Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Something Happened!

[mpp9]

I would have signed Rust longterm in the summer at 2.5 mil without blinking. You know what you have with him. Now if he flanks Sid or Geno all season, he’s going to demand over 3 and that’s where it might get dicey when you factor in Guentzel, Murray and PH extensions.

Sprong will almost have to replace Kessel in a couple years to make the cap work.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hornqvist at 5.5 x 5 would be like the Kunitz extention, there would be a real chance the final two years get brutal but it's probably worth the short-term risk... there is the real chance he gets woefully overpaid elsewhere though...

I think if you look past the fact Kunitz was perceived as a top six option by multiple coaching staffs the last Kunitz deal was insanely effective. .5ppg in the playoffs both years and around 30 pts for around 3.75 mil is total value. If Hornqvist is putting up that kind of numbers on 5.5 it is going to hurt the team.

That being said, I don't think Hornqvist drops off like that at 35. He has the play style that likely won't be effected by age unless he takes major concussion damage and even then he is probably worth 5 mil for what he brings to a powerplay.

 

[harmonica]

I don't see Horny dropping off. His physique and commitment to staying in shape is incredible. Plus, with what he brings(especially in the post season) who do you even replace him with on or off our roster?

I am honestly fine if he walks after this playoffs for a big paycheck(only for this reason), he earned it, especially if we threepeat. It will suck, but this is business. Obviously the homer in me wants him to resign and for the same(or less?!?!?).

 

[EightyOne]

I don't see Horny dropping off. His physique and commitment to staying in shape is incredible. Plus, with what he brings(especially in the post season) who do you even replace him with on or off our roster?

I am honestly fine if he walks after this playoffs for a big paycheck(only for this reason), he earned it, especially if we threepeat. It will suck, but this is business. Obviously the homer in me wants him to resign and for the same(or less?!?!?).

He'll be effective at least five more years. He's gotta be close to Holmstrom in style, strength, and ability.

Net front presence is nice to have.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I think if you look past the fact Kunitz was perceived as a top six option by multiple coaching staffs the last Kunitz deal was insanely effective. .5ppg in the playoffs both years and around 30 pts for around 3.75 mil is total value. If Hornqvist is putting up that kind of numbers on 5.5 it is going to hurt the team.

That being said, I don't think Hornqvist drops off like that at 35. He has the play style that likely won't be effected by age unless he takes major concussion damage and even then he is probably worth 5 mil for what he brings to a powerplay.

I agree with this, but I'd say that the risk with Hornqvist isn't going to be his head, it's going to be his knees or back, given the punishment he takes.

Also, I'd like to point out above, with reference to Harmonica's, that EVERY player is going to have a drop off, so we'll have to reckon with that eventually, if we keep him around. Horny's routine may slow the decline, and it might hold it off for a while, but eventually the damage will catch up with him, especially those crosschecks to the lower back. It's not a reason not to resign Hornqvist at all, but it IS a reason we should be careful not to give him a crazy, Montreal-esque contract.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'd much prefer to keep Hornqvist under 3 or 4 years, if possible. Just because the Penguins really need him isn't an excuse to give him a ridiculous contract.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I'd say Hornqvist will be good until the wheels fall off but....what wheels?

As for length....5 years is a little risky. He'd be 35 by then. But, so will Sid, Letang, Kessel and Malkin will be 36. It will be a roster full of old farts. Might have to go a little shorter with Hornqvist and replace him with some young blood before then.

 

[ColePens]

I'd say Hornqvist will be good until the wheels fall off but....what wheels?

As for length....5 years is a little risky. He'd be 35 by then. But, so will Sid, Letang, Kessel and Malkin will be 36. It will be a roster full of old farts. Might have to go a little shorter with Hornqvist and replace him with some young blood before then.

The way he plays... why would he do it? He should be looking long term to secure his contract just in case it's the final one. He's literally one wrong shot, one wrong crosscheck, one wrong bounce from having a career ending injury. You can say that about all players, but 99% of the players don't make their office in the middle of 90mph slapshots and crosschecking 200+lb defenders.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Sending Chris Summers was kind of a interesting move, why would they send down their 7th def?

