy
EE
Dickerson
Gurriel
Shaw
Grichuk
Jansen/McGuire

I've never been a fan of Dickerson really but assuming all the young guys take a step forward and Shaw bounces back, it could be deadly.

 

[KuleminFan41]

Halladay-Burnett deserved better than the team that surrounded them

Those 3 years the Jays never had a losing season either, even finished 2nd in 06 with 87 wins.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I still have Chacin cologne

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I think the Jays are going to be a darkhorse this season... A lot of their young guys should be taking another step forward this year...

I think Vlad would have to go full MVP candidate Delgado for that to happen I think,but they should definitely be much more competitive this year. The pen needs a lot of work and we need some of the young pitchers to develop.