The Pittsburgher Thread: Where Tomlin tries his hardest to lose

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Yeah right lol why he never make the pro bowl then? He was so overrated.

Like I said in another post..we were so good against the run that teams constantly threw the ball. He did a great job at shutting guys down. Especially compared to what else we had in the past and after.

Guys that get INTs make probowls

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Yeah right lol why he never make the pro bowl then? He was so overrated.

Ike was one of the best cover corners in the league in his prime. Just because he had hands of stone doesn't mean he was bad.
He would consistently shut down elite WR's.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Like I said in another post..we were so good against the run that teams constantly threw the ball. He did a great job at shutting guys down. Especially compared to what else we had in the past and after.

Guys that get INTs make probowls

Ike was one of the best cover corners in the league in his prime. Just because he had hands of stone doesn't mean he was bad.
He would consistently shut down elite WR's.

Haden >>> Ike. Woodson, Haden, Ike the last 30 years. Haden shutdown two WR that are in the Top 5 discussion for this decade on this sorry defense.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Haden >>> Ike. Woodson, Haden, Ike the last 30 years. Haden shutdown two WR that are in the Top 5 discussion for this decade on this sorry defense.

Haden and Woodson being better doesnt make Ike overrated

 

[SouthGeorge]

Haden and Woodson being better doesnt make Ike overrated

I just think some people overrate him. He put up decent stats on some great defenses. I don't think he's doing that on some of these shitty defenses we've had the last few years.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I just think some people overrate him. He put up decent stats on some great defenses. I don't think he's doing that on some of these ****ty defenses we've had the last few years.

I don't think you understand how coverage CB's are evaluated. There is more than stats when judging them. In fact, the less stats they have is often better because it means QB's avoid throwing in their direction.

I'd say Ike was about as good as Haden in his prime, perhaps a notch lower because he couldn't catch INT's. He was a stud that was underrated because he was overshadowed by all the other stars on that defense. The Steelers' version of Brian Dumoulin.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I just think some people overrate him. He put up decent stats on some great defenses. I don't think he's doing that on some of these ****ty defenses we've had the last few years.

Here is a good example of Ike Taylor's level of contribution. During the Steelers 5th Superbowl run in 2006 Taylor didn't allow a touchdown reception as he held Chad Johnson to four catches for 59 yards, Marvin Harrison to three receptions for 52 yards and Rod Smith to four grabs for just 61 yards. In Super Bowl XL, Taylor held Seahawks' No.1 receiver Darrell Jackson to zero catches after first quarter.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Here is a good example of Ike Taylor's level of contribution. During the Steelers 5th Superbowl run in 2006 Taylor didn't allow a touchdown reception as he held Chad Johnson to four catches for 59 yards, Marvin Harrison to three receptions for 52 yards and Rod Smith to four grabs for just 61 yards. In Super Bowl XL, Taylor held Seahawks' No.1 receiver Darrell Jackson to zero catches after first quarter.

Can you also look and see how much pressure was being applied by the defense? You really think on any other defense he wouldn't have been Burns status?

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Can you also look and see how much pressure was being applied by the defense? You really think on any other defense he wouldn't have been Burns status?

Why do you have such a need to think Ike was a bad player? Did he steal your GF or something? Are you even old enough to have seen him play in his prime?
Now.... if you were to try to convince me that he doesn't know how to read or can't count above 10, I would believe you.
But his football talent was undeniable. Shutdown cover corners are hard to find. And he was it.

 

[SouthGeorge]

Why do you have such a need to think Ike was a bad player? Did he steal your GF or something? Are you even old enough to have seen him play in his prime?
Now.... if you were to try to convince me that he doesn't know how to read or can't count above 10, I would believe you.
But his football talent was undeniable. Shutdown cover corners are hard to find. And he was it.

I was never a fan. It seemed like every year I was begging for him to be traded. Nothing is going to change my opinion on him.

 

[TimmyD]

If Ike Taylor could have caught a ball he would be held in a much higher light among certain groups I would assume. The guy had some of the worst hands I have ever seen, but in terms of coverage ability he was pretty good . Also Gerry Dulac was on Madden and was saying that the Steelers want to keep giving Burns a chance to work through stuff and their hope is that he will get to the level needed to be the second corner.... so shocker but the Steelers probably aren’t trading for a corner

 

[Pengwins]

Also Gerry Dulac was on Madden and was saying that the Steelers want to keep giving Burns a chance to work through stuff and their hope is that he will get to the level needed to be the second corner.... so shocker but the Steelers probably aren’t trading for a corner

Tomlin will teach him. He is a defensive mastermind and also used to play defensive back himself

 

[Night Shift]

Tomlin will teach him. He is a defensive mastermind and also used to play defensive back himself

How dare you be sarcastic about Tomlin..he's "like totally" the winningest coach "like everr" like totally

 

[Night Shift]

I mean, I can't stand Tomlin.. I feel like I want to say wake me up when Tomlin is fired but I'm afraid most of us will be old and walking in a kane before the steelers get a new coach. #jobsecuritynomatterwhat

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Haden >>> Ike. Woodson, Haden, Ike the last 30 years. Haden shutdown two WR that are in the Top 5 discussion for this decade on this sorry defense.

nvm

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Texans another team emerging from the AFC. Injuries kept preventing this from happening. So its the Pats, Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans for this season. Jags will bounce back but probably not this year.

