The Player(s) that Got Away 2015 Draft - or ALL prior draft discussion here

Status
Not open for further replies.

AngryMilkcrates

End of an Era
Jun 4, 2016
16,568
26,451
There are probably a few GMs that would enjoy 6 straight years of 21-38 goals As opposed to Jordan Caron, Zach Hamil and Joe Colborne

Jordan Caron & Joe Colborne was a power forward and Zach Hamil a leading scorer in his league when they were all drafted. Are you saying we should NOT aim for scorers then?
I mean, they were all highly rated by everyone in the hockey world.

It's not like Boston was picking 7th rounders in the first 2 rounds.
 

member 96824

Guest
Is this thread giving the Bruins GM due criticism

or

is it a 5 year long and still running whinefest that we don't have 3 more Stanley Cups and this is an excuse to blame it on?

I dunno, I think it’s relevant to this offseason in particular because the lack of a transition plan between cores is beginning to be exposed. The time has come where those draft picks are the most costly.

I think it’s fair to point to that draft as not only Sweeney’s biggest opportunity, but also his biggest swing and miss. Both to set the Bruins up for some crazy sustainable success and a perfect transition, but also in the current as the Bruins were exposed for a lack of depth for the 2nd time in 3 years(thankfully that 1 year saw Washington, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay all outed early, huh).

But even after that, it’s been talked about a bit in here as well since it’s all encompassing but there are definitely the same questions about the Frederic and Vaak picks too. Frederic was a reach, not of the Seny kind but still a reach. Vaak it was just kind of shocking to see them go D over Thomas.
 

MattFromFranklin

Fire Sweeney and Neely
Jun 19, 2012
4,156
3,114
Franklin, MA
The majority of the big draft ranking sources had Chychrun over McAvoy, and the consensus of these rankings had Chychrun at 9 and McAvoy at 17.

2016 NHL Draft Consensus Rankings

I remember not being happy at all when they took McAvoy after Chychrun slid. Sometimes it's the right choice.
That's a good point, but 2016 wasn't viewed as a very strong draft. On the other hand, the 2015 draft was viewed by many teams, scouts, and analysts as a very deep draft, where 2nd round picks had the value of 1st round picks. In drafts that aren't viewed as being very deep, like 2016, it's normal to take a risk if there are a bunch of players with very little separation. You don't take gambles in deep drafts, like in 2015. Although the Zboril pick hasn't worked out so far, he was drafted in the range that he was supposed to go. Senyshyn was viewed as a mid-2nd round pick, and DeBrusk was a late 1st-early 2nd guy. Senyshyn has been a complete and total bust, and although DeBrusk is a "hit," players like Connor, Barzal and Konecny were viewed at the time as superior prospects, and they have all panned out to be superior players. You could make the point that the Bruins "blew" all 3 picks.
 
Last edited:

Barnum

Registered User
Aug 28, 2014
5,609
2,674
‘Murica Ex-Pat - UK
Will all due respect, that’s bullshit. DeBrusk and Senyshyn were clear reaches, and everyone knew it back then, even on draft day. They’ve been proven correct, because Barzal, Connor, Konecny and Boeser are all notably better than DeBrusk and Senyshyn.

Explain...cuz, I think your hindsight is nothing more than hindsight.

Teams draft to their needs at the moment not to the fandom’s 20/20 hindsight.

Ask me why?

Here, I will answer for you : You are not in the NHL or in any way affiliated with NHL management. You are just another JoeSmoe on the Internet like I am with an opinion. Nothing more.
 

Jean_Jacket41

Neely = HOF
Jun 25, 2003
25,690
14,171
With the smurfs
I dunno, I think it’s relevant to this offseason in particular because the lack of a transition plan between cores is beginning to be exposed. The time has come where those draft picks are the most costly.

