The Vancouver Media Thread | Part VII

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Bleach Clean

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You are trying to prove a point... that doesn't exist. It is not if it could have been successful or not. Its would Demko Hughes and Petey have stayed while the team did this... its pretty clear they would have left.

So yes it is 100% wrong... The latitude isn't would this have worked...

In a rebuild Petterson-Hughes-Demko are traded. (moot point) That's what Drance wanted. Maybe He did not carry as high an opinion of them as re-tool advocates had at the time.

In a deep re-tool, you and I have no idea what would have been the threshold for Pettersson-Hughes-Demko. Example: Horvat is liquidated for picks and prospects, team does not flip for Hronek but instead overpays for Severson in the offseason, does this mean the trio want out? To me, no, obviously not. The team is still positioned to compete. They're just not paying premiums (in picks/prospects). To you, it's a deep re-tool and Pettersson-Hughes-Demko ask out due to the significant difference between Hornek/Severson, which is absurd.

The posters that continue to suggest no other form of a re-tool would have kept Pettersson-Hughes-Demko here are the ones making the logical leap/irrationally closing off a potential pathway. (You simply do not know)
 

racerjoe

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In a rebuild Petterson-Hughes-Demko are traded. (moot point) That's what Drance wanted. Maybe He did not carry as high an opinion of them as re-tool advocates had at the time.

In a deep re-tool, you and I have no idea what would have been the threshold for Pettersson-Hughes-Demko. Example: Horvat is liquidated for picks and prospects, team does not flip for Hronek but instead overpays for Severson in the offseason, does this mean the trio want out? To me, no, obviously not. The team is still positioned to compete. They're just not paying premiums (in picks/prospects). To you, it's a deep re-tool and Pettersson-Hughes-Demko ask out due to the significant difference between Hornek/Severson, which is absurd.

The posters that continue to suggest no other form of a re-tool would have kept Pettersson-Hughes-Demko here are the ones making the logical leap/irrationally closing off a potential pathway. (You simply do not know)

First, yeah we oretty much do know as Hughes has said he would not have stayed. Hell Petey still hasn't agreed to sign just yet...

To your first point... that is the point... no team would rebuild from where the Canucks were. That is the FANTASY. You could try and make a retool plan and it probably could have worked a year or two earlier... but not where the Canucks were.
 

Reverend Mayhem

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First, yeah we oretty much do know as Hughes has said he would not have stayed. Hell Petey still hasn't agreed to sign just yet...

To your first point... that is the point... no team would rebuild from where the Canucks were. That is the FANTASY. You could try and make a retool plan and it probably could have worked a year or two earlier... but not where the Canucks were.

I had incorrectly assumed previous mgmt had negated the team from being able to compete from poor roster construction. And as much fun as we are having I don’t think the team is as good as the record indicates. So much has gone right. Our most key absence is Soucy so far.

I think the idea I’m grappling with is just because you aren’t in a prime position doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to compete.
 

racerjoe

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I had incorrectly assumed previous mgmt had negated the team from being able to compete from poor roster construction. And as much fun as we are having I don’t think the team is as good as the record indicates. So much has gone right. Our most key absence is Soucy so far.

I think the idea I’m grappling with is just because you aren’t in a prime position doesn’t mean you shouldn’t try to compete.

I generally agree, having said that you go for it because you don't know when you can find seasons like this... You want to try and give yourself as many of these as possible.
 

MarkusNaslund19

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In a rebuild Petterson-Hughes-Demko are traded. (moot point) That's what Drance wanted. Maybe He did not carry as high an opinion of them as re-tool advocates had at the time.

In a deep re-tool, you and I have no idea what would have been the threshold for Pettersson-Hughes-Demko. Example: Horvat is liquidated for picks and prospects, team does not flip for Hronek but instead overpays for Severson in the offseason, does this mean the trio want out? To me, no, obviously not. The team is still positioned to compete. They're just not paying premiums (in picks/prospects). To you, it's a deep re-tool and Pettersson-Hughes-Demko ask out due to the significant difference between Hornek/Severson, which is absurd.

The posters that continue to suggest no other form of a re-tool would have kept Pettersson-Hughes-Demko here are the ones making the logical leap/irrationally closing off a potential pathway. (You simply do not know)
What hill are you dying on here?

I was terrified they would sign Severson to some dumbass contract because he's not close to Hronek in quality and that is bearing out in Columbus where he's not part of the solution and has already been benched at times.