This is what I meant when the Steelers were only focused on the Pats last year..now here comes other teams. Chiefs and Chargers look like legit contenders. And if Texans can stay healthy who knows. Ravens always have what it takes to win..theyre like us. Can never count them out when they make the playoffs.

Coming into the year I thought the NFC was stacked. Its the opposite now. Thats the NFL.

Our FO should pick up on this and add before the deadline. Its our last year with Bell and a unique situation. Id say go for it. But guessing they will save that cap space for the offseason. Im ok with that too...but its a must we have another great draft. 2017 type draft. Guys making an immediate impact(this past draft was more for the future).

If they dont add for this year they just better add a top FA for defense in the offseason and have a great draft .

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Texans losing Will Fuller for the year put a dent in their season. As I said in the above post..that team just cant stay healthy.

We have had some bad luck with injuries the last 4 years or so but the Texans win that award by a mile.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Texans another team emerging from the AFC. Injuries kept preventing this from happening. So its the Pats, Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans for this season. Jags will bounce back but probably not this year.

This is what I meant when the Steelers were only focused on the Pats last year..now here comes other teams. Chiefs and Chargers look like legit contenders. And if Texans can stay healthy who knows. Ravens always have what it takes to win..theyre like us. Can never count them out when they make the playoffs.

Coming into the year I thought the NFC was stacked. Its the opposite now. Thats the NFL.

Our FO should pick up on this and add before the deadline. Its our last year with Bell and a unique situation. Id say go for it. But guessing they will save that cap space for the offseason. Im ok with that too...but its a must we have another great draft. 2017 type draft. Guys making an immediate impact(this past draft was more for the future).

If they dont add for this year they just better add a top FA for defense in the offseason and have a great draft .

So basically, Hail to the Chiefs!

They are the only real roadblock to the Evil Empire on the AFC side. We know the Steelers will roll over as usual to them, and the rest of the field is unimpressive.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Texans another team emerging from the AFC. Injuries kept preventing this from happening. So its the Pats, Chiefs, Chargers, Steelers, Ravens, and Texans for this season. Jags will bounce back but probably not this year.

This is what I meant when the Steelers were only focused on the Pats last year..now here comes other teams. Chiefs and Chargers look like legit contenders. And if Texans can stay healthy who knows. Ravens always have what it takes to win..theyre like us. Can never count them out when they make the playoffs.

Coming into the year I thought the NFC was stacked. Its the opposite now. Thats the NFL.

Our FO should pick up on this and add before the deadline. Its our last year with Bell and a unique situation. Id say go for it. But guessing they will save that cap space for the offseason. Im ok with that too...but its a must we have another great draft. 2017 type draft. Guys making an immediate impact(this past draft was more for the future).

If they dont add for this year they just better add a top FA for defense in the offseason and have a great draft .

I think it's KC and NE are in a class of their own as of right now. If the Steelers' defense can maintain its recent improvement on D they will join them.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I think it's KC and NE are in a class of their own as of right now. If the Steelers' defense can maintain its recent improvement on D they will join them.

Starting to have more faith in the D each week. Losing Shazier was a huge blow and the longer this group plays together without him the better they will be. Bostic has been solid(especially for that price) , you just cant compare him to Shazier. One of a kind. Watt will continue to get better. Dupree is having a good year(you just have to ignore him being a first round pick) . Dline is solid with Hargrave emerging. Davis is much better at FS and Edmunds has been good(for a rook) at SS. Hilton in the slot ..great. Haden..great. Vince Williams(Fort should also see snaps..no need to wear down Vince late in games when Fort showed he can play) will be much better once Burnett is back and stays healthy. Allowing him to get back to stopping the run..rushing the QB. 8 sacks last year. Wont have to see him covering WRs. And speaking of Burnett...he could make a huge impact on this D. We already know about his versatility but one of the smarter players in the game...vocal leader which is what we were lacking causing so many miscommunications(Heyward- " one side of the defense was doing one thing and the other side doing another"). Having Burnett and Haden back there will help everyone. Those are the types of vets we need for the secondary to go with our younger guys, not Coty Sensabaugh.

Leaves one spot...Cb2. Burns may turn it around but I wouldnt take that chance. Lets say they do and we have this problem a month from now. Id consider moving Hilton to CB2 and let Burnett take over for Hilton.

