The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

[Weaves]

I think it’s more amazing that the Sabres took off like a rocket without him, which was the central premise of the side that wanted him out because his sad sack routine was infecting the roster, and it still has to be seen as a mistake.

Chemistry matters. And his tears didn’t mix.

I agree 100% with this.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Chemistry does matter...morale, attitude, whatever you want to call it. We can't be assuming that O'Reilly's post-season comments were a sign that he was the only or most "woe-is-me" drag on the roster though, or even that those comments were the main reason he was traded. I'm more confident saying that his comments were an indication that the whole roster was mentally worn out with losing. If it affected ROR's play as he stated it did, then it certainly was affecting other players' efforts too. Of course, a supposed leader should be finding better ways to deal with it than public comments he should know will cause a distraction...but that's another issue...

I think that the low morale led some of us into thinking the team was worse than it really was. There were players like Ristolainen, Girgensons, Larsson, and Pominville that are good, but just weren't emotionally into it anymore. After morale got a boost with an off-season influx of talent (Hutton, Skinner)...and/or the elimination of drama (Lehner, possibly Kane and O'Reilly), we have "found money" in the form of those guys playing like they can, with some excitement and top effort again.

How much the O'Reilly trade impacted all of this upswing is anyone's guess (and truly a total GUESS). We won't ever know behind the scenes factors that led to the trade, but there certainly could be very good reasons off the ice that justified a trade that looks like an on-ice loss for now. And "now" might not last very long considering Berglund's impact on a shut-down line (which experts here said how terrible he is defensively), and Thompson's turnaround (which obviously too many posters didn't have the patience to wait for). Sobotka is a cap dump but large scale trades have to make the cap hits work, and at least Botterill got the shorter term contracts and flexibility down the road. Getting a 1st and 2nd will prove crucial when Buffalo is drafting 20-30 the next few seasons.

Buffalo would be much better off at the center position with O'Reilly, but the depth, picks, and future cap advantages...not to mention the on-ice results for now...should have people shrugging their shoulders at worst if they still don't like the trade. The incessant criticism of Botterill or Housley should go silent, or at least find other reasons to complain about, and at a lower volume.

 

[sabrebuild]

This is a pretty disingenuous framing. This thread was birthed in large part by those mad about the trade were derailing several threads arguing about it. I know since its the reason I started this thread. The driver for much of the thread was ROR’s hot play and the frustrating over him being traded. Many posts juts about rOR’s Points in a agame or overall. Now its a bit more about what you said. But to argue the only opens driving this thread are his haters is pretty disingenuous

I think it’s very accurate to say that even the mention of O’Reilly or a player with his skill set triggered many posters into derailing threads with rants about team culture and mopey vegans.

The posts about his stats were in part done by me in this thread. Is the new standard, don't ever discuss a former player who is doing terrific in comparison to the players we received?

Let’s be honest, most of the posts that are annoyed with the trade come from a legitimate place of objectively that’s a bad trade. The response posts range from lala Sabres and Botts are always right cuz I’m a homer, to the absurd rationalizing we have had to endure while people pull things out of their butt. As Zip said.

So I guess, the framing might depend on your point of view jj. If you see me for example post in the Around the League thread that damn O’Reilly has a hat trick and several posters freak out to say he was a vegan, well then yes by god, I can see how you think that is an anti-O’Reilly trade poster derailing a thread.

Tho honestly the idea that you and others turn these arguments into an us vs them is silly and counterproductive.

Meanwhile in gameday threads you have ding dongs wasting their own time and everyone else’s to crow about how fellow posters should never question Botts because Tage finally had a couple good games after 20 bombs.

I’m pumped he scored too, but it’s embarrassing to watch people spend most of their posts in a game day thread trying to win, incorrectly, agenda internet points.

I suspect if we did an actual count, for every Alladyn who might go off the rails or Sabre the Win, there are 5, let’s call them opposing view points, that come in to defend our Lord and Savior Botts from any perceived slight.

And let’s be serious, what’s more derailing, a factual comment about what a player like O’Reilly brings to the ice, or hatred that a person who is playing a dream profession for many was honest about the pile of shit his organization put on the ice after asking him to grind himself down 3 years in a row.

Because in the end that didn’t happen for depth, unless Botts is an idiot, which I don’t think he is, it happened because the owner didn’t want this guy to be paid by him anymore. It’s the only reason that makes even a little sense with the self imposed deadline. I think most of us don’t like something like that happening, but I can live with it. What I can’t abide is us tapping our shoes to the dance management spins out or self created deception like how could Botts figure out the cap implications of having multiple high cap players on his team? I mean how could a cap wizard like him ever be able to figure that out in 2.5 seasons before Dahlin will get a raise.

