OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: Non-Descript Title

[NewAgeOutlaw]

My issue with Haley isn't his system or playbook so much as it is his situational playcalling and implementation of the system.

1.) The point was made earlier and I agree- where is the play action? We have 2 great backs who can open up the field vertically and we never take advantage of that fact.

2.) Semi-related to the last point is that they need to go downfield more often. They aren't explosive enough and going deep would help the backs as well as the screen and reverse plays. The Steelers allow defenses to play on a short field and it makes their job much easier.

3.) Like I said, situational playcalling by Haley is just sad, especially in the red zone. An nfl oc should know not to call jet sweeps and screens in the red zone yet we see it weekly and it makes me want to tear my hair out. This team is poor in the redzone and I think most of that is due to the playcalling.

4.) The bubble screens. Just way too many of them. It's the kind of play that can catch a defense off guard but not if you run it over and over again. Defenses know it is coming too as several times I've seen db's making a beeline for Steelers receivers as soon as the ball is snapped. The opposition has no reason to fear the Steelers going deep and it shows.

I really think Haley has some good ideas but he uses his playbook like a 12 year old playing Madden who just spams screens. It's so annoying and I believe Haley is really not maximizing the results considering the weapons he has at his disposal. It's no wonder Wallace ran screaming to Miami and the offense is better when Ben runs it no huddle. Haley is a horrendous playcaller with horrible situational awareness. The sooner we are rid of him the better.

 

[TNT87]

My issue with Haley isn't his system or playbook so much as it is his situational playcalling and implementation of the system.

1.) The point was made earlier and I agree- where is the play action? We have 2 great backs who can open up the field vertically and we never take advantage of that fact.

2.) Semi-related to the last point is that they need to go downfield more often. They aren't explosive enough and going deep would help the backs as well as the screen and reverse plays. The Steelers allow defenses to play on a short field and it makes their job much easier.

3.) Like I said, situational playcalling by Haley is just sad, especially in the red zone. An nfl oc should know not to call jet sweeps and screens in the red zone yet we see it weekly and it makes me want to tear my hair out. This team is poor in the redzone and I think most of that is due to the playcalling.

4.) The bubble screens. Just way too many of them. It's the kind of play that can catch a defense off guard but not if you run it over and over again. Defenses know it is coming too as several times I've seen db's making a beeline for Steelers receivers as soon as the ball is snapped. The opposition has no reason to fear the Steelers going deep and it shows.

I really think Haley has some good ideas but he uses his playbook like a 12 year old playing Madden who just spams screens. It's so annoying and I believe Haley is really not maximizing the results considering the weapons he has at his disposal. It's no wonder Wallace ran screaming to Miami and the offense is better when Ben runs it no huddle. Haley is a horrendous playcaller with horrible situational awareness. The sooner we are rid of him the better.

This is what frustrates me the most about him. Once they get in the red zone the drive stalls and they have to settle for a FG. They are averaging 404 yards per game which is fourth in the league yet they are 18th in total scoring.

 

[Captain Hook]

The Steelers have been a team that puts up yards and sucks in the red zone pretty much the whole Roethlisberger era and that spans 3 offensive coordinators and two head coaches. I'm not saying Ben is the only reason but he's the only constant over that decade or so of time. Pretty much everyone else around him has changed at some point and yet the red zone results are always pretty much the same.

 

[Al Smith]

The Steelers have been a team that puts up yards and sucks in the red zone pretty much the whole Roethlisberger era and that spans 3 offensive coordinators and two head coaches. I'm not saying Ben is the only reason but he's the only constant over that decade or so of time. Pretty much everyone else around him has changed at some point and yet the red zone results are always pretty much the same.

Maybe they should try to draft a big receiver in the second round . . . .

 

[JTG]

No doubt. Dan was certainly special and the transition away from him to anyone else is scary for the reason you mentioned. The same results with the next generation are certainly not guaranteed. I'm sure it's tough for Art II as well. He has almost impossible shoes to fill given his father's overwhelming success.

I agree that it's still way too early to tell how the Art II era will play out though. I think the Steelers were headed for their current mediocre stretch no matter which Rooney was running the team. It's just something they were due for.

Yeah, I don't really know if Art II is a great football administrator. I do know he was given a team that was still good, but the writing was on the wall. The drop was coming, and everyone knew it. The current situation isn't some unforeseeable thing, or something that comes as a surprise. If anything, those who prop up Dan and his accomplishments should also say that he allowed Colbert to re-sign guys to contracts that put them well past their used by date.