The only reason i can think of is JR is trying to get as much cap space as possible for somebody.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

The way he plays... why would he do it? He should be looking long term to secure his contract just in case it's the final one. He's literally one wrong shot, one wrong crosscheck, one wrong bounce from having a career ending injury. You can say that about all players, but 99% of the players don't make their office in the middle of 90mph slapshots and crosschecking 200+lb defenders.

I'm not saying he will. If it's term he really wants, he could get 6 years from somebody. Maybe even 7, GMs are pretty stupid at times. On the flip side, why would the Pens do it? You said it yourself, he plays a hard game and has a lot of miles on him already.

Look, I love Hornqvist. I respect what he brings to this team but I don't want to end up hating him because he is given too long of a contract like what happened with Kunitz. A lot of that was Kunitz being played more than he should but do we want a 35 year old Hornqvist making $5 million a year playing on the 4th line?

 

[canadianguy77]

I think a lot of people are expecting another round of compliance buyouts at the end of the current CBA. I think he'll hold up fine at least until then.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean, Kuni is seeing occasional minutes with Stamkos and Kucherov. So maybe we should just realize Kunitz was a top nine forward here who put up 10+ in three cup championships.

Also, Kuni put up 40 pts at 35 and 36.

 

[Riptide]

I'd say Hornqvist will be good until the wheels fall off but....what wheels?

As for length....5 years is a little risky. He'd be 35 by then. But, so will Sid, Letang, Kessel and Malkin will be 36. It will be a roster full of old farts. Might have to go a little shorter with Hornqvist and replace him with some young blood before then.

36 actually. A new contract will take effect when he's 31.

 

[Riptide]

I mean, Kuni is seeing occasional minutes with Stamkos and Kucherov. So maybe we should just realize Kunitz was a top nine forward here who put up 10+ in three cup championships.

Also, Kuni put up 40 pts at 35 and 36.

All true. What's also true is that this board moaned and bitched about him for almost 3 straight years about him while he did so.

 

[Riptide]

I'm not saying he will. If it's term he really wants, he could get 6 years from somebody. Maybe even 7, GMs are pretty stupid at times. On the flip side, why would the Pens do it? You said it yourself, he plays a hard game and has a lot of miles on him already.

Look, I love Hornqvist. I respect what he brings to this team but I don't want to end up hating him because he is given too long of a contract like what happened with Kunitz. A lot of that was Kunitz being played more than he should but do we want a 35 year old Hornqvist making $5 million a year playing on the 4th line?

Everything you said is true. But you're still not likely to get him to sign a short contract (<4 years). It's basically a matter of whether you'll sign him to a 5/6 yr deal, or not... because those will be the only choices Rutherford has.

 

[Gurglesons]

All true. What's also true is that this board moaned and *****ed about him for almost 3 straight years about him while he did so.

Meh. Let people bitch and moan.

As myself as a perfect example, we are hardly ever right here about player evaluation.

 

[ColePens]

I'm not saying he will. If it's term he really wants, he could get 6 years from somebody. Maybe even 7, GMs are pretty stupid at times. On the flip side, why would the Pens do it? You said it yourself, he plays a hard game and has a lot of miles on him already.

Look, I love Hornqvist. I respect what he brings to this team but I don't want to end up hating him because he is given too long of a contract like what happened with Kunitz. A lot of that was Kunitz being played more than he should but do we want a 35 year old Hornqvist making $5 million a year playing on the 4th line?

I think your point is extremely valid, but im willing to gamble due to how important he is to this team. Ill gamble he doesn't get hurt or decline horrifically. I could very well roll the dice and come up empty.

 

[Don'tcry4mejanhrdina]

I'd certainly rather sign him for 5 years than lose him for nothing. I just hope he holds up that long.

 

[canadianguy77]

I mean, Kuni is seeing occasional minutes with Stamkos and Kucherov. So maybe we should just realize Kunitz was a top nine forward here who put up 10+ in three cup championships.

Also, Kuni put up 40 pts at 35 and 36.

The same Kunitz who is on pace for 23 points whilst playing some minutes with Kucherov and Stamkos? Lol.
If you can't see the guy was garbage here his last few years with us I don't know what to tell you. He couldn't even crack double-digit goals last season playing most of it with either Malkin or Crosby.