I think it’s fair to point to that draft as not only Sweeney’s biggest opportunity, but also his biggest swing and miss. Both to set the Bruins up for some crazy sustainable success and a perfect transition, but also in the current as the Bruins were exposed for a lack of depth for the 2nd time in 3 years(thankfully that 1 year saw Washington, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay all outed early, huh).

But even after that, it’s been talked about a bit in here as well since it’s all encompassing but there are definitely the same questions about the Frederic and Vaak picks too. Frederic was a reach, not of the Seny kind but still a reach. Vaak it was just kind of shocking to see them go D over Thomas.

There is a plan in $$$ allocation after this season when they’ll have Krejci money to go after another C, be it by trade or UFA.
 

Jean_Jacket41

Neely = HOF
Jun 25, 2003
25,690
14,171
With the smurfs
Problem with these « players that got away » thread that is a big forum for the whining about Barzal and others missed 2015 draft instead of Senyshyn is the fact that these posters just look at the players that got away.

What about those that the Bruins stole?

Pasta
McAvoy
Bergeron
Krejci
Chara

All these undrafted UFA like Krug.

Wheeler that went UFA.

Sure they missed with Senyshyn instead of some concensus guys. But Zboril was also one of these concensus guys and they still got no production as of now. D takes longer and he still have value tough.

But DeBrusk was a great pick just for his playoffs production against the Leafs. Anyone not liking this pick just want his parallel universe where Connor score more important goals then him instead of scoring zero goal like he did this year when his team relied on him after key injuries in a quick exit.

Again, I wanted Barzal and Bruins missed badly with Senyshyn even if I can see him having a good Paille career.

But the reason the Bruins are a perennial contender is because they hit more often then other teams.

Not only with the draft. But also UFA, undrafted UFA, trades and master signings like the best 1st line in NHL under 20M.

Whining about the 2015 draft is like whining about the Bruins getting swept in 1993 by the Sabre’s.

Get over it.
 

member 96824

Guest
Explain...cuz, I think your hindsight is nothing more than hindsight.

Teams draft to their needs at the moment not to the fandom’s 20/20 hindsight.

Ask me why?

Here, I will answer for you : You are not in the NHL or in any way affiliated with NHL management. You are just another JoeSmoe on the Internet like I am with an opinion. Nothing more.

Oh well jeez shut the boards down then.

What if we were saying “should have picked Barzal and Connor there” that night or the next day?

Is every decision the team makes not subject to looking back and assessing judgement, good or bad?

@Estlin got it right. Calling it hindsight bias to say you wanted the guy ranked #9 over the guy ranked #40 is bullshit. Even if Senyshyn was on the B’s scoring 20 a year, it would still be bullshit.
 

member 96824

Guest
All drafts in ALL sports are a crapshoot! Period.

This is also bullshit fwiw.

If it were, teams wouldn’t invest millions into their amateur scouting programs and instead just head to the zoo and give the chimps a dartboard.

Sure from year to year draft class quality varies wildly and I’m sure there will be a couple of anecdotal outliers that the entire point is based on (Yakupov, Daigle like earlier) but on the whole, it’s absolutely not true.

If you do believe this though, we have an opening in the sim league. Would love to have you :laugh:.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

CharaBadSenyshynGawd

Registered User
Jun 18, 2017
1,227
1,174
Jordan Caron & Joe Colborne was a power forward and Zach Hamil a leading scorer in his league when they were all drafted. Are you saying we should NOT aim for scorers then?
I mean, they were all highly rated by everyone in the hockey world.

It's not like Boston was picking 7th rounders in the first 2 rounds.
I think a scorer would be a guy scoring 21-40 ( missed the 40 goal year!) goals for 6 straight years.

not sure what you’re going with here. If the argument is they were highly rated as prospects, sure. But every GM who’s ever held a job is taking Semin over these guys.
 

The don godfather

Registered User
Jul 5, 2018
18,974
19,974
Woodbridge Ontario
Getting Carlo stud in the second round makes us elite defensively. Oh yea that lauzon kid looks good too. Donny gets hammered a lot but his draft record isnt as bad as people portray here.
 

