Speculation: The Team Presidency Discussion Thread

[member 290103]

I would be happy with Gillis being brought back as President. I know some people hate the idea because that would guarantee Benning is fired immediately (there's no way Gillis would get through a conversation with Benning without calling him an idiot). But that's not going to happen. Listening to Gillis's segments on 1040, without openly saying it, I think he's fully moved on from this team and has no interest in working for the Aquilini's again.

If Krueger is the innovative progressive thinker that people claim he is, I would be happy to bring him in as our President. He would still need to find an intelligent GM to come in here and help run the team. I would like to see a lot more emphasis on analytics, as well as someone who can actually negotiate contracts. A complete revamping of our pro scouting department is needed as well.

Totally agree. In theory, Gillis would be excellent, but the way things were handled by the Aqualini's - the obvious insistence on hiring of Tortorella, the refusal to rebuild, etc., I think it's clear Gillis realizes he would never be able to properly operate with the freedom he'd need to enact his vision.

Whoever takes the job is basically going to have to go in and convince the Aqualini's they can be competitive fast and essentially try to hide rebuild moves. Linden mentioned a full all out rebuild and was terminated. The Aqualini's want a team that competes and wins now, and they are not willing to wait to get it.

Whoever takes the job, it will be a tough one. You are going to be tasked with working for owners with unrealistic expectations and the man you have for the job of constructing your roster has only shown he is completely incapable of doing just that. It's no wonder Dean Lombardi said no.

 

[hookshott]

I want the stuff people are smoking or the glue that people have been sniffing to believe after paying Gillis for years to stay home that he is going to come back and be the boss again.

Why not? How many times was Billy Martin the manager of the Yankees? (Hint: 5!)
Billy Martin - Wikipedia

 

[Jay Cee]

Why not? How many times was Billy Martin the manager of the Yankees? (Hint: 5!)
Billy Martin - Wikipedia

I'm well familiar with the reference. If our owner ever becomes that unhinged I am going to be one of the people demanding the team gets sold!

 

[F A N]

Totally agree. In theory, Gillis would be excellent, but the way things were handled by the Aqualini's - the obvious insistence on hiring of Tortorella, the refusal to rebuild, etc., I think it's clear Gillis realizes he would never be able to properly operate with the freedom he'd need to enact his vision.

Whoever takes the job is basically going to have to go in and convince the Aqualini's they can be competitive fast and essentially try to hide rebuild moves. Linden mentioned a full all out rebuild and was terminated. The Aqualini's want a team that competes and wins now, and they are not willing to wait to get it.

Whoever takes the job, it will be a tough one. You are going to be tasked with working for owners with unrealistic expectations and the man you have for the job of constructing your roster has only shown he is completely incapable of doing just that. It's no wonder Dean Lombardi said no.

To be fair, Gillis likely got the job in the first place by selling Aquilini that the Canucks were a few bold moves away from competing for the Stanley Cup. Gillis believed in the Detroit model. He believed in players earning the right to stay (i.e. anybody with an NTC/NMC). You hear Gillis and Gilman talk and they didn't believe in a 5 year rebuild.

If Aquilini wants Gillis back Gillis would likely want a promise from Aquilini that he would once again have autonomy. Sobasically if Aquilini wants to have Gillis back and Gillis is willing to come back but under his terms I think it can be done. But I think it would be a difficult reunion but not impossible.

 

[F A N]

Disagree. We do not yet have the building blocks. We are far, far away from contention.

We have 4 players who could conceivably form part of the next core. Stretch it to 5 with Stecher if you want. And that's assuming Hughes turns into a stud, which isn't a guarantee. Pretty much everyone else on the roster has marginal value, is eminently replaceable, or is useless deadweight.

Gillis knew he was walking into a team with prime Sedins (which he negotiated sweetheart contracts for), and a burgeoning Kesler, Edler, and Bieksa. In addition to a legitimate top-four Salo. He also had, y'know, a HOF goalie between the pipes. Then he immediately added two top-six forwards in Demitra and Sundin, and an effective 3rd line center in Wellwood.

