Value of: The Tkachuks to Philly

[cwede]

given that
(a) Philly wouldn't trade Provorov
and besides,
(b) they can't trade Provorov twice
this ain't gonna happen

 

[blankall]

You keep dreaming. Tkachuck and Konecny have almost the same goal total so your, Tkachuk has developed much better is hilarious. Getting drafted higher means absolutely nothing ! You want Provorov, Who just might be one of the best young defenseman in the league, You're adding more than Tkachuk

Firstly, goal total is the only similarity between the two and Tkachuk did it in 13 fewer games at almost a full year younger. What Tkachuk brings to the table goes well beyond his goal totals. Tkachuk is one of the best pests in the game, he's physical, and he is a leader. These skills will only grow, as he's only 20 now. Konecny is undersized and doesn't have any of Tkachuk's intangibles, which add just as much to his value as his point totals.

Tkachuk's totals also came from on an injury riddled team that gave up on life for the last quarter of the season. The Flyers were a much more conducive atmosphere to success.

Tkachuk is emerging as a leader on the Flames. If you can't see the value in that and why he not one of the best young players, period, in the NHL, then you aren't assessing him properly.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

Both Tkachuks will be on the Blues one day.


IT IS THEIR DESTINY

 

[Starat327]

given that
(a) Philly wouldn't trade Provorov
and besides,
(b) they can't trade Provorov twice
this ain't gonna happen

I'm not sure I understand B. I'm hoping it is meant how I'm reading it, though.

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Both Tkachuks will be on the Blues one day.


IT IS THEIR DESTINY

I'm going to come back a year later and see if your prediction was correct.

 

[TheGoldenGod]

I'm going to come back a year later and see if your prediction was correct.

Not next year boss man but one day...

 

[FameFlame069]

If you recall the Matthew value thread about a month or two ago, I started it.
I would only have two ways for us to trade him 1v1 for a young top 6 RHS RW or in a 1v2 for two young middle six RHS players (C and RW or two RW)

 

[Vancouver Canucks]

Not next year boss man but one day...

Gotcha.

 

[Rangediddy]

Not that I would do it, but if you wanted a starting point:

Tkachuk
Hamilton

for

Konecny
Provorov

And that's only from a value prospective. This still doesn't even help the Flames positionally.

 

[Mackiaveli]

I realize this is highly unlikely, but what would it cost the Flyers to get Matthew Tkachuk from Calgary and then move up in the draft to take Brady Tkachuk?

Far, far more than you'd be willing to give.

I think Tkachuk is pretty much immovable, but to get the needle to move you'd have to give up pieces you'd never want to, like Provorov or Konency+

Not saying it's fair, as that's a rabbit hole I don't want to go down, just thats what it would likely take.

How about a 3-way trade including Montreal?

Habs:

+Morgan Frost
+Philippe Myers
+Sam Morin
+TJ Brodie

-3rd Overall Pick
-Habs 1st 2019
-Max Pacioretty

Flyers:
+3rd Overall
+Tkachuk
+ Pacioretty

-Frost
-Myers
-Morin
- Nolan Patrick
- 14th OA
- 19th OA

Flames:

+Patrick
+Flyers 2018 1st (19th OA)
+Blues 2018 1st (14th OA)
+Habs 1st 2019

-Tkachuk
-Brodie

Habs get a real C prospect who is NHL ready, some magic bean defenseman and a solid LD who can play alongside Weber.

Flyers get the 3rd overall pick and either draft Tkachuk at 3 over Zadina or swap with Ottawa if Svechnikov is available for some additional pieces, as well as Matty. They also get an elite LW to slot in on the top line with Giroux and Voracek

Flames go from two picks in the first 3 rounds of 2018/2019 (1/3 in 2019) to having four first round picks in two years, and get an NHL ready 2C.

Habs Lines:

Drouin/X/Gallagher
Galchenyuk/Frost/X
Lehkonen/Danault/Scherbak
Deslauriers/Hudon/Byron

Brodie/Weber
Mete/Petry
Morin/Myers

Flyers Lines:

Patches/Giroux/Voracek
Tkachuk/Couturier/Tkachuk
Weal/Konecny/Simmonds
Lehtera/Laughton/Weise

Provorov/Ghost
Hagg/Gudas
X/MacDonald

Flames Lines:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Ferland
Bennett/Patrick/Backlund
Dube/Shore/Foo
Frolik/Jankowski/Brouwer

Giordano/Hamilton
Valimaki/Hamonic
Kulak/Stone (Andersson)

Flames could look to do a trade like Brouwer, Frolik, Backlund and Stone to Carolina for Skinner and Zykov, and then they Flames could sign two of Neal, JVR, Perron, Kane or Maroon.

making it look more like:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Neal
Skinner/Patrick/Ferland
Dube/Bennett/Foo
Maroon/Jankowski/Zykov

 

[Starat327]

How about a 3-way trade including Montreal?

Habs:

+Morgan Frost
+Philippe Myers
+Sam Morin
+TJ Brodie

-3rd Overall Pick
-Habs 1st 2019
-Max Pacioretty

Flyers:
+3rd Overall
+Tkachuk
+ Pacioretty

-Frost
-Myers
-Morin
- Nolan Patrick
- 14th OA
- 19th OA

Flames:

+Patrick
+Flyers 2018 1st (19th OA)
+Blues 2018 1st (14th OA)
+Habs 1st 2019

-Tkachuk
-Brodie

Habs get a real C prospect who is NHL ready, some magic bean defenseman and a solid LD who can play alongside Weber.

Flyers get the 3rd overall pick and either draft Tkachuk at 3 over Zadina or swap with Ottawa if Svechnikov is available for some additional pieces, as well as Matty. They also get an elite LW to slot in on the top line with Giroux and Voracek

Flames go from two picks in the first 3 rounds of 2018/2019 (1/3 in 2019) to having four first round picks in two years, and get an NHL ready 2C.

Habs Lines:

Drouin/X/Gallagher
Galchenyuk/Frost/X
Lehkonen/Danault/Scherbak
Deslauriers/Hudon/Byron

Brodie/Weber
Mete/Petry
Morin/Myers

Flyers Lines:

Patches/Giroux/Voracek
Tkachuk/Couturier/Tkachuk
Weal/Konecny/Simmonds
Lehtera/Laughton/Weise

Provorov/Ghost
Hagg/Gudas
X/MacDonald

Flames Lines:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Ferland
Bennett/Patrick/Backlund
Dube/Shore/Foo
Frolik/Jankowski/Brouwer

Giordano/Hamilton
Valimaki/Hamonic
Kulak/Stone (Andersson)

Flames could look to do a trade like Brouwer, Frolik, Backlund and Stone to Carolina for Skinner and Zykov, and then they Flames could sign two of Neal, JVR, Perron, Kane or Maroon.

making it look more like:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Neal
Skinner/Patrick/Ferland
Dube/Bennett/Foo
Maroon/Jankowski/Zykov

I wont speak to the other teams, but no from the Flyers. 2 of the people you listed at center arent centers.

 

[Lays]

You keep dreaming. Tkachuck and Konecny have almost the same goal total so your, Tkachuk has developed much better is hilarious. Getting drafted higher means absolutely nothing ! You want Provorov, Who just might be one of the best young defenseman in the league, You're adding more than Tkachuk

1. Goals scored doesn’t mean anything
2. Tkachuk has a MUCH better all around game although Konecny is definitely not a slouch all around

 

[Langdon Alger]

Couturier for the 4th

 

[AZviaNJ]

Realistically, probably something like:

Backlund
Tkachuk
Frolik

for

Couturier
Patrick
Konecny

I hope this is a joke. That Calgary offer doesn't get Patrick or Couturier.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I don’t know much about Tkachuk and Konecny. Stats wise they look pretty close. Are they pretty close?

Konecny is a hell of a hockey player and I screamed at my TV for our GM to take him somehow or trade to get a pick to take him. I would adore having him on our team. I also fully understand Philly fans not wanting to move him ever.

Tkachuk has some different elements to his game. Most obvious is his pest nature, and the fact he uses it to draw more penalties than he takes is a big one. Second and most important is his defensive play. He's been a huge part of arguably one of the best defensive lines in the NHL as a teenager the past two years. He starts primarily defensive zone starts with Backlund and Frolik, and I'm pretty confident he would have challenged for 65-70 points this year if not for injuries and suspensions (lol).

And not that it's a huge difference, but his rookie season was comparable to Konecny's while he was 18-19 and Konencny's season this year was while he was 20-21.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

I hope this is a joke. That Calgary offer doesn't get Patrick or Couturier.

You are better off not giving too much attention to OKG. He can make some good points sometimes, but his homer glasses are often overflowing with kool aid.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

You're out of your mind, or whoever thinks thats what it would take ! NEITHER Tkachuk can carry Provorov's jock !

As stated in the thread, you didn't seem to read my post. I downright said it likely wasn't fair.

 

[pmwlker]

How about a 3-way trade including Montreal?

Habs:

+Morgan Frost
+Philippe Myers
+Sam Morin
+TJ Brodie

-3rd Overall Pick
-Habs 1st 2019
-Max Pacioretty

Flyers:
+3rd Overall
+Tkachuk
+ Pacioretty

-Frost
-Myers
-Morin
- Nolan Patrick
- 14th OA
- 19th OA

Flames:

+Patrick
+Flyers 2018 1st (19th OA)
+Blues 2018 1st (14th OA)
+Habs 1st 2019

-Tkachuk
-Brodie

Habs get a real C prospect who is NHL ready, some magic bean defenseman and a solid LD who can play alongside Weber.

Flyers get the 3rd overall pick and either draft Tkachuk at 3 over Zadina or swap with Ottawa if Svechnikov is available for some additional pieces, as well as Matty. They also get an elite LW to slot in on the top line with Giroux and Voracek

Flames go from two picks in the first 3 rounds of 2018/2019 (1/3 in 2019) to having four first round picks in two years, and get an NHL ready 2C.

Habs Lines:

Drouin/X/Gallagher
Galchenyuk/Frost/X
Lehkonen/Danault/Scherbak
Deslauriers/Hudon/Byron

Brodie/Weber
Mete/Petry
Morin/Myers

Flyers Lines:

Patches/Giroux/Voracek
Tkachuk/Couturier/Tkachuk
Weal/Konecny/Simmonds
Lehtera/Laughton/Weise

Provorov/Ghost
Hagg/Gudas
X/MacDonald

Flames Lines:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Ferland
Bennett/Patrick/Backlund
Dube/Shore/Foo
Frolik/Jankowski/Brouwer

Giordano/Hamilton
Valimaki/Hamonic
Kulak/Stone (Andersson)

Flames could look to do a trade like Brouwer, Frolik, Backlund and Stone to Carolina for Skinner and Zykov, and then they Flames could sign two of Neal, JVR, Perron, Kane or Maroon.

making it look more like:

Gaudreau/Monahan/Neal
Skinner/Patrick/Ferland
Dube/Bennett/Foo
Maroon/Jankowski/Zykov

As a Flyers fan I’d honestly hang up so hard the phone would break. This sets us way back. Not to mention we have to play 2 wingers at centre to accommodate. Ouch.

 

[Starat327]

Couturier for the 4th

Nope.

 

[Langdon Alger]

Nope.

Worth a shot. Don’t think I’d trade the 4th to the Flyers anyway considering you guys are picking around 15th or so?

If we trade the pick without moving back, we’d want a really good player like Couturier. We’ll probably keep the pick anyway.

 

[Starat327]

Worth a shot. Don’t think I’d trade the 4th to the Flyers anyway considering you guys are picking around 15th or so?

If we trade the pick without moving back, we’d want a really good player like Couturier. We’ll probably keep the pick anyway.

I mean, i dont blame you for asking. But its just not a move the Flyers should make.

 

[BleedBlue14]

Can we please not combine them for a year or two? I'd really like to see those two cheapshot eachother all game lol

 

[Langdon Alger]

I mean, i dont blame you for asking. But its just not a move the Flyers should make.

Yeah, didn’t think you guys would want to make that deal. He had a great year.

 

[SB84]

To get both the Flyers are obviously going to have to overpay because that's how it works with high draft picks and young players. So keeping that in mind they would have to give up Provorov and Patrick at the very least. Provorov is obviously more valuable than either player but Patrick isn't quite enough imo so it balances out. Flyers not going to like it but as the OP asked, that's what would have to be the base.

 

[pmwlker]

To get both the Flyers are obviously going to have to overpay because that's how it works with high draft picks and young players. So keeping that in mind they would have to give up Provorov and Patrick at the very least. Provorov is obviously more valuable than either player but Patrick isn't quite enough imo so it balances out. Flyers not going to like it but as the OP asked, that's what would have to be the base.

This is logical. It would take an overpayment for sure by Philly. Provorov and Patrick for both Tkachuk brothers would be an overpayment I think we can all agree. I’d imagine Calgary takes the deal and Provorov takes over the number one role as Gio gets older and Patrick pencils in nicely as their 2c. Philly on the other hand wouldn’t take the deal. We would be back to looking for that long sought after potential number one defender as well as weakening our depth down the middle which also has been an issue. Adding two wingers isn’t worth the exchange.