The Ryan O’Reilly Discussion Quarantine Zone [All ROR Posts Here] (Mod Notes OP)

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sabrebuild

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Apr 21, 2014
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Bingo. Many of the people who despise the RoR trade were also calling Botts a joke, an idiot etc for losing superstar William Carrier and a 6th to keep Ullmark...while Carrier is still a 4th line dime a dozen player and Ullmark progressing to become a top goalie.

So no, Skinner cannot fit with RoR here. Biggest myth the Ror fans are trying to point to. Please create a 2019-2020 lineup that negates the RoR trade and also plans for a Skinner extension. Because paying 32 million long term for Eichel, RoR, Skinner and Okposo is gross. Just because of RoR and Okposo making 13.5 the next 4 years.

PS. ROR is not overachieving if he was still here. He would be at his usual 60 point pace, not score at a rate he has never come close to. He already is returning back to norm and will finish with ~70. Career high yes too bad it's on another basement level team.

Family, your request has been done a number of times. The cap is very manageable.

I’ll be ecstatic to see O’Reilly having a career year like Skinner is, but I’m cool with 60 point O’Reilly instead of Sobotka and Erod for Berglund. That’s be just fine.
 

Doug Prishpreed

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May 1, 2013
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We could have traded ROR at ANY POINT during his contract. Literally any. The second his contract becomes an issue, IF that ever happens, we can just trade him to the highest bidder.

You are forgetting that he goes from a top-line player to untradeable garbage the minute he turns 30, like Cinderella at the stroke of midnight.
 

Zip15

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Jun 3, 2009
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Bingo. Many of the people who despise the RoR trade were also calling Botts a joke, an idiot etc for losing superstar William Carrier and a 6th to keep Ullmark...while Carrier is still a 4th line dime a dozen player and Ullmark progressing to become a top goalie.

So no, Skinner cannot fit with RoR here. Biggest myth the Ror fans are trying to point to. Please create a 2019-2020 lineup that negates the RoR trade and also plans for a Skinner extension. Because paying 32 million long term for Eichel, RoR, Skinner and Okposo is gross. Just because of RoR and Okposo making 13.5 the next 4 years.

PS. ROR is not overachieving if he was still here. He would be at his usual 60 point pace, not score at a rate he has never come close to. He already is returning back to norm and will finish with ~70. Career high yes too bad it's on another basement level team.

You continuing to say it isn't going to make it true. As for your 2019-20 lineup challenge, it's pretty easy given that, again, Sobotka and Berglund account for 98% of ROR's cap hit, including next season.
 
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Jim Bob

RIP RJ
Feb 27, 2002
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You continuing to say it isn't going to make it true. As for your 2019-20 lineup challenge, it's pretty easy given that, again, Sobotka and Berglund account for 98% of ROR's cap hit, including next season.

With both Pominville ($5.6M) and Moulson (just under $4M) come off of the books and Skinner's current deal at $5.725M ending, there is plenty of space even if the ROR deal never happens.

That is almost $16M in cap space to give Skinner $8 to 9M per and then you have ELCs like VO & Nylander up next year or even sub-$1M guys like O'Regan or Smith.
 
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Dubi Doo

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Aug 27, 2008
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O'Reilly is on an amazing contract. Not sure why you'd want to rid that contract off the books?
 
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enthusiast

cybersabre his prophet
Oct 20, 2009
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Let me explicate further: from this point forward, low-effort one-liners will get you warnings (read:infractions).
 

ZZamboni

Puttin' on the Foil
Sep 25, 2010
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You are forgetting that he goes from a top-line player to untradeable garbage the minute he turns 30, like Cinderella at the stroke of midnight.

Yep. So we better not sign Skinner to more than a 3 year deal because of that pesky thing called “aging”. Or does only ROR age? Can’t keep up with the pretzel logic when it comes to aging :laugh:
 

gallagt01

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Jun 10, 2006
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Today, the Blues sit second from the bottom of the league. The Sabres are second from the TOP.

ROR is a tireless worker and a great player. Thought he was getting a shot with a contender...dude can't catch a break.
 