The Canucks do not have the blueline ready to go for it yet. Stecher is solid, and I believe in Hughes, but there was a certified top-four already locked-in. With the chronically injured, aging, and declining Tanev/Edler combo, we do not.

We (obviously) don't have HOF calibre goaltending.

Bo/Petey/Boeser as of now are not of the same calibre of the Sedins and Kesler in Gillis' first season. The support pieces Benning has added up front are mostly trash, and I have zero faith in his ability to actually add any useful complementary pieces.

Outside of signing Panarin or Karlsson, there isn't anything the Canucks as an organization can do, besides draft and wait.

I think you are remembering things wrong. Gillis didn't negotiate sweetheart contracts for the Sedins. In fact, Gillis questioned whether they were front-line players and almost lost them if not for making a last minute trip to Sweden and last minute offer.

I don't remember the sentiment being that after the 2007-2008 season the Canucks were close to being contenders. The Sedins were seen as average 1st line players who didn't have the potential of Pettersson. Kesler was coming off a 21 goal 37 point season. He was not seen as a 2nd line C. That's why we were excited about Hodgson and Gillis going out and signing Sundin. If Gillis projected Kesler as a 2nd line Selke calibre C he would have gone out and signed Sundin. No one in their right minds would project Kesler to be a better 2nd line C than Horvat is now. Also, Edler was coming off a 20 point season and Bieksa played 34 games. The D was not good and Gillis' acquisitions of Hamhuis and Ehrhoff were keys.

That team missed the playoffs and for good reason. Brad Richards in his prime wouldn' t have made much difference.

The team did have Luongo but let's face it, HOF calibre goaltending is not seen as important as before.

My point is that the teams are similar. They have some building blocks in place and another top 10 draft pick coming. Gillis did a great job of adding the necessary pieces to turn the Canucks into legitimate Cup contenders/favourites. I don't think the moves Gillis made should be underestimated. Likewise I think this team has the building blocks and if the Canucks manage to add another star level player with the 10th overall pick and make some good trades and signings the team can contend.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

We need a well respected experienced guy who can lay down conditions with ownership before taking the job. Such as no interference from the owners.
Similar to what Lou Lam did in Toronto.
A weak, ‘yes man’ will just lead to a much longer rebuild.

 

[StreetHawk]

We need a well respected experienced guy who can lay down conditions with ownership before taking the job. Such as no interference from the owners.
Similar to what Lou Lam did in Toronto.
A weak, ‘yes man’ will just lead to a much longer rebuild.

It’s still up to the owners to hire said person or even interview those types of candidates.

 

[Hit the post]

It’s still up to the owners to hire said person or even interview those types of candidates.

And it’s up to those not desperate for a job willing to work with Fredo.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

My point is that the teams are similar. They have some building blocks in place and another top 10 draft pick coming. Gillis did a great job of adding the necessary pieces to turn the Canucks into legitimate Cup contenders/favourites. I don't think the moves Gillis made should be underestimated. Likewise I think this team has the building blocks and if the Canucks manage to add another star level player with the 10th overall pick and make some good trades and signings the team can contend.

I think his team had the necessary building blocks in place and felt rather optimistic going into the 2008-2009 season. A solid top 4 defense can always put you in the playoff race.

-Ohlund
-Salo
-Mitchell
-Bieksa

Right now? The situation is looking pretty dire on the back end.

-Edler UFA
-Tanev
-Hutton
-Hughes

Benning has this defense to show after 4 laughable seasons. Dear god.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

I think his team had the necessary building blocks in place and felt rather optimistic going into the 2008-2009 season. A solid top 4 defense can always put you in the playoff race.

-Ohlund
-Salo
-Mitchell
-Bieksa

Right now? The situation is looking pretty dire on the back end.

-Edler UFA
-Tanev
-Hutton
-Hughes

Benning has this defense to show after 4 laughable seasons. Dear god.

Gillis inherited that whole back end without having to lift a finger..and Hamhuis was coming here anyways (again,didnt have to lift a finger)

 

[Lindgren]

Holland was on 1040 this morning. He was pretty frank about his uncertainty regarding how things are going to go in Detroit this year. He sounded entirely open to the possibility of moving on after one year.

