Player Discussion "The Real Deal" James Neal

[The Gnome]

Get Frolik the f out of the top 6. Bennett on LW, Tkachuk on the RW for Monahan. I think they'd do real damage. Tkachuk and Bennett are both good cyclers and Monahan is severely underrated at doing it (in the 3rd against Colorado when away from Gaudreau he looked heaps better and more creative in the o-zone).

So:

Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal (this line outside of Lindy would get wrecked defensively whereas Bennett and Tkachuk are both good defensive wingers)

I don't mind it, if Bennett can't excel with Monahan and Tkachuk then that would be pretty sad.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Get Frolik the f out of the top 6. Bennett on LW, Tkachuk on the RW for Monahan. I think they'd do real damage. Tkachuk and Bennett are both good cyclers and Monahan is severely underrated at doing it (in the 3rd against Colorado when away from Gaudreau he looked heaps better and more creative in the o-zone).

So:

Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal (this line outside of Lindy would get wrecked defensively whereas Bennett and Tkachuk are both good defensive wingers)

That top 6 is the best I’ve seen yet. Make it so.

 

[SKRusty]

Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett
Gaudreau-Lindholm-Neal (this line outside of Lindy would get wrecked defensively whereas Bennett and Tkachuk are both good defensive wingers)

That top 6 is the best I’ve seen yet. Make it so.

Against the Av's those lines made it almost impossible for the Av's to play with us. Now that is not to say every team will be like that but teams with less depth will have a problem dealing with those 2 lines plus the 3M line. It also gets either Johnny or Monahan away from the top D pairing... Unless it is Keith and Seabrook... But those 2 have been mortal this year so I am not as concerned.

 

[Dack]

Gaudreau is Jordan Eberle 2.0

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Gaudreau is Jordan Eberle 2.0

Nathan Gerbe*

 

[Dack]

Nathan Gerbe*

I legitimately thought I was in the negativity thread lmao

 

[tmurfin]

This whole made up Neal “situation” is blown out of proportion. He’s getting plenty of chances, it’s only a matter of time before the goals start going in. And with Gaudreau Mony, and Backlund Tkachuk seemingly stapled at the hips, I have no interest in saddling Bennett with Frolik.

Peters has and will blend the lines if he feels it’s not working, it’s not like we haven’t seen Neal next to multiple players so far, he’s had the most success and chemistry with Bennett.

And besides all that, this season is not about making Neal and Treliving look good. This is a team sport, if we’re winning, I don’t give a f*** if Neal plays 1 minute or 30.


He also played north of 18 minutes tonight so it’s a nonissue.

 

[Wish You Were Here]

This might be the first season that James Neal does not score 20 goals (unless he earns Top 6 minutes and PP1 time).
But, if he can put up anywhere close to 15 goals + 15 assists = 30 points while playing 3rd line minutes, I'd be quite satisfied.

 

[SKRusty]

This might be the first season that James Neal does not score 20 goals (unless he earns Top 6 minutes and PP1 time).
But, if he can put up anywhere close to 15 goals + 15 assists = 30 points while playing 3rd line minutes, I'd be quite satisfied.

Neal himself stated that moving cities is always a challenge and that he has to go through the process and is not worried about where he is right now.

It may take a little longer here in Calgary because of the coaching and player changes and unlike in Vegas he is not the only known in a bunch of unknowns. That said with the depth on this team it won't surprise me to see him closing in or bettering 30.

Everybody is being very premature in their assessment of Neal's play.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I don't mind it, if Bennett can't excel with Monahan and Tkachuk then that would be pretty sad.

Or maybe it would just be an indication that Bennett ought to play with uptempo players fast as or faster than him instead of two slow guys he is faster than, which we annually repeat wherher it is Granlund and Hudler, Versteeg and Brouwer, or Jankowski and Neal.

Bennett has had success on fast lines. Gaudreau-Bennett-Chiasson, Raymond-Bennett-Frolik, Bennett-Backlund-Frolik, and one line that looked real good this year was Bennett-Backlund-Lindholm.

Personally I do not like Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett as a line. I like Tkachuk and Bennett but I would put someone fast-ish with them. Maybe Frolik. Maybe Czarnik. Maybe Dube. Truly good lines always have two fast players at minimum. Gaudreau and Ferland. Gaudreau and Lindholm. Backlund and Frolik. But somehow it's sad if Bennett can't succeed with Tkachuk and Monahan, who haven't shown they can necessarily succeed period?