StlSwedes

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Dec 3, 2009
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I feel for ROR. I live in Stl and lived in Denver before I moved back when ROR was there. Guy can't catch a break. Was the whipping boy in Denver for no reason. Then came to Buffalo and followed up success with the Tim Horton's thing and then the infamous presser. Now he goes to Stl and the fans go nuts for him and he plays great. Only to watch everything go to crap around him. Just plain sucks. Watching him after the end of the 3rd with a sad stare on the Blues bench is hard to stomach. It doesn't matter about how you feel about the trade, that is between GM's, the player for all purposes is a great hockey player and you have to feel for him.
 

CrazyPsycho

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Sep 25, 2003
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I legit feel bad for the dude. Crazy how things have worked out this year for both teams.

Ive seen this face before

 
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La Cosa Nostra

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Jun 25, 2009
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Family, your request has been done a number of times. The cap is very manageable.

I’ll be ecstatic to see O’Reilly having a career year like Skinner is, but I’m cool with 60 point O’Reilly instead of Sobotka and Erod for Berglund. That’s be just fine.

It really isn't. Especially in 2 summers when Dahlin gets his new deal.

So in 2021 you are telling me we will be fine having

Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8-9
RoR - 7.5
Okposo - 6
Reinhart - ~5
Mittelstadt- ~4

40 mil just in 6 forwards. Then Risto at 5.4. Over 50% of the cap (46+ mil) tied up in just 7 players and that is counting zero goalies.

And now our superstar Dman is coming off his ELC. There will be no bridge. If he is what we think he is he is getting 11-12 mil.

So in 2021 we will have

Dahlin- 12
Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8.5
RoR- 7.5
Okposo - 6
Risto - 5.4
Reinhart - 5
Mitts - 4

Over 58 mil tied up in 3 centers, 3 wingers, 2 dmen and zero goalies. The cap will not be more then 92-95 mil in 2021. So somehow we can build and maintain a deep team even though we have less then 40 mil to add another 6 forwards, 4 dmen, 2 goalies and 3 extras. 15 more players needed to be factored in with only 40 or so mil to do it. It cannot work. It's all moot because RoR is not here. Skinner is and is making a far better impact. Good for RoR but short and long term the Buffalo Sabres are better and will be better then St.Louis. Pietrangelo is getting closer to 30 and they have no goaltending. Tarasenko has never taken that next step to super stardom and they have committed $$ to guys like Bozak.

I dont care how bad your goaltending is. If you have a guy on pace for 100 points you should not be the 2nd worst team in the league. Allen is not some atrocious Bob Essensa type. Underachievement follows RoR everywhere the last 5 years.

RoR is a good person and I wish him some modicum of success (after we get our first of course)

Ror is a legit 1C. But he is more in the 15-25 range. A team with RoR as its 1C is not winning a cup plain and simple. He is nearing 30 and he is not someone whose skating is even all that good at 27, so I am curious to see if he can stay producing as a 1C.

Back to somehow fitting RoR and Skinner. Is it technically possible? Sure, there is maybe a way to do it. But you will be relying on other teams to either take Okposo off our hands or us just filling half the roster with ELCs and vet minumums.

I prefer the current makeup. I prefer having a Conor Sheary as my LW2. Having a vet like Berglund on my 3rd line. Having good forwards on all 4 lines.

The current Sabres squad is becoming like 05-06. ROR just cannot mesh with Jack. We had 3 years. It's not a coincidence that once 90 was moved this became Jack's team 100% and he developed into a 2 way star captain. It's just weird how April 2018 player are all gloomy and RoR makes his comments and fast forward 7 months and the entire team is smiling ear to ear saying how they are a family that they look forward to coming to the rink and that they will fight for each other. If there was a locker room split I am glad it's gone and that hopefully the players causing any issues are all gone.
 
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JLewyB

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May 6, 2013
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So RoR is still the best player in this trade but we got essentially a whole serviceable line out of the deal plus a 1st and a 2nd.
 

sabrebuild

Registered User
Apr 21, 2014
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It really isn't. Especially in 2 summers when Dahlin gets his new deal.

So in 2021 you are telling me we will be fine having

Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8-9
RoR - 7.5
Okposo - 6
Reinhart - ~5
Mittelstadt- ~4

40 mil just in 6 forwards. Then Risto at 5.4. Over 50% of the cap (46+ mil) tied up in just 7 players and that is counting zero goalies.

And now our superstar Dman is coming off his ELC. There will be no bridge. If he is what we think he is he is getting 11-12 mil.

So in 2021 we will have

Dahlin- 12
Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8.5
RoR- 7.5
Okposo - 6
Risto - 5.4
Reinhart - 5
Mitts - 4

Over 58 mil tied up in 3 centers, 3 wingers, 2 dmen and zero goalies. The cap will not be more then 92-95 mil in 2021. So somehow we can build and maintain a deep team even though we have less then 40 mil to add another 6 forwards, 4 dmen, 2 goalies and 3 extras. 15 more players needed to be factored in with only 40 or so mil to do it. It cannot work. It's all moot because RoR is not here. Skinner is and is making a far better impact. Good for RoR but short and long term the Buffalo Sabres are better and will be better then St.Louis. Pietrangelo is getting closer to 30 and they have no goaltending. Tarasenko has never taken that next step to super stardom and they have committed $$ to guys like Bozak.

I dont care how bad your goaltending is. If you have a guy on pace for 100 points you should not be the 2nd worst team in the league. Allen is not some atrocious Bob Essensa type. Underachievement follows RoR everywhere the last 5 years.

RoR is a good person and I wish him some modicum of success (after we get our first of course)

Ror is a legit 1C. But he is more in the 15-25 range. A team with RoR as its 1C is not winning a cup plain and simple. He is nearing 30 and he is not someone whose skating is even all that good at 27, so I am curious to see if he can stay producing as a 1C.

Back to somehow fitting RoR and Skinner. Is it technically possible? Sure, there is maybe a way to do it. But you will be relying on other teams to either take Okposo off our hands or us just filling half the roster with ELCs and vet minumums.

I prefer the current makeup. I prefer having a Conor Sheary as my LW2. Having a vet like Berglund on my 3rd line. Having good forwards on all 4 lines.

The current Sabres squad is becoming like 05-06. ROR just cannot mesh with Jack. We had 3 years. It's not a coincidence that once 90 was moved this became Jack's team 100% and he developed into a 2 way star captain. It's just weird how April 2018 player are all gloomy and RoR makes his comments and fast forward 7 months and the entire team is smiling ear to ear saying how they are a family that they look forward to coming to the rink and that they will fight for each other. If there was a locker room split I am glad it's gone and that hopefully the players causing any issues are all gone.

Outside of the O’Reilly nonsense. Yes. That is what I’m telling you.

That’s why math is comforting for some. You can actually plug in the numbers and really get the answers to the questions you ask.

And yes, you can afford to have a moderately top heavy roster, just like many other cup winning teams since the cap, Washington, Pittsburgh to name just the last three winners.

Just like you can afford to still have Sheary level players as your 2lw. All for the difference in value between Sobotka and an elc player, like Erod.

Because here’s the thing, if we trust Botts so much and we love Rochester’s youngsters, then we should trust Botts to fill in a couple spots when his top 9 is filthy at every position.

The cap will be conservatively around 85 in 2021. If at that point players have overachieved a ton, trades could be made then, after clustering as much talent as possible, with only a couple years of O’Reilly to go.

And as you can see with our trade to acquire Sheary, there are always teams willing to take on your meh contracts, for a mid level prospect or player. They just don’t want your huge term, free agent busts.

Now if you want to pretend that RoR stopped Eichel from being a lot better, which he hasn’t been much at all, by playing almost never together except the pp, which was generally pretty good as a unit, then all the power to you, but I’ll stick with adding half a dozen better players to replace some of the bums Botts brought in last year and some well deserved good luck, might have more to do with them winning than the non coincidence of O’Reilly getting dumped by Pegula.

It’s also completely okay to say that Botts did enough and got amazing luck to snag Dahlin to improve the team even with the loss of O’Reilly for quantity.

But if Thompson plays like he did tonight, I might be ready to say the trade worked out better than hoped for initially just on him.
 

Aladyyn

they praying for the death of a rockstar
Apr 6, 2015
18,118
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It really isn't. Especially in 2 summers when Dahlin gets his new deal.

So in 2021 you are telling me we will be fine having

Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8-9
RoR - 7.5
Okposo - 6
Reinhart - ~5
Mittelstadt- ~4

40 mil just in 6 forwards. Then Risto at 5.4. Over 50% of the cap (46+ mil) tied up in just 7 players and that is counting zero goalies.

And now our superstar Dman is coming off his ELC. There will be no bridge. If he is what we think he is he is getting 11-12 mil.

So in 2021 we will have

Dahlin- 12
Eichel - 10
Skinner - 8.5
RoR- 7.5
Okposo - 6
Risto - 5.4
Reinhart - 5
Mitts - 4

Over 58 mil tied up in 3 centers, 3 wingers, 2 dmen and zero goalies. The cap will not be more then 92-95 mil in 2021. So somehow we can build and maintain a deep team even though we have less then 40 mil to add another 6 forwards, 4 dmen, 2 goalies and 3 extras. 15 more players needed to be factored in with only 40 or so mil to do it. It cannot work. It's all moot because RoR is not here. Skinner is and is making a far better impact. Good for RoR but short and long term the Buffalo Sabres are better and will be better then St.Louis. Pietrangelo is getting closer to 30 and they have no goaltending. Tarasenko has never taken that next step to super stardom and they have committed $$ to guys like Bozak.

I dont care how bad your goaltending is. If you have a guy on pace for 100 points you should not be the 2nd worst team in the league. Allen is not some atrocious Bob Essensa type. Underachievement follows RoR everywhere the last 5 years.

RoR is a good person and I wish him some modicum of success (after we get our first of course)

Ror is a legit 1C. But he is more in the 15-25 range. A team with RoR as its 1C is not winning a cup plain and simple. He is nearing 30 and he is not someone whose skating is even all that good at 27, so I am curious to see if he can stay producing as a 1C.

Back to somehow fitting RoR and Skinner. Is it technically possible? Sure, there is maybe a way to do it. But you will be relying on other teams to either take Okposo off our hands or us just filling half the roster with ELCs and vet minumums.

I prefer the current makeup. I prefer having a Conor Sheary as my LW2. Having a vet like Berglund on my 3rd line. Having good forwards on all 4 lines.

The current Sabres squad is becoming like 05-06. ROR just cannot mesh with Jack. We had 3 years. It's not a coincidence that once 90 was moved this became Jack's team 100% and he developed into a 2 way star captain. It's just weird how April 2018 player are all gloomy and RoR makes his comments and fast forward 7 months and the entire team is smiling ear to ear saying how they are a family that they look forward to coming to the rink and that they will fight for each other. If there was a locker room split I am glad it's gone and that hopefully the players causing any issues are all gone.
And why can't we deal with that situation in 2021? Why does a last place team worry about having too many good players in 3 years?
 

Rasmus CacOlainen

The end of the Tank
Sep 24, 2015
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So RoR is still the best player in this trade but we got essentially a whole serviceable line out of the deal plus a 1st and a 2nd.
Tage has the upside to be better than ROR even if ROR is better now (and Berglund and Sobotka compensate for that with quality depth). Also we have a 1st round pick that is looking tastier with each day passed. Either teens 2019 or maybe lotto 2020 pick. That's the cherry on the whole serviceable line cake.
 
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Ace

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Oct 29, 2015
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I think it’s more amazing that the Sabres took off like a rocket without him, which was the central premise of the side that wanted him out because his sad sack routine was infecting the roster, and it still has to be seen as a mistake.

Chemistry matters. And his tears didn’t mix.
 
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SabresFan26

Registered User
May 28, 2003
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Once again, let’s wait until Tage fully develops and we see how the 1st and 2nd pan out. That first is looking nice tho!

Still think as of now Botterill is looking good.

Locker room shake up, 2 bottom 9 depth forwards, a prospect who is starting to show glimpses, and a 1st and 2nd round pick from the 30th place team in the league.
 
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joshjull

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Aug 2, 2005
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Right, because the people driving this thread aren't the trolls who come in to post after every Blues loss. :rolleyes:

This is a pretty disingenuous framing. This thread was birthed in large part by those mad about the trade were derailing several threads arguing about it. I know since its the reason I started it. The driver for much of the thread was ROR’s hot play and the frustration over him being traded. Many posts were just about ROR’s production or how amazing we would be if he was still here. In the last bit its been more about what you said. But to argue the only ones driving this thread are his haters is pretty disingenuous. There are lot of posters with varying and strong opinions about this that are driving the thread.
 
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Havok89

Registered User
Oct 26, 2010
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I think it’s more amazing that the Sabres took off like a rocket without him, which was the central premise of the side that wanted him out because his sad sack routine was infecting the roster, and it still has to be seen as a mistake.

Chemistry matters. And his tears didn’t mix.

Lehner + Johnson vs Hutton + Ullmark???

Nah it’s because ROR was traded.

Meanwhile, look at St. Louis’ goaltending this year. That must be on ROR too?
 
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