Player Discussion "The Real Deal" James Neal

[Mr Snrub]

Neal's shot looks like crap for a sniper, so I did a little digging. I read somewhere that his "normal" stick was discontinued (Easton Mako) and he couldn't get it anymore, but I can't find the article. Supposedly, he recently ran out of the stockpile of his stick or something, so he's trying to find a replacement. Keep in mind, this is kinda huge when you realize that hockey players are apparently creatures of habit and are perhaps a little superstitious about their equipment sometimes to the point of ensuring that their hockey sticks are taped in a very specific manner.

Which Sticks are Scoring in the NHL? | The Hockey Gear Blog
Per this, Neal was using an Easton Mako once upon a time. I think it coincides with PSG going bankrupt ?(original owner of Easton and Bauer)

James Neal
Per this, he has switched to a Bauer Supreme 2S Pro

This, and I believe Neal is the type to start slow and get stronger as the season is longer... might be why I think he isn't looking great.

Using a particular brand of stick doesn't notch you 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

Unlike the RW that he arguably replaced, I never get the sense that he's hurting the team when he's not scoring... but that said, I'd like him to start burying. He's getting a golden chance every game.

This is true, he never looks actively detrimental. But he does look extremely passengery, which is a bad look.

Also worth noting that if he was anywhere near as bad as Brouwer I would start flipping every table in sight.

 

[SKRusty]

Using a particular brand of stick doesn't notch you 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons.

I don't think you understand how the hockey gods work:

Wayne Gretzky (HOF Forward): The Great One had an extensive list of rituals and superstitions.
– First, Gretzky refused to get his hair cut on the road (he did once and the team lost).
– Second, he always put his equipment on in the following order: left shin pad, left sock, right shin pad, right sock, pants, left skate, right skate, shoulder pads, left elbow pad, right elbow pad, then the jersey, with the right side tucked into his pants. – Third, his first shot during warm-up was always to the extreme right of the goal.
– Fourth, after warm-up he would return to the dressing room and proceed to drink a Diet Coke, a glass of ice water then a Gatorade…followed by another Diet Coke.
– Fifth, he always put baby powder on the blade of his stick.
Joe Nieuwendyk (Former NHL Forward): He ate two pieces of toast and peanut butter before every game.
Sidney Crosby (Penguins Forward): What is it with the really great players and their laundry lists of superstitions? Here’s what Sid gets up to.
– First, he won’t call his mother on a game day because the last three times he did he got injured (busted teeth, dislocated shoulder and a broken foot).
– Second, once he has taped up his sticks before the game no one can touch them or make like they’re going to. If they do Sid will remove the tape and re-tape the stick.
– Third, if the team is travelling on the bus he will lift his feet and touch glass if they have to cross railroad tracks.
– Fourth, if playing on the road he will only use tape supplied by the home team for his sticks.
Kyle McLaren (Former NHL Defenseman): One game, as a practical joke, McLaren’s teammates switched his normal visor with a yellow tinted one. He didn’t notice the switch as he is color blind! Since he scored the winning goal that game he decided to keep the visor on after being told about it.
Patrick Roy (HOF Goalie): Roy had a number of superstitions during his career.
– First, he would have long conversations with goal posts.
– Second, before each game he would carefully lay out each piece of his equipment on the floor of the locker room and dress himself in a specific order.
– Third, during intermissions he would both juggle a puck and bounce it off the ground.
– Fourth, he would not skate over any line on the ice, stepping over them instead.
– Fifth, before each game he would skates to his blue line, crouch down and stares at his goal in an attempt to visualize the net shrinking.
Ken Dryden (HOF Goalie): Dryden wouldn’t leave the net during warmup until he had made one last save. Teammate Larry Robinson figured this out and started making sure Dryden had an “easy one” if he was having problems making that last save (remember the Habs of the ‘70s were stacked with snipers).
Daniél Briére (Avalanche Forward): Briére rotates between three sticks. When he has a good game with a certain one he “rewards” it with a rest and uses a different one.
Pelle Lindbergh (Former NHL Goalie): Wore the same orange t-shirt under his equipment each game. If it started to fall apart he would have it sewn up, and it was never washed. Ever. In addition, the only thing he would drink during intermissions was a Swedish beverage called ‘Pripps’. Not only did it have to be that drink but he could also only drink it if it had exactly two ice cubes in it, if it was given to him by a specific trainer, and would only take it from the trainer with his right hand.

I think hockey has some of the most superstitious players that have ever played sport. As far as equipment goes hockey players are very particular. Mess with their equipment and you mess with their confidence and no sport I know of has more equipment.