 

[tmurfin]

Neal himself stated that moving cities is always a challenge and that he has to go through the process and is not worried about where he is right now.

It may take a little longer here in Calgary because of the coaching and player changes and unlike in Vegas he is not the only known in a bunch of unknowns. That said with the depth on this team it won't surprise me to see him closing in or bettering 30.

Everybody is being very premature in their assessment of Neal's play.

Agreed. This season is still VERY young, and goal scorers like Neal are notoriously streaky, once he pots a couple the flood gates will open for a bit than rinse and repeat. I'm fine with him starting slow since Lindholm is scoring a ton atm. Good teams have depth that can carry the load when the top line isn't producing, Neal will help with that in due time.

 

[The Gnome]

Or maybe it would just be an indication that Bennett ought to play with uptempo players fast as or faster than him instead of two slow guys he is faster than, which we annually repeat wherher it is Granlund and Hudler, Versteeg and Brouwer, or Jankowski and Neal.

Bennett has had success on fast lines. Gaudreau-Bennett-Chiasson, Raymond-Bennett-Frolik, Bennett-Backlund-Frolik, and one line that looked real good this year was Bennett-Backlund-Lindholm.

Personally I do not like Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett as a line. I like Tkachuk and Bennett but I would put someone fast-ish with them. Maybe Frolik. Maybe Czarnik. Maybe Dube. Truly good lines always have two fast players at minimum. Gaudreau and Ferland. Gaudreau and Lindholm. Backlund and Frolik. But somehow it's sad if Bennett can't succeed with Tkachuk and Monahan, who haven't shown they can necessarily succeed period?

I don't even know where to start. Are you actually saying Tkachuk and Monahan haven't shown the ability to succeed. Outside of Gio and Gaudreau, they are our two best players. What are you talking about? There is no perfect scenario for Bennett, if you cannot find success with 2 of the best forwards in the NHL, then you don't belong in that position, period. Bennett has zero vision, routinely makes bad decisions with the puck and generally sinks his lines ability to produce. Now, he has shown improvment, which is nice. But he is not a top 6 player at this time. I love him for his heart and grit which is why I'd never pull him from the lineup. But if he ever wants to sniff the top 6 he really needs to work on his IQ. Unfortunately, that's not generally something players can fix easily, like say skating.

If you're saying that Tkachuk and Monahan haven't shown they can succeed together, then you are correct. Because they've never really played that much together outside of PP. But I'd wager a lot that they would find plenty of success. Tkachuk is a solid play-maker and can do the heavy lifting. Monahan is one of the best goal scorers in the league, it's not guarantee but I cannot imagine it being an epic fail.

 

[Kranix]

Not impressed with Neal in the Chicago game. How many times did he do a drop passed to nowhere as if it was the only play. He's lost out there unless Gaudreau is finessing him a pass.

 

[SKRusty]

Or maybe it would just be an indication that Bennett ought to play with uptempo players fast as or faster than him instead of two slow guys he is faster than, which we annually repeat wherher it is Granlund and Hudler, Versteeg and Brouwer, or Jankowski and Neal.

Bennett has had success on fast lines. Gaudreau-Bennett-Chiasson, Raymond-Bennett-Frolik, Bennett-Backlund-Frolik, and one line that looked real good this year was Bennett-Backlund-Lindholm.

Personally I do not like Tkachuk-Monahan-Bennett as a line. I like Tkachuk and Bennett but I would put someone fast-ish with them. Maybe Frolik. Maybe Czarnik. Maybe Dube. Truly good lines always have two fast players at minimum. Gaudreau and Ferland. Gaudreau and Lindholm. Backlund and Frolik. But somehow it's sad if Bennett can't succeed with Tkachuk and Monahan, who haven't shown they can necessarily succeed period?

Until Bennett actually puts up goals and assists he should stay on the third line...Full stop. He is playing with a first line winger and has played with Lindholm and Backs a fair bit when the lines have been put in the blender and he has not shown that he should be on the first line when given an opportunity on a couple of occasions now.

