Rumor: The put your money where your mouth is and guess who Sakic will trade for poll/competition.

[The Abusement Park]

Avalanche Forwards TOI

Who is behind Compher who should be playing more than him?

I mean Bura, LOC, NAK, Newhook should all be playing more than Compher? Compher is the worst player on this team at this point.

 

[Ararana]

So far Giroux to Colorado has been mentioned by Friedmann, Pagnotta, and NRD.

Unfortunately, Dater says he doesn't see it happening. Oh well, so close.

And he immediately back tracked after saying that. Which is a big tell that he has no idea what he's talking about.

What would people trade for Chychrun?

Girard is the only piece I'd give up, and it's a lateral move at best. I think Girard is the better player (with the better contract) between the two in a vacuum but I think Chychrun is a better fit for the Avs.

I'd personally prefer a Byram/Chychrun pairing going forward than a Byram/Girard pairing.

But I don't think Chychrun is very realistic for the Avs. They really don't need him and there are teams who badly badly do and will give up a huge price for him.

 

[AvsGuy]

Giroux (50% retained) + Braun for Compher, Helleson, Kaut, Bowers, picks..... if needed Olafsson (rather give him up over Barron)

This is pretty close to my proposal that's either been sullenly agreed with or shredded to shit by Flyers fans



F JT Compher
F Martin Kaut
D Drew Helleson
1st round pick in 2023 (Colorado has the option to defer to 2024)
Conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (if Colorado makes the SCF and Giroux plays half their playoff games)




F Claude Giroux (50% retained)
F Morgan Frost

 

[nightonthesun]

Speaking of which, we should draft him with a late pick :

David Jesus Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

That's the thinking man's draft pick right there.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Avalanche Forwards TOI

Who is behind Compher who should be playing more than him?

Literally anyone

 

[The Kingslayer]

This is pretty close to my proposal that's either been sullenly agreed with or shredded to shit by Flyers fans



F JT Compher
F Martin Kaut
D Drew Helleson
1st round pick in 2023 (Colorado has the option to defer to 2024)
Conditional 2nd round pick in 2024 (if Colorado makes the SCF and Giroux plays half their playoff games)




F Claude Giroux (50% retained)
F Morgan Frost

Ill keep Helleson and they can keep Frost.

 

[nightonthesun]

Ill keep Helleson and they can keep Frost.

I would guess that to bring giroux in, Helleson can't come out. Otherwise what are they trading for? A cap dump, a very late first, and Martin "Question Mark" Kaut

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Ill keep Helleson and they can keep Frost.

I really just want to see what we have in Helleson. I really think he's underrated around here and would fit in really nicely with the Avs. He's got the skating and defensive instincts to really fill a gap in this teams defensive unit. I could see him establishing himself pretty quickly as an important cog.

 

[Richard88]

Oh man, I am horrible when it comes to value. I rather pick the players to go after and let Sakic deal with the negotiations.

- Lehkonen is soon to be RFA and those cost more. I would give up Jost + 3rd round pick for him, however pretty sure Habs would rather have a high level prospect instead.

- Beauvillier also has a great deal, so I suspect a B+ propsect and a 1st rounder in 2023.

- Faksa would be the hardest, Stars probably consider themselves a playoff team and it's an inner-division trade. B+ prospect and 1st round 2023.

Thanks for your thoughtful response.

Jost + 3rd for Lehkonen seems reasonable, particularly if there's 50% retention on Lehkonen. Montreal fans seem adamant that he's worth a 1st (especially after the Seravalli comments comparing him to Coleman two years ago), but in this market something around what Janmark got last year (2nd + 3rd) or 2nd + prospect would probably be what gets it done. Maybe 2nd + Kaut/Ranta/Bowers would work, depending on how one rates those prospects.

Beauvillier's puckhounding would be a nice fit, but are NYI open to moving him? Seems like a good fit and contract for their team.

As for Faksa, his metrics have really fallen off a cliff the last while (as exemplified by the tweet below) and I've seen rumblings about fans being fed up with him and wanting him and his caphit gone. It would probably cost a bit extra from Colorado due to be in division as you said, but I wonder if they wouldn't consider something like Faksa for Compher + good pick/prospect just to get out from the length of that contract given that he seems to be in DGAF mode on that team. That's the same team that bought out Nichuskin after all so maybe Sakic could work his magic again.



Hypothetically if we did swing Jost + 3rd and something like Compher + 1st for Faksa we'd be looking extremely well balanced offensively and defensively throughout the lineup, so it's easy to see why you made the suggestions you did with those 3 players.

