Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Something Happened!

[Riptide]

People on the main board are saying a 1st and Wilson for Haula is an overpayment, which is good because I'd do that deal in a second

I hope McPhee would feel the same way.

I'd offer that for any of Karlsson, Lindberg or Haula. Is it an over payment? Almost certainly. But I don't see a 2nd+ cutting it - at least not until the TD, and these are all good young(ish) players who are cost controlled for a couple of seasons, or in Karlsson's case, has 3 years of team control left.

Eakins... a little less willing to offer that up given his higher cap hit. But those other 3? Done. Easily.

Like I said. I Wouldn't mind the trade. Just think It's an overpayment. A guy who is a 30 point player is not worth a 1st imo.

It is an over payment... but you're not going to get one of these guys in a timely manor for a "fair price". At least not until closer to the TD - if it's even an option this year.

I mean if I'm selling my jeep because I want to free up funds (or for whatever reason) and have decided that selling it (or something similar) is the way to go... I'm going to be a lot more open to negotiating the price, then if someone calls me out of the blue and wants to buy it, but I'm not all that interested in selling it. It's the same thing with some of these guys. McPhee is probably open to moving most of the players on his roster - for a price... but the price of guys he wants to keep are going to be higher then the price of guys he's indifferent to. And considering how late our 2nd round pick is likely going to be (probably at least 25+ [WSH last year was #27])... I don't see how a 2nd+ Wilson (or whomever) is really going to cut it given the quality, age and controllable years left on the players we're talking about. These are not rentals who are 30+, these are guys in their mid 20s with 2-3+ years of team control left - with appealing cap hits.

 

[Riptide]

Did the Haula for Wilson+1st trade on CapFriendly. Approx $505,000 in cap space. IIRC you need about 1m in cap space so you can call up people for injuries unless someone goes on IR.(correct me if I’m wrong) The roster is with Archibald and Rowney playing 13th and 14th foward and Sprong still in minors. The only change made to the team is a swap of Haula and Wilson.

Depends on when in the year. Most trades do not happen until mid/late Nov (US Thanksgiving - not sure why they have it then... odd people ). Anyway, last year by that time, teams had played roughly 20 games. Which means in this example, LV would have already paid ~25% of Haula's cap hit... which means (in your example) we'd be shipping out ~470k and taking back ~2.1m. So we'd actually have a lot more than 500k in cap space left. This is the main advantage to not being buried with an LTIR contract (Dupuis, etc), and why even sucking things up for 1 month has some serious benefits to the team's cap situation.

On a side note, while the numbers you got from CF are likely correct, they do not really make many allowances for moves that happen after the start of the season with how salaries pro-rate over the course of the season. Towards the TD, they'll have a new number that accounts for this - kinda, but nothing to account for what another team has already paid someone when trading them.

 

[mpp9]

Haula is on IR and not playing center currently, yes?

He also played under 14 minutes a game last season. And closer to 12 in seasons past.

No problem with acquiring him, but if I’m sending out a first, I’d rather add something else signifcant and bring in someone who can anchor a scoring line. With Kessel at the very least.

Doesn’t seem like JR is gonna go after two centers with McKegg and Rowney looking competent. And the gap we need to bridge at center is Bonino+Cullen to ???-McKegg/Rowney.

Don’t think Haula does that.

 

[Riptide]

To folks worried about the cap problems with PH in three years (Guentzel's deal will largely come from Hags), I'm not sure what to say. You can just trade him or Kessel at that point, as our prime cup window will be ending anyways. If PH goes away next year, then I'm not seeing how you win another cup without a single, consistently effective forward who goes to the dirty areas. Washington has been trying to win like that for years, and they can't even get a sniff.

Do any of the following regularly go to the net?

Hagelin, Rust, Crosby, Wilson, Guentzel, Sheary? Are they as good at stirring up shit without taking penalties like Hornqvist? No. But while these guys are not Hornqvist, neither are they permimatar players like many of the Caps.

 

[WayneSid9987]

Last i heard any player other GM's really want off LV, ain't available right now. Also, now that they have injuries and can fit Ship in the lineup, they have zero pressure to make room for him.

Really, no C thats out there in the atmosphere atm, do i really want. List is pretty small right now, Sheahan.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Do any of the following regularly go to the net?

Hagelin, Rust, Crosby, Wilson, Guentzel, Sheary? Are they as good at stirring up **** without taking penalties like Hornqvist? No. But while these guys are not Hornqvist, neither are they permimatar players like many of the Caps.

Those guys are are good at going to the net, I’d even say Guentzel is starting to look very good in front of the net with screening and with talent, he can learn how to deflect more shots in and around the net, hell even Crosby is the world’s best at deflecting goals in from the side of the net, I’ve never seen a player deflect so many goals last year from side of the net as often as he did last year and he already has one this year.