You can't argue that Peters doesn't like Benny or that Benny is being punished because IMO Peters is one of the largest fans of Sams. Look no further than Burkie's comments the other night for clarification of Sam's talent level. Bennett has had more opportunities than any other player on the Flames to play with the most talented players and time after time Sam is not able to play with them. So enough of this nonsense.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Until Bennett actually puts up goals and assists he should stay on the third line...Full stop. He is playing with a first line winger and has played with Lindholm and Backs a fair bit when the lines have been put in the blender and he has not shown that he should be on the first line when given an opportunity on a couple of occasions now.

You can't argue that Peters doesn't like Benny or that Benny is being punished because IMO Peters is one of the largest fans of Sams. Look no further than Burkie's comments the other night for clarification of Sam's talent level. Bennett has had more opportunities than any other player on the Flames to play with the most talented players and time after time Sam is not able to play with them. So enough of this nonsense.

LOL Neal is not a first line winger . . .

 

[Calgareee]

I still can’t wrap my head around how snake bitten Bennett is. If coming really close but not actually scoring goals was the goal of hockey he would be wearing #99.

I always hope that this year is the year and he starts converting on his opportunities but it just hasn’t happened yet. I wouldn’t be opposed to him getting another extended look in the top 6 because he’s definitely been putting in the work.

Time for him to cash in or I would like to see him traded. If for nothing else then to go somewhere where he gets an opportunity.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

LOL Neal is not a first line winger . . .

He's not. He's a top six winger, and has historically at times played at a top line level, and at worst is a complimentary piece to a top line.

 

[Rubi]

I compiled some data on the top 2018 UFA's. Neal isn't the worst of the lot but he's certainly not the best. The biggest bang for the buck has so far been David Perron.

2018 UFA	2018-2019 CAP HIT	TEAM	GP	GOALS	ASSISTS	POINTS	+/-	NOTES
JOHN TAVARES	7 years, $77MM	Maple Leafs	14	8	8	16	3
DAVID PERRON	4 years, $16MM	Blues	12	5	5	10	1
PATRICK MAROON	1 year, $1.75MM	Blues	12	0	7	7	-8
VALTTERI FILPPULA	1 year, $2.75MM	Islanders	13	4	3	7	4
MICHAEL GRABNER	3 years, $10.05MM	Coyotes	12	3	3	6	4
TYLER BOZAK	3 years, $15MM	Blues	12	3	3	6	-6
THOMAS VANEK	1 year, $3MM	Red Wings	12	2	3	5	-8
JAMES NEAL	5 years, $28.75MM	Flames	15	3	1	4	-3
LEO KOMAROV	4 years, $12MM	Islanders	13	2	2	4	2
DEREK RYAN	3 years, $9.375MM	Flames	14	1	2	3	0
RILEY NASH	3 years, $8.25MM	Blue Jackets	14	0	2	2	-1
RILEY SHEAHAN	1 year, $2.1MM	Penguins	12	1	1	2	-6
MATT CALVERT	3 years, $8.4MM	Avalanche	14	0	2	2	-2
JAMES VAN RIEMSDYK	5 years, $35MM	Flyers	2	0	1	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-13
THOMAS PLEKANEC	1 year $3.5MM	Canadiens	3	1	0	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-06
JAY BEAGLE	4 years, $12MM	Canucks	5	0	1	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-24
PAUL STASNY	3 years, $19.5MM	Golden Knights	3	0	0	0	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-12-14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[SmellOfVictory]

James Neal is easily a top 4 RW in the NHL. It's too bad he's stuck on the Flames' depth chart behind Lindholm and Frolik, who round out the top 3. Imagine the 50 goal season we'd see if our boy James Neal was paired up with elite playmaker Sean Monahan. Better watch out, McDavid, the Art Ross race is heating up!

 

[Mr Snrub]

I compiled some data on the top 2018 UFA's. Neal isn't the worst of the lot but he's certainly not the best. The biggest bang for the buck has so far been David Perron.