The Steelers have been a team that puts up yards and sucks in the red zone pretty much the whole Roethlisberger era and that spans 3 offensive coordinators and two head coaches. I'm not saying Ben is the only reason but he's the only constant over that decade or so of time. Pretty much everyone else around him has changed at some point and yet the red zone results are always pretty much the same.

Agreed. Those who put Arians on a pedestal now completely forget about his offenses inability to put up absolutely any points in the redzone. It was horrible. Arians didn't run a big game offense. It could be beat into submission.

The offense we have now, if it had a LT, LG and coordinator, has the offensive personnel that is completely conducive to winning any time, any where. We have the ariel weapons to stretch the field, with Wheaton and Brown both being able to rack up serious YAC, so we also have a short/intermediate passing game. Bell and Blount are probably the best RB tandem in the league. The left side of that offensive line is the bugaboo right now, and I'd look very seriously into trying Mike Adams in there at this point. Todd Haley has absolutely no idea what to do with this offense.

 

[djt153]

how do we determine what is bad playcalling from haley and what is bad playcalling from ben? ben said he was calling the redzone plays in the paper today, so maybe haley needs to call more plays?

 

[KIRK]

The Steelers have been a team that puts up yards and sucks in the red zone pretty much the whole Roethlisberger era and that spans 3 offensive coordinators and two head coaches. I'm not saying Ben is the only reason but he's the only constant over that decade or so of time. Pretty much everyone else around him has changed at some point and yet the red zone results are always pretty much the same.

True, but they used to score enough points to make up for the defense under the last one.

Too bad he retired.

 

[The Old Master]

how do we determine what is bad playcalling from haley and what is bad playcalling from ben? ben said he was calling the redzone plays in the paper today, so maybe haley needs to call more plays?

Sir! How dare you come here with common sense. Now be off with you and never be seen here again,

 

[KIRK]

how do we determine what is bad playcalling from haley and what is bad playcalling from ben? ben said he was calling the redzone plays in the paper today, so maybe haley needs to call more plays?

Who's playbook is Ben using?

 

[Shockmaster]

Who's playbook is Ben using?

Little Artie's?

 

[Captain Hook]

True, but they used to score enough points to make up for the defense under the last one.

Too bad he retired.

Arians last season here the Steelers defense led the NFL in fewest passing yards allowed, fewest total yards allowed and fewest points allowed (14.2 PPG). The offense didn't have to make up for nearly as much back then because the wheels hadn't completely fallen off that old defense just yet.

 

[Captain Hook]

Sounds like Tuitt is closing in on a bigger role.

Asked on Thursday what Tuitt, a second-round pick, needed to do to earn more playing time, LeBeau said: “I think if you ask us that question in a couple weeks, we’ll be answering it differently. He’s coming along real good. We’re looking to get him in there in some action.”

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/s...icle_15414ba1-0634-5a7d-bae1-d9451c0165d7.htm

I know some have been frustrated because it's taking some time to get Tuitt in there more but it was to be expected since D-Line coach John Mitchell was very adamant in the summer that he wouldn't rush the kid.

“I’m going to play him as much as I can. We’re not going to rush him,” said the Steelers longtime defensive line coach of the Notre Dame product. “I don’t care if he’s a first- or second-round draft choice. When he’s ready to play and we can play him in certain situations I’m going to put him in the ballgame. The worst thing you want to happen to a good player who is going to be good down the road, he loses confidence because he goes in the game when he’s not ready to play.

“We’re not going to rush this kid in there. When he’s ready to play and we feel he can help this team, that’s when we’re going to play him.”

http://www.steelersdepot.com/2014/0...-says-hes-going-rush-rookie-de-stephon-tuitt/

 

[djt153]

Who's playbook is Ben using?

haley's, which incidentally has plenty of running plays in it based on the panthers game, none of which ben saw fit to utilize in the red zone by his own admission in the trib.

 

[KIRK]

haley's, which incidentally has plenty of running plays in it based on the panthers game, none of which ben saw fit to utilize in the red zone by his own admission in the trib.

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014/10/10/friday-insider-consol-ice-mystery-solved/

Is Ben Roethlisberger really calling his own plays in the no-huddle?

Nope, at least not as much as he was at season’s outset. Most are now being radioed in from the sideline and Todd Haley. And if my word isn’t good enough on that, watch Ben closely this Sunday in Cleveland as he’s covering up one side of his helmet to ensure he hears the signal.