 

[joshjull]

I think it’s very accurate to say that even the mention of O’Reilly or a player with his skill set triggered many posters into derailing threads with rants about team culture and mopey vegans.

The posts about his stats were in part done by me in this thread. Is the new standard, don't ever discuss a former player who is doing terrific in comparison to the players we received?

Let’s be honest, most of the posts that are annoyed with the trade come from a legitimate place of objectively that’s a bad trade. The response posts range from lala Sabres and Botts are always right cuz I’m a homer, to the absurd rationalizing we have had to endure while people pull things out of their butt. As Zip said.

So I guess, the framing might depend on your point of view jj. If you see me for example post in the Around the League thread that damn O’Reilly has a hat trick and several posters freak out to say he was a vegan, well then yes by god, I can see how you think that is an anti-O’Reilly trade poster derailing a thread.

Tho honestly the idea that you and others turn these arguments into an us vs them is silly and counterproductive.

Meanwhile in gameday threads you have ding dongs wasting their own time and everyone else’s to crow about how fellow posters should never question Botts because Tage finally had a couple good games after 20 bombs.

I’m pumped he scored too, but it’s embarrassing to watch people spend most of their posts in a game day thread trying to win, incorrectly, agenda internet points.

I suspect if we did an actual count, for every Alladyn who might go off the rails or Sabre the Win, there are 5, let’s call them opposing view points, that come in to defend our Lord and Savior Botts from any perceived slight.

And let’s be serious, what’s more derailing, a factual comment about what a player like O’Reilly brings to the ice, or hatred that a person who is playing a dream profession for many was honest about the pile of **** his organization put on the ice after asking him to grind himself down 3 years in a row.

Because in the end that didn’t happen for depth, unless Botts is an idiot, which I don’t think he is, it happened because the owner didn’t want this guy to be paid by him anymore. It’s the only reason that makes even a little sense with the self imposed deadline. I think most of us don’t like something like that happening, but I can live with it. What I can’t abide is us tapping our shoes to the dance management spins out or self created deception like how could Botts figure out the cap implications of having multiple high cap players on his team? I mean how could a cap wizard like him ever be able to figure that out in 2.5 seasons before Dahlin will get a raise.

Do you understand how angry and irrational this post is in response to what I posted? Wow

I said this thread is driven by varying and strongly held opinions not just by ROR haters. I passed no judgment on any of the opinions nor argued for or against any opinions. All I disagreed with is the idea that ROR haters are driving the thread. You respond with this disjointed rant touching on almost everything you can cram into it.

Relax

 

[sabrebuild]

Chemistry does matter...morale, attitude, whatever you want to call it. We can't be assuming that O'Reilly's post-season comments were a sign that he was the only or most "woe-is-me" drag on the roster though, or even that those comments were the main reason he was traded. I'm more confident saying that his comments were an indication that the whole roster was mentally worn out with losing. If it affected ROR's play as he stated it did, then it certainly was affecting other players' efforts too. Of course, a supposed leader should be finding better ways to deal with it than public comments he should know will cause a distraction...but that's another issue...

I think that the low morale led some of us into thinking the team was worse than it really was. There were players like Ristolainen, Girgensons, Larsson, and Pominville that are good, but just weren't emotionally into it anymore. After morale got a boost with an off-season influx of talent (Hutton, Skinner)...and/or the elimination of drama (Lehner, possibly Kane and O'Reilly), we have "found money" in the form of those guys playing like they can, with some excitement and top effort again.

How much the O'Reilly trade impacted all of this upswing is anyone's guess (and truly a total GUESS). We won't ever know behind the scenes factors that led to the trade, but there certainly could be very good reasons off the ice that justified a trade that looks like an on-ice loss for now. And "now" might not last very long considering Berglund's impact on a shut-down line (which experts here said how terrible he is defensively), and Thompson's turnaround (which obviously too many posters didn't have the patience to wait for). Sobotka is a cap dump but large scale trades have to make the cap hits work, and at least Botterill got the shorter term contracts and flexibility down the road. Getting a 1st and 2nd will prove crucial when Buffalo is drafting 20-30 the next few seasons.

Buffalo would be much better off at the center position with O'Reilly, but the depth, picks, and future cap advantages...not to mention the on-ice results for now...should have people shrugging their shoulders at worst if they still don't like the trade. The incessant criticism of Botterill or Housley should go silent, or at least find other reasons to complain about, and at a lower volume.

What a load of poppy cock.

Pretty much everyone with a brain here, including struck, who complained about Botts every single day last year, said that our core guys were being given trash to work with last year.

I have no recollection of whether you were one of the ppl telling him to shut up or not, but to act like the emotional impact of losing was on O’Reilly and limited the other young players, I mean where do you come up with this nonsense?