The thing about Horny is that he is a ball of energy, is good for 45-50pts, is physical and a thorn on anyone’s side because the guy just doesn’t know how to quit playing at 100% and that’s why he’s so valuable. He brings it every shift, dude is just a freak with how amped he gets. Maybe he takes a little less to stick with the pens, like he re-ups for around 4.75-5/yr (which is a 750k-1m raise) for 5yrs instead of going for a huge pay day. It really depends on how he is used here this season, the way they use Hornqvist while simultaneously praising him is bizarre and I could see him wanting to explore his options, losing Hornqvist would be a huge loss, people that are ok seeing him moved, don’t know, but they’ll really feel it when he’s not just “out for a week or two” and the loss of Horny isn’t long enough to really let it sink in.

I know Hagelin is his BFF, I wish we saw more out of Hagelin, I really liked him on the Rangers even though he burned us often, but they keep playing him with Geno and he doesn’t work with Geno, oddly enough, I’m not sure why they haven’t tried him with Crosby for a longer stretch.

I fully think Hagelin’s problem is this coaching staff not identifying the right fit for him. The good is that Sheary and Guentzel are talented players that will look good in the top 9, the bad thing is Sullivan has such a one track mind with where he wants them.

 

[Riptide]

Maybe he takes a little less to stick with the pens, like he re-ups for around 4.75-5/yr (which is a 750k-1m raise) for 5yrs instead of going for a huge pay day. It really depends on how he is used here this season, the way they use Hornqvist while simultaneously praising him is bizarre and I could see him wanting to explore his options, losing Hornqvist would be a huge loss, people that are ok seeing him moved, don’t know, but they’ll really feel it when he’s not just “out for a week or two” and the loss of Horny isn’t long enough to really let it sink in.

Some, sure. But most are well aware of the hole he'll leave. They (like myself) are just more worried about the cap implications of keeping him and how that will shape the roster long term. It would be a lot different of Hornqvist regularly played with Crosby. Then, sure pay him the 5-5.5m he's likely going to get, and deal with any cap issues when they come up. But it gets a lot harder to stomach that - even recognizing the hole that will be left, when you know he's going to be spending most of his time on the 3rd line.

 

[ColePens]

I'm just happy we have Sully and he plays these kids. I heard an interview today with Babcock and he said the reason Marner is on the 4th line is because "a tie goes to the vet... how bout that?"

 

[Riptide]

I'm just happy we have Sully and he plays these kids. I heard an interview today with Babcock and he said the reason Marner is on the 4th line is because "a tie goes to the vet... how bout that?"

I think it depends on the vet. If you're talking JVR or someone equally productive (vs a washed up Kunitz)... then yeah I could see that. But if you're talking Komorav - someone who will be gone in 6 months... I struggle with that one. I get the theory, but it can't be that black and white. And especially not when talking about someone who has the potential to be a superstar for your franchise.

 

[Giskard]

This is George McPhee we're talking about, here. Mr. "trade Erat for Forsberg" himself. At this point, JR should offer someone like Hagelin for Cody Glass.

I think McPhee know pretty well he screw up that trade, so I don't think he will do the same mistake again. Indeed he is keeping all those D until he find the right trade, he is not in a hurry to screw up again like he did in WAS.

 

[Will Hunting]

Was discussed in a previous thread. Rust is definitely a core piece going forward. Hell of a player. Easily more important for us going forward than Kessel. Much better value in that contract and with his age as well.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Oops, I came onto the Leafs board by mistake... oh wait...

 

[Ogrezilla]

Oops, I came onto the Leafs board by mistake... oh wait...

dude he's only got 4 points in 6 games. Regression confirmed. Sad!

 

[AjaxTelamon]

Do any of the following regularly go to the net?

Hagelin, Rust, Crosby, Wilson, Guentzel, Sheary? Are they as good at stirring up **** without taking penalties like Hornqvist? No. But while these guys are not Hornqvist, neither are they permimatar players like many of the Caps.

To say those guys are not Hornqvist is rather an understatement, don't you think? And no, I don't think those players as a committee can make up for the loss of PH. I understand, you don't want to mortgage the future, but I don't see signing PH as mortgaging the future. I think there's plenty of flexibility down the road to deal with his cap hit, and I think he'll be a very productive player for years to come.

It may well be moot anyways, and we'll see how the Penguins perform without him in the lineup next year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

dude he's only got 4 points in 6 games. Regression confirmed. Sad!

The Kessel bashers around here never seem to learn... bashed him his first year, he shut them up; bashed him his second year, he shut them up... now they are at it again... they remind me of another Phil...

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Last i heard any player other GM's really want off LV, ain't available right now. Also, now that they have injuries and can fit Ship in the lineup, they have zero pressure to make room for him.

Really, no C thats out there in the atmosphere atm, do i really want. List is pretty small right now, Sheahan.