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
40,945
20,594
Assuming Zboril pick was understandable, and people are generally happy with the DeBrusk pick, it’s pretty high praise that the big criticism of Sweeney’s drafting is one pick from 5 years ago. Kind of praising with faint damnation.

Yeah worth praising Sweeney for missing a franchise center which was there for the taking, which everyone knew and is now a major issue loving forward.

Also Connor would be much better than DeBrusk on Lw, real top line winger which again was given and secondary scoring a major issue for Bruins.

Sweeney set himself to retool the core and messed it up
 

LouJersey

Registered User
Jun 29, 2002
68,513
43,067
Graves to Gardens
youtu.be
Explain...cuz, I think your hindsight is nothing more than hindsight.

Teams draft to their needs at the moment not to the fandom’s 20/20 hindsight.

Ask me why?

Here, I will answer for you : You are not in the NHL or in any way affiliated with NHL management. You are just another JoeSmoe on the Internet like I am with an opinion. Nothing more.

How come my first round picks were far better than the Bruins GM's overall since?

05 Oshie
06 kessel
07 couture
08 Carlson
09 Olsen
10 seguin
11 hamilton
12 finn
14 pastrnak
15 zboril, barzal, connor
16 Chychryn, Morrison
17 Vesalainen
19 Kaliyev

From my couch. Better.
 

DKH

The Bergeron of HF
Feb 27, 2002
74,580
53,100
Sure absolutely, but that's a very different conversation. Anyone who faults the GMs for taking Nail Yakupov and Alexander Daigle are doing so on pure hindsight bias. Hundreds of people scouting Yakupov and Daigle and all came to the same or very similar conclusions at the time. Those GMs were acting on the best information available to them at the time. That's more of a conversation about player, player development, and overall draft class quality. Zboril for example, falls into this category so far.

Senyshyn on the other hand, is a GM and scouting staff actively bucking the information available to them in order to take a risk. Even if that risk worked out, I would argue it was still not a smart risk to take and if they took it over and over and over again they would eventually be broke.
Murray Oliver was arguably my fathers best friend and our neighbor as a kid - after he was traded to Toronto my folks would go out and spend a week each hockey season and they’d cone down for 2 weeks in the summer. This went on till my father passed but my mother would still go stay with them she was so tight with his wife Helen.

I kid you not everytime they would come back I’d get Leafs stuff - I had Leafs gloves, jerseys, pennants, year books - I also got to know all those Leafs. My guy was Dave Keon and he was a sweetheart- I can remember him as a kid sitting on my parents boat and thinking ‘man I’m hanging with Dave Keon’.

Oliver though was a thousand game player, all star, and top 10 scorer some years~ and after retiring eventually scout, assistant coach, coach and Lou Nanne right hand man with Minnesota; and also Pat Quinn in Vancouver. Plus it was cool he was Gordie Howe’s youngest son Murray God father who he was named after (I got to know Howe because of that as a kid but another time), Oliver for whatever loved talking hockey with me / he would visit whenever Minnesota, Toronto, or Vancouver were in and my mother would make lobster rolls he’d come by and we would sit there and discuss everything from drafting Tie Doni and the size of god neck to was Cam Neely the closest thing to Gordie Howe, to your cousin plays at SJP with Bobby Carpenter we are going to draft him what’s the inside your cousin says.

Long winded but one day we get on his North Stars taking Brian Lawton over Pat LaFontaine who went 3 to the Islanders. I mention such a game changer but he says Minnesota knows in hindsight yeh it was but at the time Lawton was the guy and internally there was never any debate. File under: Shit Happens.

ironically our discussion actually went to the impact on the Whalers not taking LaFontaine and taking Sylvan Turgeon a good sometimes very good player but not transcendent like LaFontaine

and since everything comes back to Barzal that is who he reminds me of - LaFontaine. Smallish in height but solid and electric and an Islanders

I build my foundation off Red Line these days then with that base I expand to other scouting sites and publications to build and identify outliers Woodlief may have.