 

[Gurglesons]

The same Kunitz who is on pace for 23 points whilst playing some minutes with Kucherov and Stamkos? Lol.
If you can't see the guy was garbage here his last few years with us I don't know what to tell you. He couldn't even crack double-digit goals last season playing most of it with either Malkin or Crosby.

Kunitz isn't forcing himself into where he plays. This is four coaching staffs in a row that have played him as a top nine forward despite him being "garbage".

I'm not saying Kunitz is a great player now. Just that his demise isn't as bad as some with a clear agenda against him make it want to be. He helped us play HBK in 2016 by helping be a solid third option with Rust and Malkin and was a solid top nine forward in 2017 that produced in the Ottawa and Nash series when he was moved up.

If Hornqvist is Kunitz in 15-16 his last year on his contract we will be fine.

 

[PensPlz]

Hate to say it, but Hornqvist can turn into a Kunitz really fast... and I say that having a special soft spot for double OT Kunitz. So maybe it will be worth it in the end? Just hate to deal with the Horny wiping boy threads until then.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hornqvist and Kunitz really aren't comparable, Kunitz fell off because his skating and hands completely disappeared. Hornqvist was never a good skater and his hands have always been mediocre. Hornqvist probably wouldn't fall off in 5 years, because he doesn't play a style of game that should deteriorate with age. He's not flying around, hitting people and taking 1-timers from Crosby on the rush, he's getting dirty in front of the net and getting those garbage goals.

With that being said, they shouldn't give him a 5 year deal, though. It's just an unnecessary commitment to make to him. I'd give him $5 million at his choice of 3 or 4 years. If he wants longer, I'd probably walk away. I do not view Hornqvist to be important enough to potentially impact re-signing guys like Guentzel, Murray and Sprong down the line, nor do I think he'll be needed in the last 2 or 3 years if he'd get a 5 year deal. At that point, the Penguins should have a replacement for him, whether it be someone like ZAR, Bjorkqvist or someone from outside of the organization.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I'd certainly rather sign him for 5 years than lose him for nothing. I just hope he holds up that long.

Which is why the best option is to trade Hornqvist for a center. Everybody hates losing assets for nothing. So, don't.

There's no way we should be giving Hornqvist a new deal. He is a very good role player with a specific skill set. He is not indispensable. Sooner or later, Guentzel needs to be on the first PP unit; Sprong needs to be a top-9 RW; and Zach Aston-Reese COULD help replace some of the lost hitting ability and grit factor.

This team would be better right now with a new third-line center playing with Sprong on the third line, and with McKegg centering the fourth, than with keeping Hornqvist.

I don't see how people can say Hornqvist's play won't fall off. He has very little chemistry with either superstar center and is already on our third line, takes all kinds of abuse and punishment in front of the net, and is already an inconsistent point producer. And for that you are all willing to give him 5 years???

We need to do what we did when we let Scuderi go, Gill go, Fedotenko go, Talbot go, Bonino go, Cullen go, etc. We definitely should not do what we did when we re-signed Kunitz and Dupuis.

We have replacements on the wing, let's embrace it for once.

 

[Gurglesons]

He's not going to fall off because he puts up his goals like clockwork. He can be a 20 goal scorer due to his power play skills regardless of where you put him and he can play anywhere in the line-up.

Also, don't give him a NTC and trade him in two years if we can't afford Jake and Murray because of him.

Is Hornqvist making another mil or 1.5 against the cap worth losing him for this season and the next two? No.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

He's not going to fall off because he puts up his goals like clockwork. He can be a 20 goal scorer due to his power play skills regardless of where you put him and he can play anywhere in the line-up.

Also, don't give him a NTC and trade him in two years if we can't afford Jake and Murray because of him.

Is Hornqvist making another mil or 1.5 against the cap worth losing him for this season and the next two? No.

His back can go at any time. He will need his back in order to continue to take the punishment. And not giving him a NTC is a nice thought, but maybe he wants one? Trading him in two years might also be wishful thinking. If they kept Kunitz as long as they did without trading him, or Dupuis before his issues, or Fleury, they'll keep Horny too. This organization either keeps you or lets you go. They don't keep you today, and trade you away in a couple.

Life will go on without #72. I know it seems impossible, but it's true.