Botts literally brought in multiple good players this year, that didn’t cost us any players from our roster. The only one that did was O’Reilly and it’s clear even with Tage improving, that those three can’t hold a candle to O’Reilly and at this point only 2 if 3 can even make the roster at the same time.

Nobody said Berglund wasn’t good at defense, they said he wasn’t any faster than O’Reilly and was one dimensional offensively, so far that has been correct. When he isn’t scratched. Sobotka is worse than Erod and not much better than Elie.

Versus, Hutton playing out of his mind, Skinner out of his mind, Sheary better than any winger not named Sam or Kane last year, Mitts better than any bottom 6 forward last year, a healthy Bogo and McCabe playing out of his mind and oh ya a luckybas he’ll Generational Goddamn 18 year old defender taking over our d Corp.

But hey maybe it’s just chemistry....

My favorite parcel of this nonsense is if it is to be believed it really contradicts the Housley belief that he knows what he is doing. Because if we follow the nonsense of O’Reilly down the line, it means that management and coaching couldn’t see a problem with this player before his comments after the season, so much so that Housley relies on him to the tune of more ice time than Jack gets now, despite this being Jack’s team now narrative.

 

[sabrebuild]

Do you understand how angry and irrational this post is in response to what I posted? Wow

I said this thread is driven by varying and strongly held opinions not just by ROR haters. I passed no judgment on any of the opinions nor argued for or against any opinions. All I disagreed with is the idea that ROR haters are driving the thread. You respond with this disjointed rant touching on almost everything you can cram into it.

Relax

Do you know how weird it is for you to think a post is angry based on it disagreeing with exact premise you bring up again in defending your post?

 

[joshjull]

Did a post get deleted or something? I can't figure out who you're addressing.

I quoted the poster. Its not showing up? Its the post before mine

 

[Montag DP]

I quoted the poster. Its not showing up? Its the post before mine

Nope, I don't see a quote in your post, and the one before yours doesn't seem to be a rant.

 

[ZZamboni]

On the other hand, it's just as irrational to completely dismiss the possibility that ROR was a negative presence in the locker room, and that that could have an effect on the team.

The entire roster and coaching staff? For the entire time ROR was here?
Yea, you’re right. I have a hard time believing every single person on the Buffalo Sabres were affected so profoundly and deeply by one person. So much so that they sucked for the years he was here. I don’t give ANY one player on a team THAT much credit

 

[Montag DP]

The entire roster and coaching staff? For the entire time ROR was here?
Yea, you’re right. I have a hard time believing every single person on the Buffalo Sabres were affected so profoundly and deeply by one person. So much so that they sucked for the years he was here. I don’t give ANY one player on a team THAT much credit

You're putting words in my mouth. I said a negative effect, nothing more.

 

[joshjull]

Nope, I don't see a quote in your post, and the one before yours doesn't seem to be a rant.

That’s weird becasue I can see my post and the post I quoted in it. Hmm..

 

[Montag DP]

That’s weird becasue I can see my post and the post I quoted in it. Hmm..

Nevermind, I may have the poster in question on ignore.

 

[Chainshot]

Improved the goaltending, added a top 4 defenseman (Dahlin) and have had near perfect health from their entire blueline. Nope, none of that matters. 'Twas all jettisoning O'Reilly's vegan beardiness responsible for the turn.

Sarcasm implied.

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

What a load of poppy cock.

Pretty much everyone with a brain here, including struck, who complained about Botts every single day last year, said that our core guys were being given trash to work with last year.

I have no recollection of whether you were one of the ppl telling him to shut up or not, but to act like the emotional impact of losing was on O’Reilly and limited the other young players, I mean where do you come up with this nonsense?

Botts literally brought in multiple good players this year, that didn’t cost us any players from our roster. The only one that did was O’Reilly and it’s clear even with Tage improving, that those three can’t hold a candle to O’Reilly and at this point only 2 if 3 can even make the roster at the same time.

Nobody said Berglund wasn’t good at defense, they said he wasn’t any faster than O’Reilly and was one dimensional offensively, so far that has been correct. When he isn’t scratched. Sobotka is worse than Erod and not much better than Elie.

Versus, Hutton playing out of his mind, Skinner out of his mind, Sheary better than any winger not named Sam or Kane last year, Mitts better than any bottom 6 forward last year, a healthy Bogo and McCabe playing out of his mind and oh ya a luckybas he’ll Generational Goddamn 18 year old defender taking over our d Corp.

But hey maybe it’s just chemistry....

My favorite parcel of this nonsense is if it is to be believed it really contradicts the Housley belief that he knows what he is doing. Because if we follow the nonsense of O’Reilly down the line, it means that management and coaching couldn’t see a problem with this player before his comments after the season, so much so that Housley relies on him to the tune of more ice time than Jack gets now, despite this being Jack’s team now narrative.