My conclusion the day of the 2015 Draft was I had a major hard on for Matt Barzal. He was rated 9 In Red Line but supported on HF prospects thread and on all sorts of publications

having a hard on and drafting Barzal (the equivalent of getting laid as any guy will attest doesn’t always line up at the same time). Well as I watched the draft unfold at the Bruins Draft party in their Legends restaurant on their gazillion TVs and free alcohol my Bruinsgasm was getting closer and closer

all of a sudden he as in Matt Barzal is there

The Bruins are there - they aren’t only there, they are going to be there a while

I was so certain I wad going to get Barzal I told my daughter and others at the table this kid is very cute he’s going to sell a million jerseys what a bleeping home run

And then the unthinkable
 
Last edited:

Blowfish

Count down ...
Jan 13, 2005
22,956
15,056
Southwestern Ontario
Murray Oliver was arguably my fathers best friend and our neighbor as a kid - after he was traded to Toronto my folks would go out and spend a week each hockey season and they’d cone down for 2 weeks in the summer. This went on till my father passed but my mother would still go stay with them she was so tight with his wife Helen.

I was so certain I wad going to get Barzal I told my daughter and others at the table this kid is very cute he’s going to sell a million jerseys what a bleeping home run

And then the unthinkable

unfortunately this draft the bruins were AH big headed fools and royally f**d up. I can't imagine where the bruins would be today had they just stuck to the consensus picks.

I get not every draft pick makes it however this was foolish move. I won't get over this!!!! Three risky picks in a row...WTF????
 
  • Like
Reactions: BTO

esmith3283

Registered User
Feb 14, 2010
164
102
I dunno, I think it’s relevant to this offseason in particular because the lack of a transition plan between cores is beginning to be exposed. The time has come where those draft picks are the most costly.

I think it’s fair to point to that draft as not only Sweeney’s biggest opportunity, but also his biggest swing and miss. Both to set the Bruins up for some crazy sustainable success and a perfect transition, but also in the current as the Bruins were exposed for a lack of depth for the 2nd time in 3 years(thankfully that 1 year saw Washington, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay all outed early, huh).

But even after that, it’s been talked about a bit in here as well since it’s all encompassing but there are definitely the same questions about the Frederic and Vaak picks too. Frederic was a reach, not of the Seny kind but still a reach. Vaak it was just kind of shocking to see them go D over Thomas.

Great post
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrainOfJ

JOKER 192

Blow it up
Sponsor
Jun 14, 2010
20,119
19,466
Montreal,Canada
Assuming Zboril pick was understandable, and people are generally happy with the DeBrusk pick, it’s pretty high praise that the big criticism of Sweeney’s drafting is one pick from 5 years ago. Kind of praising with faint damnation.

That's quite the assumption

I'll give you Zboril but Connor/Barzal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Debrusk/Seny. We know that now , we knew that then. Everyone but the half wits at the Bruins drafting table.
 

Dennis Bonvie

Registered User
Dec 29, 2007
29,795
18,355
Connecticut
Murray Oliver was arguably my fathers best friend and our neighbor as a kid - after he was traded to Toronto my folks would go out and spend a week each hockey season and they’d cone down for 2 weeks in the summer. This went on till my father passed but my mother would still go stay with them she was so tight with his wife Helen.

I kid you not everytime they would come back I’d get Leafs stuff - I had Leafs gloves, jerseys, pennants, year books - I also got to know all those Leafs. My guy was Dave Keon and he was a sweetheart- I can remember him as a kid sitting on my parents boat and thinking ‘man I’m hanging with Dave Keon’.