Landeskog -- Mackinnon -- Rantanen
Nichuskin ----- Kadri -------- Burakovsky
Lehkonen ---- Newhook --- O'Connor
Maltsev -------- Faksa -------- NAK

That said, I don't envisage that Sakic would want to part with a 1st for what would be a 4C this season, but having that matchup C who can then slide up to 3C next year would be such a perfect fit. Personally I'd love to see teams try to score late in games against a line of Lehkonen-Faksa-Nichuskin lol

 

[The Kingslayer]

I would guess that to bring giroux in, Helleson can't come out. Otherwise what are they trading for? A cap dump, a very late first, and Martin "Question Mark" Kaut

WHy not? All Claude has to do is tell Fletcher he wants to go to Denver and nowhere else. Gentleman Joe in return will give Philly a third, Compher, and Kaut.

 

[Avs71]

JTC is the 8th forward in even strength ice time per game. Leaving Newhook (30 seconds less per game), Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Helm, and whatever AHL callup behind him in average ice time.

I fail to see who from that list would be an upgrade to have on the ice a significant amount more to cut Compher’s minutes.

He is the 6th forward in average PP TOI/game. Yes, Newhook and Nuke should be on the ice more than him, but we’re talking about less than a minute a game.

I could not care less if Compher gets booted from
the team. But he isn’t playing because Bednar loves him. He is playing because Helm, Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Sherwood, Megna etc are usually on the roster.

 

[nightonthesun]

WHy not? All Claude has to do is tell Fletcher he wants to go to Denver and nowhere else. Gentleman Joe in return will give Philly a third, Compher, and Kaut.

Hope that's how it plays out; I dunno if we'll be so lucky as to be his only choice but if so you have a point

 

[The Moops]

NAK and Newhook at a minimum should be getting way more ice time than JTC... I'm sure arguments could be made for the rest one way or another.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I really just want to see what we have in Helleson. I really think he's underrated around here and would fit in really nicely with the Avs. He's got the skating and defensive instincts to really fill a gap in this teams defensive unit. I could see him establishing himself pretty quickly as an important cog.

Same. I think he can add an element to the defense that's lacking at the moment. Always saw him as a potential EJ replacement.

 

[The Kingslayer]

NAK and Newhook at a minimum should be getting way more ice time than JTC... I'm sure arguments could be made for the rest one way or another.

Newhook is earning Jareds trust more and more. I hope to see his ice time go up soon. Hes looked great in the 2 games where he actually got to play with some talent.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

Same. I think he can add an element to the defense that's lacking at the moment. Always saw him as a potential EJ replacement.

I'll admit, I haven't watched him play a ton, but when I have I just get the feeling that he could turn into a Slvain-esque player for us. What I mean by that is that he's just really solid defensively, has the skating to keep up with the better players in the league, but also the size to handle some of the bigger guys. Just a low event player.

 

[The Kingslayer]

I'll admit, I haven't watched him play a ton, but when I have I just get the feeling that he could turn into a Slvain-esque player for us. What I mean by that is that he's just really solid defensively, has the skating to keep up with the better players in the league, but also the size to handle some of the bigger guys. Just a low event player.

Last time I saw him was at the WJC and I was impressed. He impressed me a lot actually in that tourney. He shut down that Canadian offense in the finals.

 

[The Abusement Park]

JTC is the 8th forward in even strength ice time per game. Leaving Newhook (30 seconds less per game), Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Helm, and whatever AHL callup behind him in average ice time.

I fail to see who from that list would be an upgrade to have on the ice a significant amount more to cut Compher’s minutes.

He is the 6th forward in average PP TOI/game. Yes, Newhook and Nuke should be on the ice more than him, but we’re talking about less than a minute a game.

I could not care less if Compher gets booted from
the team. But he isn’t playing because Bednar loves him. He is playing because Helm, Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Sherwood, Megna etc are usually on the roster.

Again literally anyone. He’s a boat anchor and every line he plays on performs significantly worse when he’s on it.

 

[Richard88]

JTC is the 8th forward in even strength ice time per game. Leaving Newhook (30 seconds less per game), Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Helm, and whatever AHL callup behind him in average ice time.

I fail to see who from that list would be an upgrade to have on the ice a significant amount more to cut Compher’s minutes.

He is the 6th forward in average PP TOI/game. Yes, Newhook and Nuke should be on the ice more than him, but we’re talking about less than a minute a game.

I could not care less if Compher gets booted from
the team. But he isn’t playing because Bednar loves him. He is playing because Helm, Jost, NAK, MacDermid, Sherwood, Megna etc are usually on the roster.

I think there's a fair argument to be made that NAK has taken Compher's job, given that he's outscoring him by 0.53 points/60 (28% more), especially when you take caphits into account ($3.5m vs $1.075m).

NAK's 28% more production doesn't seem like a fluke either, given that NAK is 6th in shots/60 (8.2) compared to Compher who is 15th (5.97).

NAK is also 2nd in hits/60 (10.99) compared to Compher who's 16th (2.89), so the agitation element is also in his favour. The penalties are an issue though admittedly, but that should be less of an issue in the playoffs when whistle's get put away.

If Compher was earning similar to what LOC, NAK, and even Jost are earning then I doubt anyone would have an issue with him on the roster. But the fact is that his output right now is at best equal with guys who are paid far less, so there's an opportunity cost involved with keeping him in a bottom 6 role, instead of trying to move him to optimize that capspace a bit better.