He's a competent top 4 D, don't get me wrong, but signing him to some asinine 7 year contract would have been horrendous and, whether this year or next, wouldn't have led to us improving the way we have and would have likely led to the loss of our stars.

Like, do you think the braintrust just wasn't smart enough to see that Severson was a free asset? Or do you think that their scouting determined that he's not close to Hronek in quality?
 

Reverend Mayhem

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I generally agree, having said that you go for it because you don't know when you can find seasons like this... You want to try and give yourself as many of these as possible.

I was gonna tack on an additional bit o about how previous management f***ed us up so bad that I forgot what a competent organization looked like. There was a point where I wasn’t sure how much difference coaches actually make, we had gone so many years without it.

Don’t get me wrong, lots of things are going right this year, but I think current management has done damn near everything within its control to get us out of the lost cause tier of teams.
 
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PuckMunchkin

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Very few probably predicted us being this good this fast but the outcome still supports those who advocated for staying the course and building around the current core.
I guess. If you believe this is sustainable in the future too.

Or obviously if we go deep in the playoffs this year, that is probably justification alone.
 

m9

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Full credit to the management group for picking a direction and then building a successful team under that direction. But I still don't understand this assumption about what would have happened to EP/Hughes/Demko if we went in a different direction.

Hughes is signed through the 2026-27 season. Demko through 2025-26. Sure it rarely happens, but there isn't that much precedent for signed players refusing to play out their contracts. EP hasn't signed a contract anyway despite the direction management went & the team success so there doesn't appear to be any correlation between the team direction & his contract decision.

Anyways, not important and certainly not to a media thread.
 

Bleach Clean

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What hill are you dying on here?

I was terrified they would sign Severson to some dumbass contract because he's not close to Hronek in quality and that is bearing out in Columbus where he's not part of the solution and has already been benched at times.

He's a competent top 4 D, don't get me wrong, but signing him to some asinine 7 year contract would have been horrendous and, whether this year or next, wouldn't have led to us improving the way we have and would have likely led to the loss of our stars.

Like, do you think the braintrust just wasn't smart enough to see that Severson was a free asset? Or do you think that their scouting determined that he's not close to Hronek in quality?


I think management willingly sacrificed on future team ceiling in order to prioritize the now. Drance has said the same. Is he wrong/negative for saying this? No. He's accurate. They made a conscious decision to keep with the Benning plan (though with much better execution), rather than build from a deeper base of prospects and picks. It's very simple really.

Severson is an example of paying for now players with money rather than futures. He's a lesser player to Hronek (who is about to break the bank himself), but then you would also be using NYI's 1st at the draft (Maybe for Sandin-Pellika).

Judging by what the team has done with their 4 recent UFA signings, it seemed more a matter of getting NHL quality depth than seeing Hughes-Hronek dominate. Hughes carries that pairing and would have done so with Severson as well, though with lesser results (fine).


First, yeah we oretty much do know as Hughes has said he would not have stayed. Hell Petey still hasn't agreed to sign just yet...

To your first point... that is the point... no team would rebuild from where the Canucks were. That is the FANTASY. You could try and make a retool plan and it probably could have worked a year or two earlier... but not where the Canucks were.


It just continues to amaze me how you're able to project what would and would not have happened given a strategy. Like "could have worked a year or two earlier" or "not where the Canucks were"... What are the lotto numbers going to be?

Racerjoe, your static position remains incorrect because you eliminate the probabilities of alternative paths. It's one sided. A lower probability pathway like a full rebuild was still a valid consideration (Rutherford's quote) even if they chose to forgo it. Dismissing it as invalid only highlights the weakness of your argument.

On the Fantasy aspect: CHI did wipe the slate clean by dealing Dach and DeBrincat in order to tank and draft Bedard. Or, simply because they felt that Dach/DeBrincat weren't good enough to build around. Another that comes to mind is Eichel-Reinhart being dealt from BUF in order to restart their franchise with Thompson-Dahlin the reins. It happens.
 
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racerjoe

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I think management willingly sacrificed on future team ceiling in order to prioritize the now. Drance has said the same. Is he wrong/negative for saying this? No. He's accurate. They made a conscious decision to keep with the Benning plan (though with much better execution), rather than build from a deeper base of prospects and picks. It's very simple really.