Phaneuf has altered gloves, Johnny uses a kids stick that almost was discontinued a couple years ago, there are a few players who sharpen their own skates, Gretzky and his Jofa helmet, and so many others. To end droughts players have done extreme things from destroying entire sets of equipment, to dietary regime, to spiritual rituals. I read once about a goalie that had an exorcism performed on his goalie equipment. I wish I could remember who that was... Grr

So in short you would be amazed what throws a hockey player off.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

Said it at the beginning of the year he’s going to start slow unless he’s playing with money and Johnny

 

[Fig]

Using a particular brand of stick doesn't notch you 10 consecutive 20 goal seasons.

I beg to differ. Hockey is a game of razor thin margins. Milliseconds and millimeters have significant effects. If a stick is shorter by a few millimeters, or flexes a few millimeters differently, the end result is amplified significantly in the form of a few inches to a few feet once the puck has reached the goal. That's the difference between a sick shot off the post into the net, off the post and out, or just nicking the outside of the net. The same goes with timing of the shot.

A sniper like Neal, I was expecting hard laser accurate shots. I don't know if others have noticed it, but to me, the dude is wafting inaccurate muffins to my limited views of him so far.

 

[Kranix]

Neal's shot looks like crap for a sniper, so I did a little digging. I read somewhere that his "normal" stick was discontinued (Easton Mako) and he couldn't get it anymore, but I can't find the article. Supposedly, he recently ran out of the stockpile of his stick or something, so he's trying to find a replacement. Keep in mind, this is kinda huge when you realize that hockey players are apparently creatures of habit and are perhaps a little superstitious about their equipment sometimes to the point of ensuring that their hockey sticks are taped in a very specific manner.

Which Sticks are Scoring in the NHL? | The Hockey Gear Blog
Per this, Neal was using an Easton Mako once upon a time. I think it coincides with PSG going bankrupt ?(original owner of Easton and Bauer)

James Neal
Per this, he has switched to a Bauer Supreme 2S Pro

This, and I believe Neal is the type to start slow and get stronger as the season is longer... might be why I think he isn't looking great.

I'm sure it's the stick...
If Dino Ciccarelli can score 50 goals using a Victoriaville hunk of lumber and the same puck, Neal better figure it out.
Also Peeter's burying him on the third line.

 

[The Gnome]

Forgot to mention that a deep playoff hangover is a real thing, especially for older legs. Neal is one of those guys that is a lock year in and out. When he's not scoring, it doesn't look pretty, howver he isn't bad along the boards either. He's definitely miles ahead of brouwer. Either way, he'll get going, it just doesn't make sense to not stick him with quality play makers. Guy is a sniper, playing him with Sam "zero vision" Bennett and a developing Janko isn't a recipe for success considering the guy relies on play makers in order to bury goals. James Neal isn't a complete player, anyone thinking we were getting that in him was mistaken. We had goal scoring issues last year, bringing in Neal makes perfect sense, his usage however does not.

 

[Deen]

He's just painfully slow at this point. Can't keep up with the play and get into position. Awful signing.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Forgot to mention that a deep playoff hangover is a real thing, especially for older legs. Neal is one of those guys that is a lock year in and out. When he's not scoring, it doesn't look pretty, howver he isn't bad along the boards either. He's definitely miles ahead of brouwer. Either way, he'll get going, it just doesn't make sense to not stick him with quality play makers. Guy is a sniper, playing him with Sam "zero vision" Bennett and a developing Janko isn't a recipe for success considering the guy relies on play makers in order to bury goals. James Neal isn't a complete player, anyone thinking we were getting that in him was mistaken. We had goal scoring issues last year, bringing in Neal makes perfect sense, his usage however does not.

Neal with Bennett: 86:06 minutes
Neal without Bennett: 78:00 minutes
Bennett without Neal: 57:24 minutes

Neal with Bennett: 66.9 CF/60
Neal without Bennett: 52.31 CF/60
Bennett without Neal: 60.63 CF/60

Neal with Bennett: 47.39 FF/60
Neal without Bennett: 42.86 FF/60
Bennett without Neal: 36.15 FF/60

Neal with Bennett: 32.75 SF60
Neal without Bennett: 24.62 SF60
Bennett without Neal: 36.15 SF/60

Neal with Bennett: 2.79 GF/60
Neal without Bennett: 1.54 GF/60
Bennett without Neal: 2.09 GF/60

Neal with Bennett: 34.84 SCF/60
Neal without Bennett: 19.23 SCF/60
Bennett without Neal: 35.54 SCF/60

Time to face facts dude, Neal not finishing is on James Neal. Neal's had more ice time than Bennett and most of it's been with guys like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm, and "#1 center Sean Monahan". When Bennett's away from Neal it's been with guys like Garnet Hathaway and Michael Frolik. Neal is more than lucky to be playing with Bennett because Monahan can't carry him defensively and he can't play with Backlund against top lines. Neal has had chances on the power play and 4 on 4 away from Bennett and done shit all with those, too.

