The Virtues of Development vs. Winning in the AHL (Read OP)

[Samzilla]

It's true, Benning and his team have done a masterful job of making sure our prospects soak up the right atmosphere at the right time. Have to give Jimbo an A+ on the atmosphere.

I'm concerned about scrums, though. I'm not sure McCann got a chance to practice scrums when he was with the Comets, and the lack of game action certainly didn't get him any exposure to AHL-level scrums. Now Jake Virtanen, there's no worry there-- the kid has got all the tools to be an absolute Sbisa in scrums at the NHL level. But McCann's scrum game has been a question mark since he was drafted. I know Bennings puts a lot of emphasis on scrum ability, so let's hope McCann can make a big jump with some off-season training.

I sure hope so. Fact: the last 5 cup winners have all been top 3 in scrumwick %. I think we can get there.

 

[MS]

Cant believe the Monarchs are wasting their time putting that Kempe guy in the lineup. Should've sent him home to properly develop him.

He's only 18 years old, no need to rush him. The team should be loyal to the guys that got them there, not some 18 year old first round prospect who wouldn't even be eligible for the AHL if he played in the CHL. Recent first round picks don't benefit from playing in the AHL playoffs.

At least the Canucks management group was smart enough to send away their promising prospects before the final. I think they knew they were in tough against a superior Manchester squad and were concerned their prospects might soak up the losing atmosphere.

Perfectly timed to move them out when they'd soaked up maximum atmosphere.

It's true, Benning and his team have done a masterful job of making sure our prospects soak up the right atmosphere at the right time. Have to give Jimbo an A+ on the atmosphere.

I'm concerned about scrums, though. I'm not sure McCann got a chance to practice scrums when he was with the Comets, and the lack of game action certainly didn't get him any exposure to AHL-level scrums. Now Jake Virtanen, there's no worry there-- the kid has got all the tools to be an absolute Sbisa in scrums at the NHL level. But McCann's scrum game has been a question mark since he was drafted. I know Bennings puts a lot of emphasis on scrum ability, so let's hope McCann can make a big jump with some off-season training.

 

[Jyrki21]

You laugh, but for all we know, with just one more game, Kempe may have suffered atmospheric oversoak (a.k.a ambiensis superimbibuosis), a dangerous condition that affects 1 prospect in 7. The Monarchs were playing with fire the entire time. Maybe next year they'll know better.

 

[DL44]

The more i think about it...

They got McCann a full additional month of summer training at his home facilities with their home trainers instead of traveling and killing days in hotels, training at random facilities in Grand Rapids or Manchester...

As an 18 yr old, I'm thinking the benefit of doing so pays off in the short term come rookie camps in late summer and long term - setting the initial physical foundation for his career.

It's quite possible considering his stature that the extra month of routine and consistency in his training is actually more valuable at this point in his development than spot duty vs larger more experienced centers in the playoff run.

 

[Ryp37]

The more i think about it...

They got McCann a full additional month of summer training at his home facilities with their home trainers instead of traveling and killing days in hotels, training at random facilities in Grand Rapids or Manchester...

As an 18 yr old, I'm thinking the benefit of doing so pays off in the short term come rookie camps in late summer and long term - setting the initial physical foundation for his career.

It's quite possible considering his stature that the extra month of routine and consistency in his training is actually more valuable at this point in his development than spot duty vs larger more experienced centers in the playoff run.

Yeah being sent home from his first state of AHL hockey really helped set the physical foundation for his career

 

[DL44]

Yeah being sent home from his first state of AHL hockey really helped set the physical foundation for his career

That's quite the jump.

But i was just thinking out loud. I'm probably waaaay off in the logic there.

 

[Ryp37]

That's quite the jump.

But i was just thinking out loud. I'm probably waaaay off in the logic there.

Yeah just a bit

 

[DL44]

Yeah just a bit

Time will tell.
(actually, no it won't )

 

[WTG]

Let's hope they don't make the same mistakes as last year.

I now feel completely justified in my outrage of the treatment of the prospects down in Utica.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Let's hope they don't make the same mistakes as last year.

I now feel completely justified in my outrage of the treatment of the prospects down in Utica.

No reason to be outraged our prospects are looking good. Perhaps starting training early was more beneficial than playing big games. Hodgson, Jensen and Schoeder all played late season games than did not progress throughout the summer. Maybe going there and not playing is better? Who knows? Seems McCann and Hutton are not suffering. Virtanen has been okay after playing likely it has little affect on these players future either way. It was too bad for fans of Utica as they may never see McCann play.