Severson is an example of paying for now players with money rather than futures. He's a lesser player to Hronek (who is about to break the bank himself), but then you would also be using NYI's 1st at the draft (Maybe for Sandin-Pellika).

Judging by what the team has done with their 4 recent UFA signings, it seemed more a matter of getting NHL quality depth than seeing Hughes-Hronek dominate. Hughes carries that pairing and would have done so with Severson as well, though with lesser results (fine).





It just continues to amaze me how you're able to project what would and would not have happened given a strategy. Like "could have worked a year or two earlier" or "not where the Canucks were"... What are the lotto numbers going to be?

Racerjoe, your static position remains incorrect because you eliminate the probabilities of alternative paths. It's one sided. A lower probability pathway like a full rebuild was still a valid consideration (Rutherford's quote) even if they chose to forgo it. Dismissing it as invalid only highlights the weakness of your argument.

On the Fantasy aspect: CHI did wipe the slate clean by dealing Dach and DeBrincat in order to tank and draft Bedard. Or, simply because they felt that Dach/DeBrincat weren't good enough to build around. Another that comes to mind is Eichel-Reinhart being dealt from BUF in order to restart their franchise with Thompson-Dahlin the reins. It happens.

It amazes me that you project something... than try and hit me on the wrists for saying another projection... meanwhile you have players (Hughes) saying they would not stick around...


My static position is your position doesn't matter because it is not based in reality... BECAUSE THE PLAYERS HAVE ALL BUT STATED THEY WOULDN'T STAY.

Eichel wanted out because of mismanagment... That lead to their rebuild... again.

Are you trying to compare Dach to any of Hughes Petterson and Demko? And again, those players have said they wouldn't stay...
 

Bleach Clean

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It amazes me that you project something... than try and hit me on the wrists for saying another projection... meanwhile you have players (Hughes) saying they would not stick around...


What projection have I denied you? Please be specific.


My static position is your position doesn't matter because it is not based in reality... BECAUSE THE PLAYERS HAVE ALL BUT STATED THEY WOULDN'T STAY.

Eichel wanted out because of mismanagment... That lead to their rebuild... again.

Are you trying to compare Dach to any of Hughes Petterson and Demko? And again, those players have said they wouldn't stay...


It doesn't matter if Dach compares now, he was a 21 year old top3 pick at that time. Did you know back then he would not become a 1C? Do you know now?

Did Eichel and Reinhart get traded at roughly the same age as Pettersson? Yes. They rebuilt again. Yes. (Oh btw, you could have made a case for the Canucks being mismanaged prior to the 4 UFA signings. It wasn't that long ago...)

What Pettersson and Hughes say matters as much as Rutherford saying he thought a rebuild was fair to consider... No one person holds the hammer with their statements. It's all about what actually gets done/what actually transpires.
 
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racerjoe

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What projection have I denied you? Please be specific.





It doesn't matter if Dach compares now, he was a 21 year old top3 pick at that time. Did you know back then he would not become a 1C? Do you know now?

Did Eichel and Reinhart get traded at roughly the same age as Pettersson? Yes. They rebuilt again. Yes. (Oh btw, you could have made a case for the Canucks being mismanaged prior to the 4 UFA signings. It wasn't that long ago...)

What Pettersson and Hughes say matters as much as Rutherford saying he thought a rebuild was fair to consider... No one person holds the hammer with their statements. It's all about what actually gets done/what actually transpires.



Yeah wht a player says matters... See Tkachuk....

Yes it was pretty obvious Dach wasn't going to be a Petterson or Hughes... Demko... fine he is a goalie I guess thats different....

Circumstances do matter because its why those players HAD to be traded...
 

Bleach Clean

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Yeah wht a player says matters... See Tkachuk....

Yes it was pretty obvious Dach wasn't going to be a Petterson or Hughes... Demko... fine he is a goalie I guess thats different....

Circumstances do matter because its why those players HAD to be traded...


Did it happen, yes or no? (Circumstances weren't that great here either)

I will reiterate: What projection have I denied you? Please be specific.

Dach didn't need to be Pettersson or Hughes to be a building block. He just had to project out to a 1C. You're saying that he was not that quality of player. Ok. Was Pettersson that quality of player at 23, where he had an abysmal season? Did you know at that time he would be a 100+ point player? I know I didn't, and I backed the Pettersson and Hughes picks. It's an amazing projection on your part if you did.