 

[nammerus]

I think there's a fair argument to be made that NAK has taken Compher's job, given that he's outscoring him by 0.53 points/60 (28% more), especially when you take caphits into account ($3.5m vs $1.075m).

NAK's 28% more production doesn't seem like a fluke either, given that NAK is 6th in shots/60 (8.2) compared to Compher who is 15th (5.97).

NAK is also 2nd in hits/60 (10.99) compared to Compher who's 16th (2.89), so the agitation element is also in his favour. The penalties are an issue though admittedly, but that should be less of an issue in the playoffs when whistle's get put away.

If Compher was earning similar to what LOC, NAK, and even Jost are earning then I doubt anyone would have an issue with him on the roster. But the fact is that his output right now is at best equal with guys who are paid far less, so there's an opportunity cost involved with keeping him in a bottom 6 role, instead of trying to move him to optimize that capspace a bit better.

View attachment 504040

Please forward this to Sakic.

 

[Avs71]

I think there's a fair argument to be made that NAK has taken Compher's job, given that he's outscoring him by 0.53 points/60 (28% more), especially when you take caphits into account ($3.5m vs $1.075m).

NAK's 28% more production doesn't seem like a fluke either, given that NAK is 6th in shots/60 (8.2) compared to Compher who is 15th (5.97).

NAK is also 2nd in hits/60 (10.99) compared to Compher who's 16th (2.89), so the agitation element is also in his favour. The penalties are an issue though admittedly, but that should be less of an issue in the playoffs when whistle's get put away.

If Compher was earning similar to what LOC, NAK, and even Jost are earning then I doubt anyone would have an issue with him on the roster. But the fact is that his output right now is at best equal with guys who are paid far less, so there's an opportunity cost involved with keeping him in a bottom 6 role, instead of trying to move him to optimize that capspace a bit better.

View attachment 504040

I’m not saying to keep him, I’m saying he gets played because the guys behind him are no better. The comment earlier was Bednar has a blind love for Compher. He doesn’t. He uses him because the roster dictates for him to get used. Compher can be considered trash, and so can basically all the forwards behind him in ice time and production, except Newhook who is a rookie.

We would be no happier if Jost, Helm, MacDermid, AHL guys, etc were playing more. Even LOC has diminishing returns with more ice time.

I would love to see Compher gone and somebody better brought in. It doesn’t change the fact there are about 4 worse forwards on the team than him.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

With regard to the Lehkonen/Coleman comparison let's not forget that Coleman's price went up to a 1st by Tampa at the last second so they could take him away from us. IMO the same thing would have to happen for Lehkonen to fetch a 1st as well. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that the going rate for a player like those guys is a 2nd and maybe a + attached to it. Tampa decided to overpay at the last second so they would get him. It turned out to be a good decision by them though. It could end up being the same regarding Lehkonen.

 

[Richard88]

I’m not saying to keep him, I’m saying he gets played because the guys behind him are no better. The comment earlier was Bednar has a blind love for Compher. He doesn’t. He uses him because the roster dictates for him to get used. Compher can be considered trash, and so can basically all the forwards behind him in ice time and production, except Newhook who is a rookie.

We would be no happier if Jost, Helm, MacDermid, AHL guys, etc were playing more. Even LOC has diminishing returns with more ice time.

I would love to see Compher gone and somebody better brought in. It doesn’t change the fact there are about 4 worse forwards on the team than him.

I do agree with your overall point. Bednar doesn't make decisions on who to give ice-time to based on their caphits. He sees 23 guys on the ice in practice and is going to use whoever he thinks can help get him win games.

That said, clearly from a roster management perspective if you're the GM and trying to find areas on the roster to optimize then Compher's output vs caphit would be pretty obvious.

 

[Richard88]

With regard to the Lehkonen/Coleman comparison let's not forget that Coleman's price went up to a 1st by Tampa at the last second so they could take him away from us. IMO the same thing would have to happen for Lehkonen to fetch a 1st as well. I'm not saying it won't happen. I'm just saying that the going rate for a player like those guys is a 2nd and maybe a + attached to it. Tampa decided to overpay at the last second so they would get him. It turned out to be a good decision by them though. It could end up being the same regarding Lehkonen.

Tampa will probably be one of the teams interested in Lehkonen given that they'll want to replace Coleman, and they have a distinct advantage given that they have a 1st in this years draft (though they don't have a 2nd in 2022 or 2023). If it came down to it I think Brisbois would part with that 2022 1st to secure Lehkonen, which would top an offer of a 2023 2nd+ from Colorado unless Sakic offers a prospect who Montreal really like.

Knowing Brisbois he'd probably also get retention from Montreal on Lehkonen to bring his caphit down to $1.15m, and double-retention from another team to bring it down further to under $600k.

 

[Richard88]

@S E P H, As head of the Faksa fan club, how do you respond to this?