Seattle?
Vancouver?

I'm guessing Seattle, though perhaps they'll want to have their guy lined up earlier.

 

[StreetHawk]

Holland was on 1040 this morning. He was pretty frank about his uncertainty regarding how things are going to go in Detroit this year. He sounded entirely open to the possibility of moving on after one year.

Seattle?
Vancouver?

I'm guessing Seattle, though perhaps they'll want to have their guy lined up earlier.

Seattle should hire their GM this year. Give him time to assemble his staff. GM May need to wait out another year for certain executives contracts to expire before he can approach them.

NHL contracts run from July to June so you don’t want to be waiting until 2020 to hire your guy and then it’s a mad rush to hire scouts, assistants, etc.

 

[member 290103]

Gillis inherited that whole back end without having to lift a finger..and Hamhuis was coming here anyways (again,didnt have to lift a finger)

Which, I think we can all agree, is a better strategy than that of Bennings, which is to acquire bad defenseman and construct a d corps that is in the running for worst in the NHL, yes?

 

[ccjon]

Thanks to those who have responded. I'm definitely intrigued. If we bring in Krueger as President I just fear that he doesn't have the experience running an NHL team that he might still lean on Benning too much. But if Krueger comes in here and brings in his own guys and puts his own front office in place, then I'm all for it.

I'm not so sure on Krueger. Give this a read: Assessing the legacy left by Ralph Krueger’s Southampton chairmanship

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

Which, I think we can all agree, is a better strategy than that of Bennings, which is to acquire bad defenseman and construct a d corps that is in the running for worst in the NHL, yes?

And acquiring Ehrhoff as a PMD we needed along with Rome and Alberts as depth dman.

Okay, getting back on point. You best stay away from bad f***ing contracts, and bad contracts are often dished out on July 1st. Get your depth players for bargain prices after the UFA frenzy passes. Ensure you keep building through the draft.

Hopefully JB is visited by the three spirits of Free Agent Frenzy and he finally takes advantages of other teams cap hell to acquire decent pieces.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Holland was on 1040 this morning. He was pretty frank about his uncertainty regarding how things are going to go in Detroit this year. He sounded entirely open to the possibility of moving on after one year.

Seattle?
Vancouver?

I'm guessing Seattle, though perhaps they'll want to have their guy lined up earlier.

Yeah. I know certain Benning supporters will be quick to point to Holland's restructured contract in Detroit because they want to hold out hope that he won't come here, but Holland did nothing to dispel any rumours about him moving on. He also clearly still has that itch to be a GM and run a team. Based on that, the only stumbling block preventing him from coming here is that the Canucks are looking for a President and currently have a GM; however, if Benning were to be fired that would clear the way for Ken Holland to come here. I'd be fine with that.

 

[TruKnyte]

Yeah. I know certain Benning supporters will be quick to point to Holland's restructured contract in Detroit because they want to hold out hope that he won't come here, but Holland did nothing to dispel any rumours about him moving on. He also clearly still has that itch to be a GM and run a team. Based on that, the only stumbling block preventing him from coming here is that the Canucks are looking for a President and currently have a GM; however, if Benning were to be fired that would clear the way for Ken Holland to come here. I'd be fine with that.

If Holland told Aquilini that the only way he would come to Vancouver would be if he was GM, I would just move Benning to a different front office position (if straight up firing him isn't an option for whatever reason) and put Holland in. If Benning complains just show him the door and offer to drive him to the airport.

 

[y2kcanucks]

If Holland told Aquilini that the only way he would come to Vancouver would be if he was GM, I would just move Benning to a different front office position (if straight up firing him isn't an option for whatever reason) and put Holland in. If Benning complains just show him the door and offer to drive him to the airport.

From the reports, it sounds like the only reason Benning hasn't been fired is because ownership doesn't want to look like they're impatient. But I think, if they can bring in someone like Ken Holland that can be sold as someone who is a clear upgrade to the casual fans who only know certain names, and it would get over. Firing Benning to replace him with someone like Gilman or someone more unknown like a Bill Zito (or even Ralph Krueger) is a harder sell to the casual fan who doesn't know much about the game and thinks that Benning has done a good job the past 5 years while building the worst team in the past 4 while trying to make the playoffs because he's the first GM in NHL history to ever draft a good player high in the draft.

 

[TruKnyte]

From the reports, it sounds like the only reason Benning hasn't been fired is because ownership doesn't want to look like they're impatient. But I think, if they can bring in someone like Ken Holland that can be sold as someone who is a clear upgrade to the casual fans who only know certain names, and it would get over. Firing Benning to replace him with someone like Gilman or someone more unknown like a Bill Zito (or even Ralph Krueger) is a harder sell to the casual fan who doesn't know much about the game and thinks that Benning has done a good job the past 5 years while building the worst team in the past 4 while trying to make the playoffs because he's the first GM in NHL history to ever draft a good player high in the draft.

Sure, if optics are the only thing holding them back then just shift Benning into a different role and say he got a promotion, but give the real control to Holland. This summer is so important for the trajectory of this franchise that the team can't afford to f*** things up.

 

[Lindgren]

From the reports, it sounds like the only reason Benning hasn't been fired is because ownership doesn't want to look like they're impatient. But I think, if they can bring in someone like Ken Holland that can be sold as someone who is a clear upgrade to the casual fans who only know certain names, and it would get over. Firing Benning to replace him with someone like Gilman or someone more unknown like a Bill Zito (or even Ralph Krueger) is a harder sell to the casual fan who doesn't know much about the game and thinks that Benning has done a good job the past 5 years while building the worst team in the past 4 while trying to make the playoffs because he's the first GM in NHL history to ever draft a good player high in the draft.

My impression from the interview was that Holland isn't going anywhere for a year (or close to a year). The scenario I can see that lands Holland in Vancouver is that the Canucks are again out of the playoffs next season, with another couple of bad contracts having been added, and once again no significant extra picks heading into the draft. Benning gets fired; Holland gets hired.

There'd be little danger, if that's how it plays out, of anyone accusing ownership of impatience.

 

[y2kcanucks]

My impression from the interview was that Holland isn't going anywhere for a year (or close to a year). The scenario I can see that lands Holland in Vancouver is that the Canucks are again out of the playoffs next season, with another couple of bad contracts having been added, and once again no significant extra picks heading into the draft. Benning gets fired; Holland gets hired.

There'd be little danger, if that's how it plays out, of anyone accusing ownership of impatience.

If that's how it plays out we might as well trade Horvat because his cheap contract will be wasted.

 

[Hit the post]

I don't remember the sentiment being that after the 2007-2008 season the Canucks were close to being contenders. The Sedins were seen as average 1st line players who didn't have the potential of Pettersson. Kesler was coming off a 21 goal 37 point season. He was not seen as a 2nd line C. That's why we were excited about Hodgson and Gillis going out and signing Sundin. If Gillis projected Kesler as a 2nd line Selke calibre C he would have gone out and signed Sundin. No one in their right minds would project Kesler to be a better 2nd line C than Horvat is now. Also, Edler was coming off a 20 point season and Bieksa played 34 games. The D was not good and Gillis' acquisitions of Hamhuis and Ehrhoff were keys.

That team missed the playoffs and for good reason. Brad Richards in his prime wouldn' t have made much difference.

The team did have Luongo but let's face it, HOF calibre goaltending is not seen as important as before.

Unless I have the season's mixed up, wasn't Luongo pretty distracted that year (I seem to recall his wife going thru a difficult pregnancy). We'll never know for sure, but I think that had an impact on his performance that season.

 

[The Drop]

Gillis inherited that whole back end without having to lift a finger..and Hamhuis was coming here anyways (again,didnt have to lift a finger)

Do you have a source for Hamhuis coming here anyways?

 

[m9]

I would welcome Holland in a scenario where he is President/GM but has a good group of assistant GM's with the plan being to phase him into the strictly President role within 5 years.

 

[member 290103]

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