 

[Verviticus]

No reason to be outraged our prospects are looking good.

this is silly. you're basically saying "we can never be critical of a thing if we're happy with the result"

 

[StrictlyCommercial]

No reason to be outraged our prospects are looking good. Perhaps starting training early was more beneficial than playing big games. Hodgson, Jensen and Schoeder all played late season games than did not progress throughout the summer. Maybe going there and not playing is better? Who knows? Seems McCann and Hutton are not suffering. Virtanen has been okay after playing likely it has little affect on these players future either way. It was too bad for fans of Utica as they may never see McCann play.

You know how silly this argument is right? 'Got better by not playing'

I'd like you to do an informal survey of hockey players asking 'do you improve more by playing games or watching games?'.

The answer may surprise you.

 

[MS]

You know how silly this argument is right? 'Got better by not playing'

I'd like you to do an informal survey of hockey players asking 'do you improve more by playing games or watching games?'.

The answer may surprise you.

Also Hutton and McCann were sent home like 10 days before Utica's season ended. They were practicing as normal until that point and ready to play.

The notion that 10 extra days rest and offseason training somehow transformed them into NHL-ready prospects is ... suspect, at best. Ridiculous at worst.

 

[DL44]

Let's hope they don't make the same mistakes as last year.

I now feel completely justified in my outrage of the treatment of the prospects down in Utica.

I don't think your outrage is justified at all... Virtanen showed up in Utica at 228 pounds and able to skate 25-30 second shifts. Look at him now after a summer of training.

Hutton and McCann don't appear to have any signs of conditioning issues that apparently sent them home to get a jump start on training... And both are on the verge of making an NHL team.

If anything... the fact all 3 (but more specifically the latter 2) are on the verge of making the opening day rosters - or at least challenging for them.. kinda actually more displays management made the correct decision for their long term futures.

Also Hutton and McCann were sent home like 10 days before Utica's season ended.

I thought it turned out to be closer to a month?

 

[Verviticus]

kinda actually more displays management made the correct decision for their long term futures.

no it doesn't. it cant display that. it can display that they made the wrong choice, but not the right one. if they were bad players right now, it would be the opposite

 

[DL44]

no it doesn't. it cant display that. it can display that they made the wrong choice, but not the right one. if they were bad players right now, it would be the opposite

???

 

[WTG]

I don't think your outrage is justified at all... Virtanen showed up in Utica at 228 pounds and able to skate 25-30 second shifts. Look at him now after a summer of training.

Hutton and McCann don't appear to have any signs of conditioning issues that apparently sent them home to get a jump start on training... And both are on the verge of making an NHL team.

If anything... the fact all 3 (but more specifically the latter 2) are on the verge of making the opening day rosters - or at least challenging for them.. kinda actually more displays management made the correct decision for their long term futures.

So basically, the reason our prospects are playing good now is because they weren't playing then?

What a stretch.

Hutton never had conditioning issues. Neither did McCann.

In junior it was quiet apparent that Virtanen had conditioning issues. Go back and look at some of my posts how he takes 30 seconds shifts in the Virtanen thread. But they still played him.

 

[WTG]

"We need to ice a lineup good lineup so that our prospects are around a winning team"

"By not playing the kids in the winning team and sending them home early they actually got better"

These narratives contradict each other, no?

 

[Verviticus]

???

success at this level implies they could have been successful in the ahl last year. failure at this level implies they might not have been. you cant just take a good result and say "hey everything we did contributed to this". thats not how existence works. results can happen in spite of the past rather than entirely because of it

if i broke connor mcdavids leg every year for five years and at 24 he wins the art ross i cant say "well breaking his leg was good for his career because look how good he is". you're trying to spin not playing hockey as some sort of positive for development and that is categorically not the case

you're basically taking a conclusion (not playing prospects is a good thing) because of a previously established conclusion (jim benning and his management team are often correct) and using it to justify anything instead of considering what actually happened as evidence to the contrary

 

[DL44]

So basically, the reason our prospects are playing good now is because they weren't playing then?

What a stretch.

Agreed... That's a massive stretch.
But good thing that wasn't what i actually said or the basis of my thought.

 

[Verviticus]

Agreed... That's a massive stretch.
But good thing that wasn't what i actually said or the basis of my thought.

well then the basis of your thought is a mystery and you havent started to express it

 

[NoRaise4Brackett]

It would be a good topic to ask management about next Summer summit. Green was given the go-ahead to do as he saw fit, so would it not be on Green instead of Benning/Linden?

While the notion of not playing them seems ridiculous, there is no arguing the way they have responded at camp. Whether that is due to anything from being sent home early to train... only McCann/Hutton or management would have any answers.