 

[The Gnome]

Neal with Bennett: 86:06 minutes
Neal without Bennett: 78:00 minutes
Bennett without Neal: 57:24 minutes

Neal with Bennett: 66.9 CF/60
Neal without Bennett: 52.31 CF/60
Bennett without Neal: 60.63 CF/60

Neal with Bennett: 47.39 FF/60
Neal without Bennett: 42.86 FF/60
Bennett without Neal: 36.15 FF/60

Neal with Bennett: 32.75 SF60
Neal without Bennett: 24.62 SF60
Bennett without Neal: 36.15 SF/60

Neal with Bennett: 2.79 GF/60
Neal without Bennett: 1.54 GF/60
Bennett without Neal: 2.09 GF/60

Neal with Bennett: 34.84 SCF/60
Neal without Bennett: 19.23 SCF/60
Bennett without Neal: 35.54 SCF/60

Time to face facts dude, Neal not finishing is on James Neal. Neal's had more ice time than Bennett and most of it's been with guys like Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm, and "#1 center Sean Monahan". When Bennett's away from Neal it's been with guys like Garnet Hathaway and Michael Frolik. Neal is more than lucky to be playing with Bennett because Monahan can't carry him defensively and he can't play with Backlund against top lines. Neal has had chances on the power play and 4 on 4 away from Bennett and done **** all with those, too.

Your love for all things Bennett knows no bounds. I don't care what they do with Bennett at this point as he's not top 6 material as of now. He has zero vision (though he's improving), and has almost zero ability to raise the play of his line mates with his do it myself garbage. Neal is a complimentary goal scorer, he should be placed on the 2nd line, not for half a game here and there, but permanently for a sustained period of time. Let him start to gel with Backlund and Tkachuk, they are more than capable of providing solid defense while benefiting by having a great sniper to work with.

Your entire narrative reeks of Bennett fanboy garbage, give it a rest. He's not that good at all, not saying he cannot be a great player as he grows, but as of right now he belongs nowhere but the bottom six and certainly deserves very little PP time. Neal is not a large enough defensive liability that he cannot play on our "shutdown line"...which is stupid, Backlund and Tkachuk are too talented to be placed in that role.

Bennett-Ryan-Frolik would suffice.

 

[The Gnome]

He's just painfully slow at this point. Can't keep up with the play and get into position. Awful signing.

He is slow, and our team now plays uptempo...I agree, this could be an issue, but I'm willing to give it time. It's not like Vegas had bricks attached to their feet.

 

[SKRusty]

BREATH it will all be okay in the morning. As long as we are winning Neal can score ZERO goals all season. Last time I checked we have won 2 in a row and points in our last 3.. M'kay. Bye-bye for now

 

[Bounces R Way]

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal is something I want to see more of. That snipe is what we're paying him for. More of that please.

 

[SKRusty]

I wouldn't be surprised to see more of:
Johnny Lindy and Really--Neally
Chucky Monahan Bennett
THen maybe:
Dube Backlund Frolik / Jankowski Backlund Frolik

Could really have 2 lines vying for # 1 Status. Backlund's line will be used as a shut down line more than they are now. I think this team works best when Peters forces the other team to try and match.

 

[Volica]

Neal now on-pace for 18 goals.
How quickly we forget about the bitching posters did on this forum.

 

[Fig]

Neal now on-pace for 18 goals.
How quickly we forget about the *****ing posters did on this forum.

I hope part of it is him getting use to the new stick.

 

[Mobiandi]

 

[Fig]

YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES! YES!

JAMES AND THE GIANT BE'ACH LINE!!!!!

 

[wingsfan17]

Said this when he signed,

“Neal is a complimentary player, you set him up and he spikes it down, he doesn’t make room for himself but if he has linemates that can find him open, he will score.

Over that 4 year span, he was on a 40 goal pace with Johansen. Other than Johansen, his centers were 3rd line centers AT BEST. They were Jarnkrok, Haula, and the ghost of Mike Fisher.

If he plays on the top line in Calgary, he’ll be great, otherwise expect another subpar 20-20 season.”

Neal being on the third line and second PP unit definitely isn’t where he thrives. He should still have more than three goals this season but you can tell by the fact he’s taking 1-2 shots a game that he’s not getting the looks he wants. Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm has looked great offensively, but if Lindholm adds 10 goals to the first like and Neal only adds 1 to the 3rd line, that’s worse than if Neal were to get 8 on the first line and Lindholm 5 on the 3rd line. I think there are guys ton of guys on this team that create their own opportunities (Neal is not one of them) and they are more fit to play on lines without playmakers.

Neal with Bennett: 86:06 minutes
Neal without Bennett: 78:00 minutes
Bennett without Neal: 57:24 minutes

No idea where you got these stats from, but I’m curious what is Neal’s TOI with Gaudreau? I imagine it’s under 25 minutes.

