The "win now" mentality needs to stop

[Coach Travis]

Firstly, nobody but Chicago looks like a Cup Winning team this season. Until next season when Toews & Kane both have bloated contracts and the Hawks have to move some of that sweet, sweet depth, then maybe we'll be back in the discussion.

There's a lot of great parts on this club obviously and I'd include Letang as one of those. But we're hanging a lot on the shoulders of Marc-André Fleury. Since I don't have a say in the matter, I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt that "this will be the year" he becomes an elite playoff goaltender but our Cup hopes start and end with him.

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Obviously I dont know what's in perrons head... but i bet he re-signs this off season. He was in a ****** situation in Edmonton, called out the org (kinda). If the pens offer him anything near a fair deal he'll take it because he knows how much it sucks to be on the other side.

100% agree, no one wants to go back to that. And we have the money to pay the guy, with Martin and Ehrhoff most likely walking, and Scuds being disposable if they really want rid of his hit. If Duper's career is over, we have that much more space. Fleury's deal is very cap friendly, and the deals of Crosby, Malkin and Letang will look very friendly as soon as next year.

This TDL will be interesting. It's not realistic to expect us to dump Martin for picks, though that's exactly what I'd like to see. I just don't want to see any of the young D men go for rentals unless they are very sure they can re-sign the guy. But that rarely ever happens. What motivation does the player have to re-sign? A Petry may well re-sign because he's seen how bad it can be in Edmonton, but they can sign anywhere if they just wait another few months.

 

[CommonForte]

Firstly, nobody but Chicago looks like a Cup Winning team this season. Until next season when Toews & Kane both have bloated contracts and the Hawks have to move some of that sweet, sweet depth, then maybe we'll be back in the discussion.

There's a lot of great parts on this club obviously and I'd include Letang as one of those. But we're hanging a lot on the shoulders of Marc-André Fleury. Since I don't have a say in the matter, I choose to give him the benefit of the doubt that "this will be the year" he becomes an elite playoff goaltender but our Cup hopes start and end with him.

You dont think Nashville, Anaheim, Kings, Montreal, Islanders, Tampa, Pens all look just as good as Chicago? This year is wide open.

 

[Ugene Magic]

You dont think Nashville, Anaheim, Kings, Montreal, Islanders, Tampa, Pens all look just as good as Chicago? This year is wide open.

I'll say this, Chicago will not have a walk out of the west.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

This is such BS. We have actually drafted extremely well with the number of picks that we had. Compared to Chicago though we have only had 31 picks in the last 5 years while they had 46. That is a HUGE difference of 3 more per year or 48% more opportunity. They can have 15 total busts before even getting to our draft number.

No, no we haven't. Sher was not only a bad drafter but also threw away too nay picks on bad players.

Shero set this team back a good 5 years, easily.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

That's not the only mentality that needs to stop here.

People here hate what Shero did and the style Bylsma brought in, but then they go on to basically embody that with the type of players they want, who they want to move them for, and the absolute lack of reality in terms of how a team is going to adapt to change.

Therrien (2 full seasons, took over after 51 games, was fired after 57 games) wasn't a Pens coach for long, but he brought in structure when there was none, with a heavy handed approach that seemed to wear thin with some of the youth.

Bylsma (5 1/4 seasons as coach) came in and gave them a more guidance councilor approach with a love for the blue collar type players and an absolutely unrealistic system based on it being executed perfectly otherwise it fell apart, lack of leadership, and a terrible way to handle youth and that was ongoing for 5yrs.

A new coach comes in, a new GM as well...it's not like they are taking over someone that was around for 2yrs, these are people that were around for 7+ years (Shero) and 5 years in Bylsma.

Winning is going to come, sure, but the culture change is what needs to be addressed and that won't change over night in a sport where players are very strict with a routine and superstition, it will be an adjustment.

Chris Neil, Chris Stewart, and various other bottom feeders are not going to fix the underlying issues this team has to erase from their memories.


