Salary Cap: The Salary Cap Thread | Something Happened!

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Going forward, you put Sheary back at LW, Hagelin to 4LW or traded, and Horny to the 3rd line. Sheary is a better LW than RW anyway. And he's a good fit with Hornqvist imo.

Also, I think it's funny that so many people are against Horny at 5M on the 3rd line but are perfectly fine with Kessel at 6.8M there.

The issue with Sheary at LW is that he's godawful defensively and none of our RW really excel in that regard. Hornqvist is probably the best of the bunch, but his defensive game is about board battles and blocking shots as opposed to separating guys from the puck and good gap control while the opposing guy is carrying the puck. It could work, and while I think Hagelin's a bit overpaid I don't think he's as bad as some people make him out to be (not you, but he's pretty vilified around here).

As for the Hornqvist/Kessel thing, it's not about the cap hit. It's about the line dynamic. I don't care if we're spending a big chunk on a third liner if we're trying to ice 3 scoring lines--we sorta need to in that case. My issue is that Hornqvist a $5M+ on the third line is nowhere near as effective a component as Kessel on that third line. Kessel's gonna control the pace, drive defenders back with his speed and do what he does with his shot ad his passing ability. Hornqvist, for as much as I love the guy, is much more of a passenger. He's not going to be making his linemates better or be the driving force behind the production.

 

[Ogrezilla]

The issue with Sheary at LW is that he's godawful defensively and none of our RW really excel in that regard. Hornqvist is probably the best of the bunch, but his defensive game is about board battles and blocking shots as opposed to separating guys from the puck and good gap control while the opposing guy is carrying the puck. It could work, and while I think Hagelin's a bit overpaid I don't think he's as bad as some people make him out to be (not you, but he's pretty vilified around here).

That's true with or without Hornqvist as soon as Sprong makes the team. We're already playing Guentzel and Sheary. As soon as we add Sprong, there simply isn't an option that doesn't have two of Jake, Sheary, Kessel, and Sprong on a line together. At least at LW Sheary is less of a mess on D.

As for the Hornqvist/Kessel thing, it's not about the cap hit. It's about the line dynamic. I don't care if we're spending a big chunk on a third liner if we're trying to ice 3 scoring lines--we sorta need to in that case. My issue is that Hornqvist a $5M+ on the third line is nowhere near as effective a component as Kessel on that third line. Kessel's gonna control the pace, drive defenders back with his speed and do what he does with his shot ad his passing ability. Hornqvist, for as much as I love the guy, is much more of a passenger. He's not going to be making his linemates better or be the driving force behind the production.

That's where we disagree I guess. I mean, Kessel is better. But that's why he makes 8 mil a year and we're talking about Horny in the 5s. I think either is very effective anywhere in the line-up. Hornqvist just got the Cup winning goal on the 4th line like 4 months ago.

 

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That's true with or without Hornqvist as soon as Sprong makes the team. We're already playing Guentzel and Sheary. As soon as we add Sprong, there simply isn't an option that doesn't have two of Jake, Sheary, Kessel, and Sprong on a line together. At least at LW Sheary is less of a mess on D.

Yeah, it seems like Sid's line is going to be the one that has a rough time defensively, assuming Guentzel-Sheary are his wingers moving forward. It sucks, but it is what it is I guess.

That's where we disagree I guess. I mean, Kessel is better. But that's why he makes 8 mil a year and we're talking about Horny in the 5s. I think either is very effective anywhere in the line-up. Hornqvist just got the Cup winning goal on the 4th line like 4 months ago.

Hornqvist scored a flukey goal from a ridiculous angle on that GW. I don't think it was as much Hornqvist as it was "just get it on net".

In a vacuum, I'd part with Hagelin or Sheary before Hornqvist, but with regard to positions, cap-hits, line combos, etc. I think Hornqvist is going to be the odd man out. If Hornqvist could play LW, or if he and Sid weren't apparently oil and water personality-wise, this situation wouldn't even be worth discussing. But for the factors involved, it's a lot more complicated.

I won't be upset in the least if we keep Hornqvist. Let me just be clear on that. I think he's a fantastic player, I love what he brings to the team. I just think he's gonna be the guy to go.

 

[Peat]

That's something we're eventually going to have to deal with as soon as Sprong makes the team unless one of Guentzel, Sheary, or Kessel is traded away regardless of if Hornqvist is here or not. Considering we already play Sheary and Guentzel together, I don't see that as any different than what we've already got.

My guess is, particularly if we don't retain Hornqvist, we trade one of those three once Sprong is here and replace them on the roster with a winger who brings more physicality and 2 way game. A prime Kunitz or Horny with better hands type player. A top 6 where Rust is the best defensive and most physical winger isn't really a goer.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Yeah, it seems like Sid's line is going to be the one that has a rough time defensively, assuming Guentzel-Sheary are his wingers moving forward. It sucks, but it is what it is I guess.