And there is no rush to trade for a center right now
Let LV cool off a little and come TD I'm sure they will have more than a few players made available

 

[HandshakeLine]

The Kessel bashers around here never seem to learn... bashed him his first year, he shut them up; bashed him his second year, he shut them up... now they are at it again... they remind me of another Phil...

Stop using that picture of me and Bill for your own ends, Jiggy.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Stop using that picture of me and Bill for your own ends, Jiggy.

You aren't fooling anyone boss...

We all know you are Ned Ryerson aka "Needlenose Ned".

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

To folks worried about the cap problems with PH in three years (Guentzel's deal will largely come from Hags), I'm not sure what to say. You can just trade him or Kessel at that point, as our prime cup window will be ending anyways. If PH goes away next year, then I'm not seeing how you win another cup without a single, consistently effective forward who goes to the dirty areas. Washington has been trying to win like that for years, and they can't even get a sniff.

I agree that you sign Horny and worry about who to move later, but we have to account for Murray's deal too, and he's due for a big pay hike. It's not just Guentzel.

 

[Andy99]

I agree that you sign Horny and worry about who to move later, but we have to account for Murray's deal too, and he's due for a big pay hike. It's not just Guentzel.

That's why I do think it's Horny or Kessel. I think if management re-signs Hornqvist it's with the plan to trade Phil this summer. We won't have room for both salaries in a couple years and I do think Rust will get a little more than people are expecting, maybe $3.5 mil. And he should be re-signed. I love his game...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kessel probably shouldn't be here by the time that Murray is up for extension, so I don't think either one of those two should be a problem to re-sign. Give Guentzel a 6-8 year, $6-$6.5 million AAV contract and try to get Murray as much below $7 million AAV on a long term deal as you can. Realistically, I think those two together will cost about $12-$13 million. Trading Kessel and the rising cap should take care of both of those.

 

[cheesedanish87]

Haula is on IR and not playing center currently, yes?

He also played under 14 minutes a game last season. And closer to 12 in seasons past.

No problem with acquiring him, but if I’m sending out a first, I’d rather add something else signifcant and bring in someone who can anchor a scoring line. With Kessel at the very least.

Doesn’t seem like JR is gonna go after two centers with McKegg and Rowney looking competent. And the gap we need to bridge at center is Bonino+Cullen to ???-McKegg/Rowney.

Don’t think Haula does that.

I dunno about that.

If you gave me a choice of Haula/Mckegg or Bonino/Cullen for this year i think id take the Haula/Mckegg combo.

I think Haula is a better player and better fit on the pens then Bonino, Mckegg wouldn't be as good as Cullen, but Cullen is another year older and probably a step slower this year.

I also think very little of Bonino compared to most pens fans, so i'd be probably be in the minority taking Haula/Mckegg.

 

[Riptide]

That's why I do think it's Horny or Kessel. I think if management re-signs Hornqvist it's with the plan to trade Phil this summer. We won't have room for both salaries in a couple years and I do think Rust will get a little more than people are expecting, maybe $3.5 mil. And he should be re-signed. I love his game...

I doubt it. The cap issues/concerns do not start next season (18/19), but the following one (19/20) when Guentzel needs his raise. Or the season after that (20/21) when you have to deal with Murray and Sheary and Schultz). I could see at that time, the debate being between those two... but the smart move (value wise) will always be to move Hornqvist given how strict Kessels NTC is (assuming that Hornqvist doesn't get an equally restrictive one on his next deal).

The ideal move for Pittsburgh regarding Hornqvist would be to extend him like how Kunitz got his deals from Shero (2 yrs, then 3 years). If there was any way we could get him for 3 years, you jump all over that and deal with it down the road. Moving him at 33 with 1 yr left is a minor issue. Moving him at 33 with 2-3 years left (or more) is significantly harder. Especially if he's making 5.5m and his production takes a dip.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Haula in the last 2 seasons put up a 16 goal, 33 point pace/82 games while playing 13:15 a game. That's marginally less than what Bonino did in his 2 years in Pittsburgh (15 goals and 38 points/82 games for Bonino), and Bonino had the luxury of playing with Kessel a lot and playing 3 more minutes per game than Haula, half of which was a difference of PP TOI/game (Haula was at 8 seconds, Bonino was at 1:40). I'm fully confident Haula would be a better 3C than Bonino, both in terms of how he fits on the Penguins (he's a much better skater I mean) and his effectiveness as a player. If you want a 3C that can do everything Bonino did, but better, Haula is your guy.

Haula/McKegg vs Bonino/Cullen is hard because of the big difference between McKegg and Cullen, but it's a clear advantage at the 3C spot for the first duo.

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Until the other day, Vegas had Shipachev, Tuch, and Theodore in the minors because GMGM didn't want to lose any of the plethora of young defenseman he hoarded on waivers. Theodore is still there because he isn't waiver-eligible yet. GMGM is not going to do us a favor and put himself further in a bind by taking back one of our waiver-eligible bottom-six forwards in a deal.