As to what they say, need I post the Rutherford "Major Surgery" presser? Which one do we believe? If we take it all into account, then rebuilding was a fair statement in addition to Hughes and Pettersson threatening an exit on a rebuild. If none is taken into account, then everything including a deep re-tool was on the table. Fair?
 
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Orr4Norris

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‘I would welcome a rebuild. It would give me an opportunity to work on my golf game’
-said no player ever

‘I just want the biggest contract. Could care less if I’m on a competitive team. Actually, if it’s not competitive, I could enjoy my money more’
-said no player ever

I mean maybe a player has said these things in the past…but I would imagine if they did, it didn’t go over very well lol
 

Petey But Really Jim

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‘I would welcome a rebuild. It would give me an opportunity to work on my golf game’
-said no player ever

‘I just want the biggest contract. Could care less if I’m on a competitive team. Actually, if it’s not competitive, I could enjoy my money more’
-said no player ever

I mean maybe a player has said these things in the past…but I would imagine if they did, it didn’t go over very well lol
Maybe not on camera or even out loud.
 

racerjoe

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Did it happen, yes or no? (Circumstances weren't that great here either)

I will reiterate: What projection have I denied you? Please be specific.

Dach didn't need to be Pettersson or Hughes to be a building block. He just had to project out to a 1C. You're saying that he was not that quality of player. Ok. Was Pettersson that quality of player at 23, where he had an abysmal season? Did you know at that time he would be a 100+ point player? I know I didn't, and I backed the Pettersson and Hughes picks. It's an amazing projection on your part if you did.

As to what they say, need I post the Rutherford "Major Surgery" presser? Which one do we believe? If we take it all into account, then rebuilding was a fair statement in addition to Hughes and Pettersson threatening an exit on a rebuild. If none is taken into account, then everything including a deep re-tool was on the table. Fair?




It just continues to amaze me how you're able to project what would and would not have happened given a strategy. Like "could have worked a year or two earlier" or "not where the Canucks were"... What are the lotto numbers going to be?


But whatever… you clearly care more about the wrong things if you don’t look at details… this just goes back to why don’t we just trade Meyers for Makar… think of how good we would be.
 

DFAC

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Vancouver media is terrible. Period. Always stirring something up - its no wonder players dont want to play here. I wouldn't
 
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Reverend Mayhem

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Was Pettersson that quality of player at 23, where he had an abysmal season? Did you know at that time he would be a 100+ point player? I know I didn't, and I backed the Pettersson and Hughes picks. It's an amazing projection on your part if you did.

I did, actually.

Anyways where are we with IMac? Is he back on the pisswagon or is he still drinking the blue berry juice? f***in guy.

Special thanks to Rink Wide and Canucks Conversation for keeping me updated on games I can't watch anymore. The only two half-decent media programmes in the Vancouver sports scene. There used to be so many. (sidebar: f*** you, Bell) But CC especially was a very informative as well as an entertaining listen. Faber was a rockstar, but Quads is a rapscallion little firecracker with a knack to the gab, that is, has the unique talent of making any topic interesting. I find him oddly endearing. I don't know. Wherever he is, I pray he is getting an adequate amount of vitamin D.
 
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Bgav

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Don Taylor making up rumors about how Zadorov is perceived by other players and then not saying anything today when the speculation was shut down... rubs me the wrong way
 

TruGr1t

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Don Taylor making up rumors about how Zadorov is perceived by other players and then not saying anything today when the speculation was shut down... rubs me the wrong way

Somebody in the industry said something, Brough brought it up on his show as well, though he said he was hesitant to say anything about it as he wasn't that confident in the source. So while it may have been questionably sourced, it wasn't "made up" by Taylor. Brough heard the same thing.
 

Huggy43

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I love the morning show but Brough is kinda starting to annoy me a bit now too.
(along with Taylor)

All these guys said during the Benning era that they wanted winning hockey because a winning team is earlier to cover, yet they still focus on things that could be seen as a negative.
 

Bgav

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Somebody in the industry said something, Brough brought it up on his show as well, though he said he was hesitant to say anything about it as he wasn't that confident in the source. So while it may have been questionably sourced, it wasn't "made up" by Taylor. Brough heard the same thing.
Brough heard nothing about him being a problem on or off the ice. He just said he heard his name in rumors. Brough this morning reiterated he didn't hear anything about the other stuff.
 
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