2018 UFA	2018-2019 CAP HIT	TEAM	GP	GOALS	ASSISTS	POINTS	+/-	NOTES
JOHN TAVARES	7 years, $77MM	Maple Leafs	14	8	8	16	3
DAVID PERRON	4 years, $16MM	Blues	12	5	5	10	1
PATRICK MAROON	1 year, $1.75MM	Blues	12	0	7	7	-8
VALTTERI FILPPULA	1 year, $2.75MM	Islanders	13	4	3	7	4
MICHAEL GRABNER	3 years, $10.05MM	Coyotes	12	3	3	6	4
TYLER BOZAK	3 years, $15MM	Blues	12	3	3	6	-6
THOMAS VANEK	1 year, $3MM	Red Wings	12	2	3	5	-8
JAMES NEAL	5 years, $28.75MM	Flames	15	3	1	4	-3
LEO KOMAROV	4 years, $12MM	Islanders	13	2	2	4	2
DEREK RYAN	3 years, $9.375MM	Flames	14	1	2	3	0
RILEY NASH	3 years, $8.25MM	Blue Jackets	14	0	2	2	-1
RILEY SHEAHAN	1 year, $2.1MM	Penguins	12	1	1	2	-6
MATT CALVERT	3 years, $8.4MM	Avalanche	14	0	2	2	-2
JAMES VAN RIEMSDYK	5 years, $35MM	Flyers	2	0	1	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-13
THOMAS PLEKANEC	1 year $3.5MM	Canadiens	3	1	0	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-06
JAY BEAGLE	4 years, $12MM	Canucks	5	0	1	1	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-11-24
PAUL STASNY	3 years, $19.5MM	Golden Knights	3	0	0	0	0	INJURED, Estimated Return Date: 2018-12-14

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Not quite. If you really want to calculate who's getting the best bang for their buck, you should divide the player's AAV by their points per game. The lower the number, the less money the team is paying per point.

With that in mind, Neal is the worst value player on this list among ones who have played at least 12 games. Maroon is the best, with Perron in second. Obviously, just calculating how much money we're paying them and dividing it by their rate of production is a flawed way of analysing how good a player is, especially early in the year, but I think the fact that Neal comes in last place indicates that he's not earning anywhere near the money he's being given.

I expect Neal to pick it up a little but if he doesn't it's another truly brutal contract by Treliving. Also worth noting that Ryan ranks 10th out of the 13 guys.

 

[1989]

Not quite. If you really want to calculate who's getting the best bang for their buck, you should divide the player's AAV by their points per game. The lower the number, the less money the team is paying per point.

With that in mind, Neal is the worst value player on this list among ones who have played at least 12 games. Maroon is the best, with Perron in second. Obviously, just calculating how much money we're paying them and dividing it by their rate of production is a flawed way of analysing how good a player is, especially early in the year, but I think the fact that Neal comes in last place indicates that he's not earning anywhere near the money he's being given.

I expect Neal to pick it up a little but if he doesn't it's another truly brutal contract by Treliving. Also worth noting that Ryan ranks 10th out of the 13 guys.

The flaw being not every UFA is brought in for scoring.

 

[Rubi]

The flaw being not every UFA is brought in for scoring.

Neal wasn't? That's news to me and a lot of others. Our ability to score, or lack thereof, was the #1 issue with Treliving and he admitted it in an interview.

 

[SKRusty]

The flaw being not every UFA is brought in for scoring.

Neal was brought in to add to the scoring depth on the right side. Frolik is actually scoring with 7 goals and he and the rest of the 3M line create one of the best shut down lines in hockey this year. So far they have shut down the Johansen & Forsberg line twice, the MacKinnon line twice, Tavares and the Leafs who put up 5 against the Penguins, contained Ovie and Kuznetsov, and contained Kane and Toews.

So to appease a few the team should sacrifice that capability so Neal can score a couple goals?

Much of the chatter about Neal not being on the second line is narrow minded. As long as the Flames are winning games who cares who is scoring. To this point the Flames are the only team with 5 count them 5 Players with more than 15 points.

Neal will score and more importantly he will be here when he really excels... The play-offs.

 

[Flames Fanatic]

The flaw being not every UFA is brought in for scoring.

The flaw being that as OKG pointed out correctly, unless you are near the top of the league in scoring every year, players are inevitably streaky, so judging someone based off of 15 games is silly.

James Neal got off to a stupidly hot start with Vegas last year and then cooled off for a few months. Then finished decently strong. If memory serves correctly.

 

[Rubi]

The flaw being that as OKG pointed out correctly, unless you are near the top of the league in scoring every year, players are inevitably streaky, so judging someone based off of 15 games is silly.

James Neal got off to a stupidly hot start with Vegas last year and then cooled off for a few months. Then finished decently strong. If memory serves correctly.

I hate to burst your bubble but Neal scored 1 goal (Mar 30) from Feb 11 to Apr 7 last year. Thats a span of 17 games.
Although he did score 6 times in 20 games in the playoffs last year. He also had 5 assists.