PS: Yeah I'm still pissed off with the moronic trade ideas to pawn off youth for horse ****. I don't give a ****, I have my right to be angry, this board is tough to participate in and yeah yeah, save the well go elsewhere bs. People need to give MJ a shot because Babcock wasn't some genius coach when he was with the Ducks and was likely in a Bylsma type situation with how his team in his first year (although not a 25 game season) made the finals but the guy has 1 cup yet you'd think with how horned out people are by him - he has like 7 cup rings as a coach or some ****, watch the wings more often...the guy has some flaws that drive legit Wings fans (of which there are very few on this forum) mad. JQ wasn't some brilliant guy either, he inherited some very good teams and had a solid system but man was he bad in the playoffs until Chicago and Sutter...most people would have never guessed he did what he ended up doing in LA and so forth. Who's to say MJ won't end up being an even better coach than those guys? After 50 some odd games, people want him gone? Right, it's not like he had an massive uphill battle with undoing the insanely horrible job that bylsma did with handling youth and their trust or JR with the terrible asset management done by Shero that he had to fix. Then the ****ed up weirdos and their obsession with Morehouse, it makes the Flyers and Leafs board look sane.

 

[Sam Spade]

Who knows what type of coach Johnston will turn out to be, too early to tell. I don't think he was the Pens first, or even second choice, so if the team implodes I don't think they will have any problem letting him go.

 

[Gurglesons]

PS: Yeah I'm still pissed off with the moronic trade ideas to pawn off youth for horse ****. I don't give a ****, I have my right to be angry, this board is tough to participate in and yeah yeah, save the well go elsewhere bs. People need to give MJ a shot because Babcock wasn't some genius coach when he was with the Ducks and was likely in a Bylsma type situation with how his team in his first year (although not a 25 game season) made the finals but the guy has 1 cup yet you'd think with how horned out people are by him - he has like 7 cup rings as a coach or some ****, watch the wings more often...the guy has some flaws that drive legit Wings fans (of which there are very few on this forum) mad. JQ wasn't some brilliant guy either, he inherited some very good teams and had a solid system but man was he bad in the playoffs until Chicago and Sutter...most people would have never guessed he did what he ended up doing in LA and so forth. Who's to say MJ won't end up being an even better coach than those guys? After 50 some odd games, people want him gone? Right, it's not like he had an massive uphill battle with undoing the insanely horrible job that bylsma did with handling youth and their trust or JR with the terrible asset management done by Shero that he had to fix. Then the ****ed up weirdos and their obsession with Morehouse, it makes the Flyers and Leafs board look sane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRewghcGMT8

Watch that video. Babcock knew exactly what he was doing with that team.

 

[Asuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRewghcGMT8

Watch that video. Babcock knew exactly what he was doing with that team.

Some similarities in the beginning with Babcock and Johnston.

 

[The Old Master]

kind of late to tank for the no1 pick when we have already traded it away....just say'en

 

[Gurglesons]

Some similarities in the beginning with Babcock and Johnston.

I'm not arguing against Johnston as a good coach. Just the fact that Babcock has been the same way since he came in the league.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

If we're comparing Babcock to Johnston, I remember when Bylsma was here, the term "out coached" was used a lot. "Bylsma was out coached by _____" every so often. Tortorella, Julien, Boucher, Laviolette, you name it. By that logic, Johnston out coached Babcock last Wednesday night, his team was also on par with JQ's team Sunday afternoon, his team shutout Trotz's Predators earlier this season, we beat Anaheim in the season opener, we have wins against Montreal, Boston and Tampa Bay, hey maybe the Pens aren't as bad as some people on here say they are?!

People have actually compared MJ to Babcock, two intelligent hockey coaches. People have to give MJ more than a little over half a season. I mentioned in another thread, maybe this one, that teams who don't give coaches enough time to put a system in place and get to know their team, end up as huge failures. Example: The NHL's Edmonton Oilers and the NFL's Cleveland Browns.