Oliver though was a thousand game player, all star, and top 10 scorer some years~ and after retiring eventually scout, assistant coach, coach and Lou Nanne right hand man with Minnesota; and also Pat Quinn in Vancouver. Plus it was cool he was Gordie Howe’s youngest son Murray God father who he was named after (I got to know Howe because of that as a kid but another time), Oliver for whatever loved talking hockey with me / he would visit whenever Minnesota, Toronto, or Vancouver were in and my mother would make lobster rolls he’d come by and we would sit there and discuss everything from drafting Tie Doni and the size of god neck to was Cam Neely the closest thing to Gordie Howe, to your cousin plays at SJP with Bobby Carpenter we are going to draft him what’s the inside your cousin says.

Long winded but one day we get on his North Stars taking Brian Lawton over Pat LaFontaine who went 3 to the Islanders. I mention such a game changer but he says Minnesota knows in hindsight yeh it was but at the time Lawton was the guy and internally there was never any debate. File under: Shit Happens.

ironically our discussion actually went to the impact on the Whalers not taking LaFontaine and taking Sylvan Turgeon a good sometimes very good player but not transcendent like LaFontaine

and since everything comes back to Barzal that is who he reminds me of - LaFontaine. Smallish in height but solid and electric and an Islanders

I build my foundation off Red Line these days then with that base I expand to other scouting sites and publications to build and identify outliers Woodlief may have.

My conclusion the day of the 2015 Draft was I had a major hard on for Matt Barzal. He was rated 9 In Red Line but supported on HF prospects thread and on all sorts of publications

having a hard on and drafting Barzal (the equivalent of getting laid as any guy will attest doesn’t always line up at the same time). Well as I watched the draft unfold at the Bruins Draft party in their Legends restaurant on their gazillion TVs and free alcohol my Bruinsgasm was getting closer and closer

all of a sudden he as in Matt Barzal is there

The Bruins are there - they aren’t only there, they are going to be there a while

I was so certain I wad going to get Barzal I told my daughter and others at the table this kid is very cute he’s going to sell a million jerseys what a bleeping home run

And then the unthinkable

Like Randolph Scott!! in Blazing Saddles, Dave Keon!!

Watched Barzal last night against the Flyers. They targeted him early on. Had little effect. He might have been even more dazzling after that.

Sorry that we didn't get him just for the aesthetic value.
 

MattFromFranklin

Fire Sweeney and Neely
Jun 19, 2012
4,156
3,114
Franklin, MA
Assuming Zboril pick was understandable, and people are generally happy with the DeBrusk pick, it’s pretty high praise that the big criticism of Sweeney’s drafting is one pick from 5 years ago. Kind of praising with faint damnation.
It's not one pick, it's two picks. DeBrusk and Senyshyn over Connor and Barzal. Zboril, although not one of the 3 BPA on every draft list (he was on some) when we were picking, was arguably the best D (the average ranking with him and Chabot was close), and that pick was understandable given the premature trade of Hamilton. Even though the Debrusk pick was a "hit", Connor, Barzal and Konecny were superior players to DeBrusk at the time of the draft, and are still superior players five years later. Sweeney didn't go PBA on DeBrusk and reached for him, as most people had him pegged as a late 1st. So, although he was a "hit," DeBrusk never should've been picked where he was. Therefore, you can make the case that he "blew" that pick as well by not going BPA. DeBrusk over Connor, was a disaster at the time and is a disaster now. Connor is a 30-40 goal scorer with better wheels and doesn't have the consistency issues DeBrusk has. Hell, he doubled DeBrusk's goal total this year. Looking at every reputable draft ranking list, the 2 forwards who were BPA were Connor and Barzal.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: BTO and Estlin

Blowfish

Count down ...
Jan 13, 2005
22,956
15,056
Southwestern Ontario
That's quite the assumption

I'll give you Zboril but Connor/Barzal >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> than Debrusk/Seny. We know that now , we knew that then. Everyone but the half wits at the Bruins drafting table.