 

[Anglesmith]

Said this when he signed,

“Neal is a complimentary player, you set him up and he spikes it down, he doesn’t make room for himself but if he has linemates that can find him open, he will score.

Over that 4 year span, he was on a 40 goal pace with Johansen. Other than Johansen, his centers were 3rd line centers AT BEST. They were Jarnkrok, Haula, and the ghost of Mike Fisher.

If he plays on the top line in Calgary, he’ll be great, otherwise expect another subpar 20-20 season.”

Neal being on the third line and second PP unit definitely isn’t where he thrives. He should still have more than three goals this season but you can tell by the fact he’s taking 1-2 shots a game that he’s not getting the looks he wants. Gaudreau-Monahan-Lindholm has looked great offensively, but if Lindholm adds 10 goals to the first like and Neal only adds 1 to the 3rd line, that’s worse than if Neal were to get 8 on the first line and Lindholm 5 on the 3rd line. I think there are guys ton of guys on this team that create their own opportunities (Neal is not one of them) and they are more fit to play on lines without playmakers.



No idea where you got these stats from, but I’m curious what is Neal’s TOI with Gaudreau? I imagine it’s under 25 minutes.

The Flames' goal this year isn't to maximize how many points James Neal gets. Same can be said of his prior teams. You play to win the game.

 

[SKRusty]

The Flames' goal this year isn't to maximize how many points James Neal gets. Same can be said of his prior teams. You play to win the game.

You make a really good point AS. This is no longer a time of rebuilding where you play players to develop them. Rather it is a time to compete for a run at the cup where the team is constructed on a nightly basis with certain players on certain lines to give the Flames the best chance at winning the game while also putting a premium on developing the teams overall game to compete in the playoffs. Much of what is being built here in game 15 will dictate the success or failure come game 83 and on.

Hockey is not just about goals scored it is about defense, puck possession and the utilization of depth. The 3M line has contained some of the best lines in hockey 4-5 times already with very successful results. If the opposition isn't scoring often you win. So maybe it is counter productive to mess with that dynamic.

I don't think Peters will leave any rock unturned in his quest to maximize this line-up. He may settle on lines and combos you don't like but I trust there will be a method to his madness.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

What I like is how Peters is using his deployment of players. He started with the template left behind by Gully as a starting point and has been tinkering with it ever since.

What have we seen:

- He’s open to making adjustments including ones in-game.
- We’ve seen Bennett put with quality linemates and have success, in fact he’s played his best stretch as a Flame. He is simplifying his game and is thriving.
- We’ve seen that Lindholm can be a great fit on the topline and he can drive his own line.
- We’ve seen Tkachuk be able to play with the 3M line, used on the top PP and in other situations and is killing it offensively as a result.
- We’ve seen players that deserve to play are getting minutes regardless of their name.
- Vets or rookies are not safe from eating popcorn and the results have geneatated fierce competition.

 

[Nanuuk]

Yes Peters does all of that, but still hasn't settled on his lines (despite icing the same line-up for 3 games or so). I believe his challenge is to leverage Neal's capability and to try and get the elusive secondary scoring from other lines. So here is my thoughts du jour.

Gaudreau/Monahan/Neal - we lose possible possession time from not have RHS to take weak side face-offs, but should maintain scoring
Bennett/Lindholm/Czarnik - Lindy is a playmaker (Czarnik too) that might unlock Benny's potential. All 3 strong defensively
Tkachuk/Backlund/Frolik - The 3M line is a shutdown line, but still has offensive bit even if playing as the 3rd line
Dube/Jankowski/Hathaway - Energy with a good mix of skill

Yes I am partial to getting Czarnik in the line-up as he brings more offence (and not bad defensively either) than Hathaway or Ryan. I'm not understanding why he has been sitting so much other than you don't fiddle too much when you're winning.

 

[The Gnome]

I'm starting to think a Gaurdeau-Lindholm-Neal line would be deadly

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal
Tkachuk-Money-Frolik
Bennett-Backlund-Dube
Janko-Ryan-Czarnik/Hathaway

Guess it's dumb to mess with our top line pairing, but would be interesting to see.

 

[JPeeper]

I'm starting to think a Gaurdeau-Lindholm-Neal line would be deadly

Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal
Tkachuk-Money-Frolik
Bennett-Backlund-Dube
Janko-Ryan-Czarnik/Hathaway

Guess it's dumb to mess with our top line pairing, but would be interesting to see.

Get Frolik the f out of the top 6. Bennett on LW, Tkachuk on the RW for Monahan. I think they'd do real damage. Tkachuk and Bennett are both good cyclers and Monahan is severely underrated at doing it (in the 3rd against Colorado when away from Gaudreau he looked heaps better and more creative in the o-zone).

So:

Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal (this line outside of Lindy would get wrecked defensively whereas Bennett and Tkachuk are both good defensive wingers)