Anyway, we are 6 games in..weve seen the D improve the last 2 games. But as the season goes on..we should start seeing a more cohesive unit. Burnett, Bostic, and Edmunds(even as a rookie) are all smart/vocal players. Keeping this D on the same page. That should allow talented players like Watt to do their thing and become that probowl caliber player. We are already much better against the run, and having Burnett out there will not only improve that area but the secondary. Sutton isnt ready yet. He can get back to developing the right way instead of being thrown into the fire.

Now get a CB and ill feel alot better about the D . Already went from 30th ranked to 21. I could see them moving up closer to 10th if they do that. Even with the offenses we will be facing these last 10 games.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

As for KC, great offense but one of the worst defenses in the league. They went 17 straight drives not forcing a punt until that Bengals game. Our offense isnt much worse than theirs(could be just as good as they get more settled in) yet we have a better defense. And as good as Mahomes has been...playoffs are a different story.

Patriots struggle on D as well...but do enough to allow teams to beat themselves. If our players can stop putting them on a pedestal...they can beat them.

The team I actually think is the biggest threat is the Chargers. Not only does Rivers finally have great WRs(never had that back then..just Gates) and Melvin Gordon at RB but they have a solid defense. And doing this without Joey Bosa. Once he comes back to pair back up with Ingram ...rookie Derwin James, etc...theyll be even better.

I wouldnt be shocked to see an all LA Superbowl this year. To me those are the most complete teams right now.

We have the potential to go all the way, we just need everything to fall into place and stay healthy. Burnett being out allowed Edmunds to gain valuable PT . Bell holding out allowed Conner to get to where he is. And we will have both of those guys back . So the depth is there now giving us way more to work with in the playbook on both sides of the ball. Vance McDonald being healthy now to go with James(and even Grimble) is having a huge impact. Juju is a 1a WR at this point to go with Brown, and we havent even seen James Washington do much yet. One of the best Oline's in the league. Playcalling much better. Sky is the limit, stay healthy and each week we should see improvement.

We could be looking at this team alot differently a month from now.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

As for KC, great offense but one of the worst defenses in the league. They went 17 straight drives not forcing a punt until that Bengals game. Our offense isnt much worse than theirs(could be just as good as they get more settled in) yet we have a better defense. And as good as Mahomes has been...playoffs are a different story.

Patriots struggle on D as well...but do enough to allow teams to beat themselves. If our players can stop putting them on a pedestal...they can beat them.

The team I actually think is the biggest threat is the Chargers. Not only does Rivers finally have great WRs(never had that back then..just Gates) and Melvin Gordon at RB but they have a solid defense. And doing this without Joey Bosa. Once he comes back to pair back up with Ingram ...rookie Derwin James, etc...theyll be even better.

I wouldnt be shocked to see an all LA Superbowl this year. To me those are the most complete teams right now.

We have the potential to go all the way, we just need everything to fall into place and stay healthy. Burnett being out allowed Edmunds to gain valuable PT . Bell holding out allowed Conner to get to where he is. And we will have both of those guys back . So the depth is there now giving us way more to work with in the playbook on both sides of the ball. Vance McDonald being healthy now to go with James(and even Grimble) is having a huge impact. Juju is a 1a WR at this point to go with Brown, and we havent even seen James Washington do much yet. One of the best Oline's in the league. Playcalling much better. Sky is the limit, stay healthy and each week we should see improvement.

We could be looking at this team alot differently a month from now.

Tomlin has to prove he can get past not only Hoodie, but be a competent playoff coach because all the evidence shows he’s a playoff failure. None of his defenders can dance around that reality anymore.

It’s well beyond time he gets actual playoff results, instead of using his forked tongue to fool the masses of naive fans who buy his BS.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Tomlin has to prove he can get past not only Hoodie, but be a competent playoff coach because all the evidence shows he’s a playoff failure. None of his defenders can dance around that reality anymore.

It’s well beyond time he gets actual playoff results, instead of using his forked tongue to fool the masses of naive fans who buy his BS.

I get that...but they also need to stop focusing on proving they can beat the hoodie. Thats my point...the past failures have continued to impact each game they play. Stop treating them like they cant be beat and we will get past them. So many teams have handed them games because of this. Putting them on a pedestal and beating themselves. Whether its going away from what they do best...nerves...as soon as a mistake is made they spiral out of control thinking they need to play a perfect game or else they will lose...and so on.

Same with the fans..its all about the Pats. Still amazes me that Tomlin actually said that BS during the interview with Dungy. And the offseason prior all the talk being about " how to beat the patriots". The hell? Thats not how you win. Fans can talk about that but the players...coaches? Publicly? Lol still amazed.

