The Tank Megathread | VI --- All Tank Talk & Standings Talk [Mod Warning Post 535]

[GailWilliams]

Sorry, any argument that starts with getting Auston Matthews isn't good for this franchise loses me.

Why is starting the rebuild in earnest in 2-3 years better than starting it now? Do you really want to watch 2-3 more years of this boring, slopping hockey than you have to? I know the rebuild is going to be painful, but the sooner it starts the sooner it can potentially lead to something good to watch on the ice. And if you are satisfied with watching Horvat, Baertschi, McCann, Virtanen, Hutton play well and start to form a bigger part of this team's core (which is the only part that i do enjoy these days), well imagine how much you would enjoy watching Matthews or Laine or Nylander be part of that group as well.

I do appreciate the thought you've put into your post and it is 100x better than most of the half-assed attempts to shove a "losing is for losers" narrative down our throats, but I don't think there is any strong rational for not rebuilding today. In my view, teams should either be competing for a cup or building towards competing for a cup. Since this team is clearly not actually competing for anything except a first round punting, I view anything that isn't contributing to a rebuild as just procrastinating and wasting time.

I don't think it needs to be binary, though I see what you're saying. I think the Canucks bottoming out this year would likely be the end of WD, but not Benning. Without a good supporting cast (specifically at the back end) this team is not a contender, even with Matthews. Playoff bubble team perhaps, but I don't think we're one center away from competing with the likes of Chicago, Dallas etc. My argument is that drafting 6-10 this year and grabbing a Chychrun, Sergachyov, Juolevi could actually turn out to be a net positive for the franchise. Which is not to say that I'll be disappointed if we get Matthews, but I don't want Jim Benning in charge of this team when they can potentially contend and I worry that adding a star player now will give him job security.

 

[CanaFan]

I don't think it needs to be binary, though I see what you're saying. I think the Canucks bottoming out this year would likely be the end of WD, but not Benning. Without a good supporting cast (specifically at the back end) this team is not a contender, even with Matthews. Playoff bubble team perhaps, but I don't think we're one center away from competing with the likes of Chicago, Dallas etc. My argument is that drafting 6-10 this year and grabbing a Chychrun, Sergachyov, Juolevi could actually turn out to be a net positive for the franchise. Which is not to say that I'll be disappointed if we get Matthews, but I don't want Jim Benning in charge of this team when they can potentially contend and I worry that adding a star player now will give him job security.

I get what you're saying however adding defensive depth is a far easier task than acquiring a true elite 1C. Like not even close. Using this year's draft as an example of what future drafts could look like, we could draft Matthews this year and still be able to add a Juolevi/Sergachyov talent (7-10 range) next year then add a Fabbro/Bean/McAvoy talent (12-18) the following year. Those types of players can be acquired in just about any draft but if you want an elite 1C (or even an elite 1D like Ekblad) you need to be drafting at the top of the pile. And maybe we'll get there next year or maybe next year will go exactly like this year and we'll be in that grey, mushy 8-14 range where you can get good talent but not likely elite talent.

As for what it does to Benning, well no GM has ever been fired for winning too much and few keep their jobs for losing too much, so I still view a full on tank season as the best way to turf WD and Benning, especially if we happen to pick up an elite talent along the way. Doesn't look like it will go that way at the moment, but that remains my hope.

 

[GailWilliams]

I get what you're saying however adding defensive depth is a far easier task than acquiring a true elite 1C. Like not even close. Using this year's draft as an example of what future drafts could look like, we could draft Matthews this year and still be able to add a Juolevi/Sergachyov talent (7-10 range) next year then add a Fabbro/Bean/McAvoy talent (12-18) the following year. Those types of players can be acquired in just about any draft but if you want an elite 1C (or even an elite 1D like Ekblad) you need to be drafting at the top of the pile. And maybe we'll get there next year or maybe next year will go exactly like this year and we'll be in that grey, mushy 8-14 range where you can get good talent but not likely elite talent.

As for what it does to Benning, well no GM has ever been fired for winning too much and few keep their jobs for losing too much, so I still view a full on tank season as the best way to turf WD and Benning, especially if we happen to pick up an elite talent along the way. Doesn't look like it will go that way at the moment, but that remains my hope.

Yeah that's a good point, you're definitely right about 1Cs being the hardest to acquire. I think this team either drafts 6-10 or 15-16 this season, and I really like the players available 6-10. Getting into the top 5 is going to require winning the lottery, despite how bad the Canucks have been they're still better than atleast five other teams. Its kind of a weird year to tank given how unbelievably bad the Pacific has been, I suspect this will change in the next couple of years as the Alberta teams improve.

 

[fancouver]

I get what you're saying however adding defensive depth is a far easier task than acquiring a true elite 1C. Like not even close. Using this year's draft as an example of what future drafts could look like, we could draft Matthews this year and still be able to add a Juolevi/Sergachyov talent (7-10 range) next year then add a Fabbro/Bean/McAvoy talent (12-18) the following year. Those types of players can be acquired in just about any draft but if you want an elite 1C (or even an elite 1D like Ekblad) you need to be drafting at the top of the pile. And maybe we'll get there next year or maybe next year will go exactly like this year and we'll be in that grey, mushy 8-14 range where you can get good talent but not likely elite talent.

As for what it does to Benning, well no GM has ever been fired for winning too much and few keep their jobs for losing too much, so I still view a full on tank season as the best way to turf WD and Benning, especially if we happen to pick up an elite talent along the way. Doesn't look like it will go that way at the moment, but that remains my hope.

It's kind of ironic if you think about it.

Missing the playoffs means our young guys are not providing secondary scoring. That doesn't bode well for the future either.

Whereas, if we make the playoffs, it means everyone's contributing....like now. Markstrom is playing like a #1 goalie. Baertschi and Horvat are scoring consistently. Hutton is one of our top 4 D, and some nights, top 3. Virt's delivering heavy hits. Even Vey and Etem are contributing and providing a lot of offensive pressure.

For me, it's fun to watch all these young guys play. And winning, especially against BOS, CGY, EDM, LA, ANA, CHI.... is always fun.

 

[GailWilliams]

It's kind of ironic if you think about it.

Missing the playoffs means our young guys are not providing secondary scoring. That doesn't bode well for the future either.

Whereas, if we make the playoffs, it means everyone's contributing....like now. Markstrom is playing like a #1 goalie. Baertschi and Horvat are scoring consistently. Hutton is one of our top 4 D, and some nights, top 3. Virt's delivering heavy hits. Even Vey and Etem are contributing and providing a lot of offensive pressure.

For me, it's fun to watch all these young guys play. And winning, especially against BOS, CGY, EDM, LA, ANA, CHI.... is always fun.

Yeah I'm in the same boat. I don't want Horvat, Hutton, Virtanen and the others playing in a toxic environment but I also don't want a near miss or first round exit where we draft 12-16th. Tough to have it both ways