Hornqvist scored a flukey goal from a ridiculous angle on that GW. I don't think it was as much Hornqvist as it was "just get it on net".

In a vacuum, I'd part with Hagelin or Sheary before Hornqvist, but with regard to positions, cap-hits, line combos, etc. I think Hornqvist is going to be the odd man out. If Hornqvist could play LW, or if he and Sid weren't apparently oil and water personality-wise, this situation wouldn't even be worth discussing. But for the factors involved, it's a lot more complicated.

I won't be upset in the least if we keep Hornqvist. Let me just be clear on that. I think he's a fantastic player, I love what he brings to the team. I just think he's gonna be the guy to go.

But Hornqvist "just gets it on net" better than most of our team. He was only 6 behind Kessel in shots last year despite playing 12 less games and 2 less minutes per game he did play.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My guess is, particularly if we don't retain Hornqvist, we trade one of those three once Sprong is here and replace them on the roster with a winger who brings more physicality and 2 way game. A prime Kunitz or Horny with better hands type player. A top 6 where Rust is the best defensive and most physical winger isn't really a goer.

Didn't we just win with pretty much exactly that?

 

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But Hornqvist "just gets it on net" better than most of our team. He was only 6 behind Kessel in shots last year despite playing 12 less games and 2 less minutes per game he did play.

Sure. But that was a chip shot from an awful angle that any player on our roster could've thrown at the net. It's one thing to do what Hornqvist does on a nightly basis where he fights off two or three guys around the crease to get a stick on the puck for a chance that otherwise wouldn't be there. It's another to chip a shot at the net coming off of the back boards and have it go in. That's not a Hornqvist thing, that's a luck thing.

 

[Ogrezilla]

Sure. But that was a chip shot from an awful angle that any player on our roster could've thrown at the net. It's one thing to do what Hornqvist does on a nightly basis where he fights off two or three guys around the crease to get a stick on the puck for a chance that otherwise wouldn't be there. It's another to chip a shot at the net coming off of the back boards and have it go in. That's not a Hornqvist thing, that's a luck thing.

They could make that play, sure. But I would argue that most of them wouldn't. For one, they wouldn't be right at the net already. And secondly, about 3/4 of our forwards would take that puck and look to make a pass to someone out front there instead of throwing it on net. edit: I forgot how much it was bouncing. I guess nobody is trying to pass that

Just in general, I think Hornqvist is more likely to get those kinds of ugly goals than anyone on our team other than Sid. And he can do that no matter who he's on the ice with. Especially if we can have one of Letang, Schultz, or Maatta on the ice pretty much all the time.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

That's something we're eventually going to have to deal with as soon as Sprong makes the team unless one of Guentzel, Sheary, or Kessel is traded away regardless of if Hornqvist is here or not. Considering we already play Sheary and Guentzel together, I don't see that as any different than what we've already got.

I know, except if you had Guentzel, Kessel, Sheary and Sprong all on separate lines. That option or having the top 6 carry some potential for defensive misery aside it seems like that would be the breaking point for trading Sheary.

 

[Ogrezilla]

I know, except if you had Guentzel, Kessel, Sheary and Sprong all on separate lines. That option or having the top 6 carry some potential for defensive misery aside it seems like that would be the breaking point for trading Sheary.

No way will any be on the 4th line imo. As for the top 6 having potential for defensive misery, well, they already choose to put Jake and Sheary together when they don't have to. It should at least be better with Sheary on the LW where he's less of a defensive liability.

 

[Speaking Moistly]

No way will any be on the 4th line imo. As for the top 6 having potential for defensive misery, well, they already choose to put Jake and Sheary together when they don't have to. It should at least be better with Sheary on the LW where he's less of a defensive liability.

I give it a slight chance based on 4 lines that can score. Slight. They choose to do it right now but they also saw the GCS problems in the playoffs. Sheary on the LW does help him the most and until Sprong is called up the balance seems like it could be alright. Sprong being up looks like it'll throw a wrench in the lines if everyone is healthy.

 

[Peat]

Didn't we just win with pretty much exactly that?

My memory is fuzzy and thanks to the move finding GDTs with line ups is hard but, going from memory, I thought we had one of Wilson, Kunitz or Hagelin pre-injury on the left wing with Geno & Kessel for most of the finals. And we also axed Guentzel-Sheary as a pairing pretty quickly too when it came to play-off time.

 

[Ogrezilla]

My memory is fuzzy and thanks to the move finding GDTs with line ups is hard but, going from memory, I thought we had one of Wilson, Kunitz or Hagelin pre-injury on the left wing with Geno & Kessel for most of the finals. And we also axed Guentzel-Sheary as a pairing pretty quickly too when it came to play-off time.

Hagelin was in the bottom 6 pretty much the whole time. I guess you could be right about Kunitz or Wilson.