As soon as teams realize(Eagles did) they are just as beatable as any other contender...we wont have to deal with this anymore. Think about this for a second...if Carrol didnt get cocky trying to show up Bellichick by throwing the ball on 2nd down at the end and the Falcons didnt choke(if they played any other team that doesnt happen...they got nervous as hell in the 2nd half and couldnt even score 3 more points to prevent the Pats from coming back) the Pats last Superbowl win would be 2004. A year before the Steelers beat the Seahawks for our first win since 79. Thats 14 years without a title. Went 2-3 since then...could have easily been 0-5. Then what would people think of them? Buffalo Bills of the late 80s/early 90s?

Not saying they arent a great team..they are...just saying teams beat themselves at times because of the pedestal they are put on.

All people need to do is look at Brady's QB rating when pressured....hes the 4th worst Qb in the league at 64.5 . Hes never handled pressure well. Starts yelling at his WRs...his oline. Flips out. Bellichick has been great at protecting him...finding ways to have guys open right away so he doesnt face any pressure.

But those 3 losses in those Superbowls all had one thing in common. A great Dline. 4-3 scheme . Only rushing 4 , allowing the rest to cover . Giants with their stacked Dlines, even guys coming off the bench to keep everyone fresh..constantly pressuring Brady. He failed. Eagles with their Dline(Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, etc) constantly pressuring.

Blueprint has been available. Steelers have just been too stubborn thinking their way is the only way.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Tomlin has to prove he can get past not only Hoodie, but be a competent playoff coach because all the evidence shows he’s a playoff failure. None of his defenders can dance around that reality anymore.

It’s well beyond time he gets actual playoff results, instead of using his forked tongue to fool the masses of naive fans who buy his BS.

My rant about the Pats aside, I can address this now. Still say we need to win more due to talent. And our coordinators have to be great. Tomlin hasnt and will never win us games in the playoffs /Superbowl with his decisions. Its up to our coords and players. And hopefully Tomlin not messing something up during the game. He is a good motivator...players do love playing for him. But that doesnt win championships. So at this point(since I know he will never be fired) I just hope our coords can have our players at their best and we stay healthy. Not giving excuses for Tomlin but these last 4 years we did have season ending injuries toward the end of the season to our most important players. Which had an impact in those playoff games. That has to stop.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I get that...but they also need to stop focusing on proving they can beat the hoodie. Thats my point...the past failures have continued to impact each game they play. Stop treating them like they cant be beat and we will get past them. So many teams have handed them games because of this. Putting them on a pedestal and beating themselves. Whether its going away from what they do best...nerves...as soon as a mistake is made they spiral out of control thinking they need to play a perfect game or else they will lose...and so on.

Same with the fans..its all about the Pats. Still amazes me that Tomlin actually said that BS during the interview with Dungy. And the offseason prior all the talk being about " how to beat the patriots". The hell? Thats not how you win. Fans can talk about that but the players...coaches? Publicly? Lol still amazed.

As soon as teams realize(Eagles did) they are just as beatable as any other contender...we wont have to deal with this anymore. Think about this for a second...if Carrol didnt get cocky trying to show up Bellichick by throwing the ball on 2nd down at the end and the Falcons didnt choke(if they played any other team that doesnt happen...they got nervous as hell in the 2nd half and couldnt even score 3 more points to prevent the Pats from coming back) the Pats last Superbowl win would be 2004. A year before the Steelers beat the Seahawks for our first win since 79. Thats 14 years without a title. Went 2-3 since then...could have easily been 0-5. Then what would people think of them? Buffalo Bills of the late 80s/early 90s?

Not saying they arent a great team..they are...just saying teams beat themselves at times because of the pedestal they are put on.

All people need to do is look at Brady's QB rating when pressured....hes the 4th worst Qb in the league at 64.5 . Hes never handled pressure well. Starts yelling at his WRs...his oline. Flips out. Bellichick has been great at protecting him...finding ways to have guys open right away so he doesnt face any pressure.

But those 3 losses in those Superbowls all had one thing in common. A great Dline. 4-3 scheme . Only rushing 4 , allowing the rest to cover . Giants with their stacked Dlines, even guys coming off the bench to keep everyone fresh..constantly pressuring Brady. He failed. Eagles with their Dline(Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, etc) constantly pressuring.

Blueprint has been available. Steelers have just been too stubborn thinking their way is the only way.

Of course other teams have beaten the Hoodie and Pats come playoff time, some coaches multiple times. But Tomlin hasn’t shown us he’s capable of doing that, and nothing I see this year makes me suddenly believe he has somehow turned a corner and can put together the type of game plan necessary to beat Brady and Hoodie.

He couldn’t even devise a game plan to stop Bortles and that guy is getting benched now.

Anyone who thinks Tomlin can get it together and actually be a playoff style coach, let alone beat a guy who routinely makes him his bitch, is just hoping as a fan it could happen, with no real evidence to suggest history will suddenly change this year.