It was puzzling to many of the broadcasters reporting that draft. There was some arrogance in making those picks. So close to setting up for a bright bright future. Grrrrrr
 
  • Like
Reactions: JOKER 192

easton117

Registered User
Nov 11, 2017
5,106
5,777
Yeah worth praising Sweeney for missing a franchise center which was there for the taking, which everyone knew and is now a major issue loving forward.

Also Connor would be much better than DeBrusk on Lw, real top line winger which again was given and secondary scoring a major issue for Bruins.

Sweeney set himself to retool the core and messed it up
That’s kind of the point too. I don’t like crapping on teams for their draft choices for the most part. It IS a crapshoot at times. Unless it’s the Browns but even they’ve started to figure it out. 2025 though will haunt them forever.

Boston has been been lucky their drafts haven’t hurt them as much as they could’ve the past decade as they’ve had the same core together for its duration. How many other teams can actually say that? Chicago?

Not to mention that group has played at a high level through that time as well. Which is also an anomaly. That time is ending now and we’re starting to see how few options they really have internally going forward
 

Aussie Bruin

Registered User
Sponsor
Aug 3, 2019
10,176
22,903
Victoria, Aus
I dunno, I think it’s relevant to this offseason in particular because the lack of a transition plan between cores is beginning to be exposed. The time has come where those draft picks are the most costly.

I think it’s fair to point to that draft as not only Sweeney’s biggest opportunity, but also his biggest swing and miss. Both to set the Bruins up for some crazy sustainable success and a perfect transition, but also in the current as the Bruins were exposed for a lack of depth for the 2nd time in 3 years(thankfully that 1 year saw Washington, Pittsburgh, and Tampa Bay all outed early, huh).

But even after that, it’s been talked about a bit in here as well since it’s all encompassing but there are definitely the same questions about the Frederic and Vaak picks too. Frederic was a reach, not of the Seny kind but still a reach. Vaak it was just kind of shocking to see them go D over Thomas.

It's interesting to consider the psychology behind Sweeney's selections and actions in and around that draft. He's brand new in the job, and he instantly gets very busy at the trade table, and then come draft time, he makes not 1 but 2 ambitious, speculative picks with the 3 first rounders he has to use.

A lot of guys would look to play it safe in their first draft, especially being so new to the GM role, and stick with making fairly conventional picks in line with the official rankings. But not Don. Clearly he came into the job with a strong plan and an eagerness to really seize the opportunity the Bruins had that year. It speaks to a high level of confidence in that plan and a desire to firmly put his stamp on the team and prove himself as a bold operator who would make the 'right' decisions not just the easy ones.

How things have changed. In the last couple of years Sweeney's gone pretty conservative, chipping away at trying to improve the team with smaller moves and alterations rather than taking some risks with more ambitious roster changes. You sense he got burned by his early failures and this has played a part in him being more cautious in recent times. Well now the rising tide of opinion is that the time for greater boldness has returned, and Sweeney's going to need to get creative again and rediscover his former flair. But he's got to get it right this time. Question is, does he have it in him?
 

arider1990

Registered User
Dec 9, 2018
2,750
3,118
That’s kind of the point too. I don’t like crapping on teams for their draft choices for the most part. It IS a crapshoot at times. Unless it’s the Browns but even they’ve started to figure it out. 2025 though will haunt them forever.

Boston has been been lucky their drafts haven’t hurt them as much as they could’ve the past decade as they’ve had the same core together for its duration. How many other teams can actually say that? Chicago?

Not to mention that group has played at a high level through that time as well. Which is also an anomaly. That time is ending now and we’re starting to see how few options they really have internally going forward
I think rather than the 2015 draft hurting them I think the fact that they haven't gotten anything from the drafts between 2007 to 2013 with the exception of Seguin and Hamilton hurts a lot more. This team could have used one more hit between that time frame and we wouldn't be talking about how much 2015 screwed them over.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad