There is something seriously wrong with the culture of this team.

[mathonwy]

And we got outplayed by a much younger Calgary team in the first round

1-2-3-4... WD is an effing bore.

 

[Canucker]

Maybe you should take a step back and try to understand the other poster's point of view before accusing said poster of being an example of "what's wrong with society".

What a ridiculous statement.

Do you see Matheson types throwing down nerds in this society?

No. Because you would go to jail if you did.

NHL hockey is not reality.

In reality, you use your voice and not your hands when you're doing battle.

In NHL hockey, if you don't physically push back, you're going to get taken advantage of. End of story.

And in this case, Petey gets taken down by an 18 year rookie that was just effing around.

That 18 year old rookie was effing around because everyone knows you can eff around with the Canucks because nothing happens when you do.

Get over yourself. Seriously. Stop projecting your own insecurities about physical violence onto others.

This team is pure garbage. Pettersson is the best thing that has happened to this team since the Sedins and he's already been injured TWICE in his first season with Jimbo's culture carriers sitting around with their thumbs up their asses.

Except "said poster" was endorsing flying elbows to the head and taking out knees of opposing players. Said poster's "point of view" would seem exceedingly violent, even for a violent sport such as hockey...points of view that include this sort of train of thought are what is wrong with society, in my opinion. Said poster should really take an introspective look at himself a little closer and find out why he is so angry, and perhaps [MOD].

 

[mathonwy]

Except "said poster" was endorsing flying elbows to the head and taking out knees of opposing players. Said poster's "point of view" would seem exceedingly violent, even for a violent sport such as hockey...points of view that include this sort of train of thought are what is wrong with society, in my opinion. Said poster should really take an introspective look at himself a little closer and find out why he is so angry, and perhaps [MOD].

Thank you for your concern but I've actually have done a whole lot of introspection on this and I'm 100% ok with everything that I've stated.

Canucks are MY team and if you eff with MY team then you get what you deserve.

Punishment and consequences.

Action, reaction.





And just for kicks...



...

Did Churla or Koivu actually deserve that kind of reaction?

Don't know... and don't care cuz Bure and Ohlund are MY boize.

And eff Marchand.

 

[SillyRabbit]

I’d rather be the team that overreacts in protecting their superstar than the team that doesn’t react at all.

It’s clear that the players either don’t know or don’t care how important Pettersson is to the franchise.

Either they think they can win without him, or they don’t care about winning.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Thank you for your concern but I've actually have done a whole lot of introspection on this and I'm 100% ok with everything that I've stated.

Canucks are MY team and if you eff with MY team then you get what you deserve.

Punishment and consequences.

Action, reaction.

Did Churla or Koivu actually deserve that kind of reaction?

Don't know... and don't care cuz Bure and Ohlund are MY boize.

And eff Marchand.

Actually, this is tribalism to the extreme. What you are describing here is an action, of any variety, should be met by a reaction, of any variety. I cannot agree with this. There should have been something done: I can agree to that point of view. But not this sledgehammer for a slap mentality. A minor slash, face wash, pulling his jersey etc... All of these minor acts would have sufficed. That shows at least some reaction to a dubious action. Attempting to injure him in turn? Nope. For a trip, that's highly excessive.

I think Kotkaniemi knew he screwed up. That's why he was apologizing. The accidentally-on-purpose trip was on him. Pettersson isn't going to lambaste him in the media for it. That works in direct opposition to what was done by his own coach and teammates. It's also sets the stage for premeditation the next time these two teams meet.

The greater indictment is that they did nothing. Botchford and Paterson agree. The NHL has never been at perfect equilibrium between punishment and crime. That's why "deserve", or the perception of what was deserved, is irrelevant.

 

[mathonwy]

Actually, this is tribalism to the extreme. What you are describing here is an action, of any variety, should be met by a reaction, of any variety. I cannot agree with this. There should have been something done: I can agree to that point of view. But not this sledgehammer for a slap mentality. A minor slash, face wash, pulling his jersey etc... All of these minor acts would have sufficed. That shows at least some reaction to a dubious action. Attempting to injure him in turn? Nope. For a trip, that's highly excessive.

I think Kotkaniemi knew he screwed up. That's why he was apologizing. The accidentally-on-purpose trip was on him. Pettersson isn't going to lambaste him in the media for it. That works in direct opposition to what was done by his own coach and teammates. It's also sets the stage for premeditation the next time these two teams meet.

The greater indictment is that they did nothing. Botchford and Paterson agree. The NHL has never been at perfect equilibrium between punishment and crime. That's why "deserve", or the perception of what was deserved, is irrelevant.

It's kinda interesting actually.

From a neutral 3rd party objective perspective, you aren't wrong.

From the aggrieved Canuck fan who saw this type of culture disaster coming a mile away, I'm not wrong.

This is an interesting conversation.

 

[PavelBure10]

Montreal fans keep saying that we all wanted blood. I think most of us just wanted some sort of reaction rather than pretending that it didn't happen. Anything.... a big hit, or even a simple face wash would do. Kotkaniemi incident was unfortunate, but Matheson and Boroweicki had intent with their actions, and they should of been dealt with. This s**t will unfortunately continue to happen to Pettersson, until someone grows a pair and does something about it.

 

[Peter10]

There is something seriously wrong with the culture of this team.

Must be all the losing....



They are bad for 3-4 seasons now and as the OP said, there is something wrong with their culture. Benning is like Nostradamus.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's kinda interesting actually.

From a neutral 3rd party objective perspective, you aren't wrong.

From the aggrieved Canuck fan who saw this type of culture disaster coming a mile away, I'm not wrong.

This is an interesting conversation.

An extreme intent to harm is wrong. It doesn't matter if you are promoting team tribalism, which isn't necessarily off base given the history of the sport, or you don't promote tribalism in any form whatsoever. There are limits. When we get to discussing the courts handling what is happening on the ice, then you're in Bertuzzi territory. I'm sure he felt every bit as righteous in going after Moore... right up until he found Moore broke his neck. Extremism is wrong.

 

[mathonwy]

An extreme intent to harm is wrong. It doesn't matter if you are promoting team tribalism, which isn't necessarily off base given the history of the sport, or you don't promote tribalism in any form whatsoever. There are limits. When we get to discussing the courts handling what is happening on the ice, then you're in Bertuzzi territory. I'm sure he felt every bit as righteous in going after Moore... right up until he found Moore broke his neck. Extremism is wrong.

I respect your opinion.

How about you be a Canuck fan your way and I'll be a Canuck fan my way.

Deal?

 

[mathonwy]

Must be all the losing....

They are bad for 3-4 seasons now and as the OP said, there is something wrong with their culture. Benning is like Nostradamus.

More like Nostradumbass.... amirite?

 

[Bleach Clean]

I respect your opinion.

How about you be a Canuck fan your way and I'll be a Canuck fan my way.

Deal?

Deal.

 

[biturbo19]

Seems more like there's actually something wrong with the culture of hockey in a more general sense tbh.

I don't understand what people expect to happen in the climate of today's NHL. It's a game that's been steered so much toward avoiding physical play in favor of positioning, and winning the special teams battle, that you can't afford to "punish" anyone. Much less an opponent that is wholly irrelevant to your playoff race and you won't see again until next season. They've taken so much of the physicality out of the game, the ticky tacky hooky grabby stuff is most of what's left.

Nor do i even really understand this idea that the Kotkaniemi/Pettersson incident requires some sort of "retribution". It was a freaking gangly-limbed accident on an uncalled (along with hundreds of others per game) interference penalty. What message is there to even send? "Hey you, puny youngest kid in the NHL...don't mess with our guys in really weird convoluted baby giraffe leg twister games stuff! Or else...!!!"

This whole thing is just sad all around i think.

 

[mathonwy]

Seems more like there's actually something wrong with the culture of hockey in a more general sense tbh.

I don't understand what people expect to happen in the climate of today's NHL. It's a game that's been steered so much toward avoiding physical play in favor of positioning, and winning the special teams battle, that you can't afford to "punish" anyone. Much less an opponent that is wholly irrelevant to your playoff race and you won't see again until next season. They've taken so much of the physicality out of the game, the ticky tacky hooky grabby stuff is most of what's left.

Nor do i even really understand this idea that the Kotkaniemi/Pettersson incident requires some sort of "retribution". It was a freaking gangly-limbed accident on an uncalled (along with hundreds of others per game) interference penalty. What message is there to even send? "Hey you, puny youngest kid in the NHL...don't mess with our guys in really weird convoluted baby giraffe leg twister games stuff! Or else...!!!"

This whole thing is just sad all around i think.

How about.. don't mess with our guy.

Our main guy.

The most important guy in team history since the Sedins.

Seriously. Don't breathe on him wrong or I'll stick you in the face.

<EP40 gets breathed on wrong>

<Player with breathing problems gets stuck in the face>

Life goes on.

What is sad about that?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Seems more like there's actually something wrong with the culture of hockey in a more general sense tbh.

I don't understand what people expect to happen in the climate of today's NHL. It's a game that's been steered so much toward avoiding physical play in favor of positioning, and winning the special teams battle, that you can't afford to "punish" anyone. Much less an opponent that is wholly irrelevant to your playoff race and you won't see again until next season. They've taken so much of the physicality out of the game, the ticky tacky hooky grabby stuff is most of what's left.

Nor do i even really understand this idea that the Kotkaniemi/Pettersson incident requires some sort of "retribution". It was a freaking gangly-limbed accident on an uncalled (along with hundreds of others per game) interference penalty. What message is there to even send? "Hey you, puny youngest kid in the NHL...don't mess with our guys in really weird convoluted baby giraffe leg twister games stuff! Or else...!!!"

This whole thing is just sad all around i think.

That you see it as a complete accident explains why you don't understand the call for retribution/retaliation.

If the climate of the NHL today seeks to diminish physical play and any outside punishment, remove the players that have been touted as having been added for team toughness. They are not necessary anymore. Add skill and speed, almost dogmatically, and beat other teams on the PP.

 

[biturbo19]

How about.. don't mess with our guy.

Our main guy.

The most important guy in team history since the Sedins.

Seriously. Don't breathe on him wrong or I'll stick you in the face.

<EP40 gets breathed on wrong>

<Player with breathing problems gets stuck in the face>

Life goes on.

What is sad about that?

Nothing. Nothing at all.

Probably some pointless mouthbreather knuckledragging goon getting stuck in the face from the sounds of it. Good riddance.

 

[biturbo19]

That you see it as a complete accident explains why you don't understand the call for retribution/retaliation.

I the climate of the NHL today seeks to diminish physical play and any outside punishment, remove the players that have been touted as having been added for team toughness. They are not necessary anymore. Add skill and speed, almost dogmatically, and beat other teams on the PP.

It's an accident. It's an accident created by a game that promotes this kind of hooky holdy nonsense, while punishing actual physical play and retribution/retaliation with extreme prejudice. If you don't understand how that's a problem that results in a pair of gangly teenagers having a calamitous mishap on the ice while trying to be "in position" instead of just physically engaging and battling for position like "the good ol' days"...I think that explains a lot as well.

The NHL is certainly trending toward a league like the European ones, where that "Add skill and speed, almost dogmatically, and beat other teams on the PP" maxim reins supreme. And that's fine if you like seeing the controversial "retribution-worthy" incidents be the incidental ones like this Pettersson/Kotkaniemi thing. But i hate it, and don't want to see the game go in that direction. I hate watching incidents like that one, and i don't want to watch soccer on ice.

People love to champion this idea that speed + skill > all and thus it's necessary to eject all physicality from the game to make it better and more pure. But the reality is...Gretzky wouldn't have been the GOAT if he'd gone down in a heap and died every time someone 18 year old punk tugged at him a bit. Transcendent skill will always rise above, and i think it speaks deeply to a lot of people's insecurity that they're incessantly lobbying to get any and all physical play or intimidation out of the game of hockey anyway.

 

[Svencouver]

Lol what a joke of a thread. There is literally zero reason to take a run at a guy over an accident. I just don't see in what world you could think this play had intent to injure. There is literally not a single figure in the entire NHL that has or would called this out as a dirty play. Kotkaniemi is looking at the puck, runs into Pettersson, falls, and they get tangled up. It's like the most innocuous thing I've ever seen.

I get the anger of the no retaliation with the Matheson situation. I was livid about that too. There was absolutely no reason to not stick up for your guy after a gutless play like that. But this is so far away from what happened with Matheson it's ridiculous. Yall are seeing red and the anger from that incident is carrying over to this one. There's no correlation, move on.

 

[clunk]

Kotkaniemi is looking at the puck, runs into Pettersson, falls, and they get tangled up. It's like the most innocuous thing I've ever seen.

Lol

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's an accident. It's an accident created by a game that promotes this kind of hooky holdy nonsense, while punishing actual physical play and retribution/retaliation with extreme prejudice. If you don't understand how that's a problem that results in a pair of gangly teenagers having a calamitous mishap on the ice while trying to be "in position" instead of just physically engaging and battling for position like "the good ol' days"...I think that explains a lot as well.

You think it was completely an accident, I don't. There's the difference.

I don't know where you're going with the rest of this. Hooks and holds are penalties in the NHL, no?

The NHL is certainly trending toward a league like the European ones, where that "Add skill and speed, almost dogmatically, and beat other teams on the PP" maxim reins supreme. And that's fine if you like seeing the controversial "retribution-worthy" incidents be the incidental ones like this Pettersson/Kotkaniemi thing. But i hate it, and don't want to see the game go in that direction. I hate watching incidents like that one, and i don't want to watch soccer on ice.

People love to champion this idea that speed + skill > all and thus it's necessary to eject all physicality from the game to make it better and more pure. But the reality is...Gretzky wouldn't have been the GOAT if he'd gone down in a heap and died every time someone 18 year old punk tugged at him a bit. Transcendent skill will always rise above, and i think it speaks deeply to a lot of people's insecurity that they're incessantly lobbying to get any and all physical play or intimidation out of the game of hockey anyway.

Cool, what does this have to do with perceiving that play as an accident or not an accident?

Further, if speed and skill reigns supreme, why are the Canucks signing meat heads to prepare for team toughness?

 

[Zippgunn]

We haven't been reading the same posts then, valky.



I don't disagree, I just don't know how we get there.

Some old rat/agitator was on Sportsnet 650 this morning talking about the incident, and how the team getting super riled up would be something that would be exactly what he was looking for... it's hard to be on your game if you are too mad to think straight, hard to win a game if you're constantly dealing with penalties because teams know they can rile you up easily.

Obviously you don't want to just let your guys get run, especially not the Franchise players... but there's a difference between someone taking a run, and someone just doing some stupid **** that gets out of hand.

The players and coach seem to think it wasn't actually a dirty play. A lot of the fanbase, or the more vocal parts of the fanbase maybe, think it is.

If the team was calling this a dirty play, and doing nothing I would have more of an issue with the culture. Would it be great to see them backing each other up more whether or not it was dirty? Of course!

But let's be honest, would we be anywhere near as pissed off about this injury if it happened to Tim Schaller? Or Jay Beagle? Even Jake Virtanen? If we go nuclear everytime someone messes with Petey, that's just giving other teams as much ammunition as if we do nothing.

My God, FINALLY somebody who gets it. I am sure that the whole Canucks team is secretly infuriated by this incident but are loathe to express their anger pubilcly because if they do then EVERY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE WILL BE TAKING RUNS AT PETE knowing full well that it will throw us off of whatever game we possess currently. Even a return to the glory days of mighty Bertuzzi will not stop this if we make it clear that any attempt to mess with EP will derail us mentally. We MUST let it pass or it will consume our team and make us easier pickings than we already are. The Canucks (or at least their more militant fans) are historically hyper sensitive about their fragile Swedish duperstars, the whole league already knows that. It is up to the present caretakers of this franchise to convince the rest of the league that we cannot be sidetracked by bad fortune or dubious hits. If the hits are bad enough the league will deal with it but losing our collective minds over what was at best an interference penalty shows the rest of the league that we can be had for as little as a 2 minute penalty. Remember the 7 minute PP's, all because some big guy ATTEMPTED to hit a Sedin. Such suckers we were then and, it seems, still are, at least many fans here.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Classy move by Pettersson to make a statement today (which concurs with the coach and players) that it was indeed an accident...and not a dirty play.

Some of the posts in this thread are a complete embarrassment to the team, and the fanbase.

 

[Bleach Clean]

For some reason somebody keeps pointing out that the team didn't say it was a dirty play. Amazing take. Does this mean something?

Botchford and Paterson outline the non-straight up actions involved in said play. Listen to the latest PatCast. Do they not know about the team's classy statements?!? How dare they!

I especially adore the act of pointing out a classy statement, while proceeding to make a very tasteless statement. Gives me a chuckle. HF is awesome.

 

[mossey3535]

Worse, Green basically put some of the blame back on Petey. That's frigging moronic.

Who cares if this BASICALLY TERRIBLE TEAM is put off what little game they have IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HURT THE FRANCHISE PLAYER.

All these turn the other cheek arguments are ones that only make sense if made by a contending team.

To be specific, that contending team was the 2010-2011 Canucks and it was an attitude nurtured rightly or wrongly by the Sedins and AV. It's not a universal strategy to this sort of thing, but it is definitely the lingering culture from past seasons.

We are not even close. Ironically, most contending teams have a very active response to these types of incidents and are not put off their game at all but actually use that emotion to fuel another level of performance.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Worse, Green basically put some of the blame back on Petey. That's frigging moronic.

Who cares if this BASICALLY TERRIBLE TEAM is put off what little game they have IF YOU ARE ALLOWED TO HURT THE FRANCHISE PLAYER.

All these turn the other cheek arguments are ones made by contending teams. We are not even close. Ironically, most contending teams have a very active response to these types of incidents and are not put off their game at all but actually use that emotion to fuel another level of performance.

It’s interesting hearing Green talk. When @sting101 pointed out that he's heard that this is a top down directive, I did some digging. I found the post Matheson hit video where Green is "just as upset as the fans". Here it is:



In this video, Green stops short of saying that they chose to focus on winning the game instead of exacting a toll on the opposition.

- First, he says the players didn't know what happened.
- Then he says that he couldn't find his Ipad to see the hit.
- Then he says they scored.
- After that, it's platitudes "team plays to win the game" "winning teams are hard to play against" "hard to play against is a burning desire to win" etc...
- "Oh, and I want our group to stick up for each other"
- "I'm as mad as anyone, but I stick by what happened the other night" (no push back)
- "Not going to comment on retribution" (obviously)

So even when he's allegedly irate, he's going to push for the win. That means no needless penalties. Draw your conclusions from there...

Angry or compassionate, Green will push the team to win, first and foremost. The "stick up for your teammates" part is secondary.