I've seen so many people want numerous players traded and the whole coaching staff fired. Change for the sake of change, let's trade Kunitz, Martin, Scuderi, Sutter, Dupuis, Adams and Sill. Does anyone understand how much leadership and locker room strength exits the doors with those moves? Then on top of that, we want to try ANOTHER coaching staff after this new one has only had a little over 50 games to work with?

Keep in mind, I understand nobody has said all of this in one post, but everything I've read in the past month or so and putting it all together, it's unreal. There is something to be said about a strong locker room, the NHL is a business but you still need team chemistry. So none of the guys I mentioned above are good enough for CERTAIN PEOPLE, that doesn't mean they're not good players in their own right. Believe it or not, you NEED players like Scuderi, Kunitz, Sutter, hell even ADAMS for the playoffs. The roster had a big enough overhaul last Summer, if we do it again there is no guarantee the roster will be better.

 

[Giskard]

Why mixing the Shero era with the new Rutherford regime? Shero had a good run, I was all in for the Hossa, Neal and Staal trade, but he wasn't that good in signing FA and then he panic and trade too much for less in the last years.

And now we're paying the early draft years, from 2006 to 2009, in 24 picks we only had Staal (a can't miss pick), Bortuzzo and Despres, that's a very poor draft ratio. Things changed from 2010, but even now Bennett is still not a sure thing, and Rust, Archibald, Wilson, Sundqvist & co. will not compete for a roster sport at least till next training camp.

The work of Rutherford so far as been very good for me, good FA signing, good trade in Hornqvist, great trade in Perron, good Fleury re-sign, now let's see if he blow it in the next weeks, but I wouldn't mind if he trade a D like Ehrhoff or Scuderi for a good pick.

In the end, after the "all-in" era of last Shero years, now it seem a more balanced situation, we use our 1st round to get Perron, and I doubt that a lot of people can be against that move. We have a good team that can win now, so why we should take a year off? So far this year we didn't do anything to imperil our future.

 

[rkhum]

For the past 5+ years, the Penguins organization and fan base has been preoccupied with winning the cup each year. While winning the cup is certainly the goal for any team, a "win now" mentality can severely hinder the future growth of the team. The Pens have the core we need to compete every year (Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Fleury) but we continue to beat ourselves by taking drastic measures to make the team a Stanley Cup contender. Instead, I say we start moving the team in a different direction. How so? Well first, we need to be realistic about things.

Where it stands, this isn't a cup winning team. Unfortunately, trying to force this group to go all for the cup hinders our development. For example, are Scuds and Bortz NHL defenseman? Without a doubt, but we have players in the system (DP and Harrington) who have the ability to be better for our team in the FUTURE. Sure, giving them NHL playing time will probably hinder our cup chances, but they will gain experience that will allow them to become better players for our team. No amount of AHL play will prepare them for the NHL, and it's time we let them make mistakes and learn at the NHL level. Try to think about this team 5-10 years from now. What are our plans for then? There's no doubt in my mind that at age 35, Crosby will still be a top player in the league and have the ability to lead his team to the cup.

We keep living year-to-year, and to me, that is an inefficient way to run an organization. The Redwings have stayed competitive for around 20 years. Why? They don't try to throw all their eggs in one basket and try win every year. They continue to build from within. They draft well, they build well, and they win well. Until we allow ourselves to worry about the future of this franchise as well, we will continue to lose and will keep getting worse and worse.

Just my insight anyways, let me know what you guys think.

I 100% agree.
Shero's spree in 2013 cost us depth and youth.

The Pens lack size, speed, and stout defenseman along with hungry youth.
They don't need to add players by dealing picks, they need to replace problem guys who have value (Kunitz, Sutter, Despres) with players who have the skills we currently lack.

 

[Penguinator]

...and we need to replace a certain fake fan that thrives on hate, although i do agree on one player but that would be hard to do... REALISTICALLY speaking.