I had to read this post several times, and I'm still not sure how you understood my post to be such "poppy cock" or much of the rest of your rant.

I said that O'Reilly's comments were a likely indication that the rest of the roster was also tired of losing. It's plain as day in my post, so I can't fathom how you disagree with that, or possibly think that I really meant that O'Reilly's unhappiness dragged down everybody else. JC dude, how do you interpret my post like that and go on ANOTHER diatribe?!?

I'm not even going to bother with the rest, when you can't seem to understand a post.

 

[Aladyyn]

Maybe we should try getting Ristolainen emotionally out of it again, considering 2017-18 was easily his best season.

 

[Dubi Doo]

And I'm definitely sure that being close to 100% healthy has nothing to do with it either.

And the goaltending locking down the crease. f***, Lehner was bad last year.

 

[Ralonzo]

It's pointless to bring up ROR's production in Saint Louis because he's getting featured 1C usage he would never get in Buffalo with Eichel in front of him, unless Botts traded Eichel. Sometimes a guy just isn't in his best role due to some circumstance or roster composition issue on his team. Good GM's identify guys like that and get 'em. Good job on Armstrong for doing that, sorry about the goalies.

 

[Matt Ress]

Maybe we should try getting Ristolainen emotionally out of it again, considering 2017-18 was easily his best season.

But I don't even think he can grow a beard

 

[thomas vanek]

The goaltending is improved, adding Dahlin improved the defense, AND team chemistry is improved. This team has a different attitude this year, and removing O'Reilly, Lehner and Kane absolutely, unequivocally has a part in that. Sabres could literally win the cup this year and people will still be saying they would have won the cup in a better fashion if O'Reilly was still brooding around the Sabres dressing room.

 

[joshjull]

I’ve always viewed th ROR trade as a reboot of the team and locker room. I also don’t think that means he is a cancer but that parting ways was probably best for both parties. That seemed to be a similar sentiment with Skinner/Carolina.

This

The problem with Murray’s trades, aside from overpaying, was targeting players he liked to acquire and not really building a team.


What I mean by that is the amount of assets used to acquire Kane, Bogo and ROR , combined with what was left on the roster, made them defacto team leaders. By trading a 1st for Lehner and gifting him the starters job, he too became a team leader/voice in the room. I don’t think for a second Murray thought of any of this, certainly not the consequences, while he was throwing assets around to acquire these guys (as well as the big money to ROR).

This is not remotely an indictment of those players. All can be good and effective players in the right environment (not sure yet with Lehner). But it seems clear that they are better served in situations with strong vet leadership around them instead of being relied on to be that vet leadership. I think both ROR and Kane will thrive on their new teams for that very reason.

ROR in particular commented on it Once he got to the Blues (Paraphrasing) ... he was happy to be a on such a veteran team with strong leadership. From my POV it’s a perfect situation for him. Now he can go be the very good two center he is and not worry about the leadership stuff any more. Lehner has the best possible scenario to get his life and game on track with the strong vet coaches he will be working with on the Isles.

Bringing this back to the Murray trades, if youre going to invest a ton of assets to essentially create a young vet leadership core. You better be sure they are the types suited to those roles.

And this is the prism through which I view this trade.

 

[joshjull]

The reality is Botts set out to remake his team from the trade deadline on into the offseason. He wanted to fix the depth, overall talent at various positions and the locker room. The totality of those moves is a big reason for the success we’ve had to date.

Trading ROR was only part of that remake. Did he have to get moved as part of this remake? I have no idea and I’d argue no one on this forum does either. (I believe @Sabresfansince1980 mentioned this as well)

 

[Royal Thunder]

It's getting pretty hard to say we would be better off if we undid this trade and still had ROR

 

[Aladyyn]

It's getting pretty hard to say we would be better off if we undid this trade and still had ROR

Skinner - Eichel - Pominville
Sheary - O'Reilly - Reinhart
Rodrigues - Mittelstadt - Okposo
Jaskin - Larsson - Girgensons

Your honor, I rest my case.

 

[Zip15]

Improved the goaltending, added a top 4 defenseman (Dahlin) and have had near perfect health from their entire blueline. Nope, none of that matters. 'Twas all jettisoning O'Reilly's vegan beardiness responsible for the turn.

Sarcasm implied.

And you haven't even touched on the additions of Skinner and Mitts, which cost us nothing off our roster. Nope, it was ROR.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Do you understand how angry and irrational this post is in response to what I posted? Wow

I said this thread is driven by varying and strongly held opinions not just by ROR haters. I passed no judgment on any of the opinions nor argued for or against any opinions. All I disagreed with is the idea that ROR haters are driving the thread. You respond with this disjointed rant touching on almost everything you can cram into it.

Relax

Didn’t sound angry or irrational in the slightest to me Nor does it seem disjointed