Certainly sheds some light on this little exchange the other day.

This is truly the story that will never go away.

 

[KIRK]

Arians last season here the Steelers defense led the NFL in fewest passing yards allowed, fewest total yards allowed and fewest points allowed (14.2 PPG). The offense didn't have to make up for nearly as much back then because the wheels hadn't completely fallen off that old defense just yet.

Stats notwithstanding, they fell off when it mattered and had been doing so for about two years.

 

[Shockmaster]

Everyone was *****ing about the 11 pass attempts and 0 run attempts in the redzone in Jacksonville, but what I'm more upset about is the fact that out of those 11 passes, how many were actually thrown into the end zone? The TD pass to Palmer was one, and there might have been one more attempt to AB. But otherwise the Steelers were trying to go horizontal in the end zone.

This is just such a chicken-****, scared, timid offense.

 

[Captain Hook]

Stats notwithstanding, they fell off when it mattered and had been doing so for about two years.

It's true that they started choking late in games defensively in that Super Bowl against the Cardinals and it carried over to the 2009-10 season. The offense made up for it in the Super Bowl with that game winning drive against the Cards but the offense didn't make up for the defense falling apart late in the 2009-10 regular season. They went 9-7 that year.

The defense actually rebounded and was very solid in 2010-11 and 2011-12. Go back and look at the records and you won't find a ton of blown leads or the offense having to bail them out much. Even the few games that they blew it late in those two seasons were games that were mostly defensive struggles where Arians offense would only score in the teens and sometimes even less than that.

The Arians era ended after the 2011-12 season in that Denver playoff game, which to me was when the wheels really started coming off that old defense. Arians actually picked a good time to "retire" in that regard.

 

[JTG]

I'm not sure why McCullers doesn't see any snaps. You figure there would be some sort of package we could use him in that his size and strength could be utilized.

Blessing today is Haden and Kruger are both pretty banged up.

 

[Captain Hook]

I'm not sure why McCullers doesn't see any snaps. You figure there would be some sort of package we could use him in that his size and strength could be utilized.

Blessing today is Haden and Kruger are both pretty banged up.

Phil Taylor is out today too.

LeBeau made a point to mention McCullers in a recent interview when talking about Tuitt. He said McCullers is another guy that you could see out there any given Sunday. I take that as he's coming along pretty well.

Something has to give sooner than later. I know D-Line coach John Mitchell doesn't like to rush kids but Cam Thomas has been pretty brutal. Not that it's surprising. Thomas lost his job in San Diego last year for a reason.

 

[JTG]

With how this defensive line has played, I almost think letting McCullers and Tuitt work out their kinks and develop while playing is better than what we're seeing now. Will there be mistakes? Yes. But those two, and the size, strength, and young energy they bring to that line is more of what we're missing right now. This run defense is brutal to watch, and a lot of the issues with sack totals stem directly to us completely lacking a defensive line. Cam Heyward is the one redeemable player on that unit, and it's not like offenses aren't even running at him right now.

 

[Captain Hook]

The run D has been improved the past 3 games but it was against two bottom feeders in the Jags and Bucs (one of which we lost to ) and even the Panthers are struggling to run the ball this year for some reason. Not the stiffest competition in other words.

The D-Line will get a stiff test today. Cleveland's O-Line and RB's ran the Steelers over in the first game. I think Cleveland averaged about 6 yards a carry or so in that game. We shall see if things are different today. I hate to be negative but I have a bad feeling about this game. Just seems like a game this young Browns team has really been waiting for.

 

[djt153]

http://dkonpittsburghsports.com/2014/10/10/friday-insider-consol-ice-mystery-solved/

Is Ben Roethlisberger really calling his own plays in the no-huddle?

Nope, at least not as much as he was at season’s outset. Most are now being radioed in from the sideline and Todd Haley. And if my word isn’t good enough on that, watch Ben closely this Sunday in Cleveland as he’s covering up one side of his helmet to ensure he hears the signal.

Certainly sheds some light on this little exchange the other day.

This is truly the story that will never go away.

again, ben himself said he called the plays in the red zone - where the lack of running was in my mind most egregious - while dk refers to the no huddle.

 

[Shockmaster]

again, ben himself said he called the plays in the red zone - where the lack of running was in my mind most egregious - while dk refers to the no huddle.

Considering most of those pass plays went horizontal - like many of the pass plays Haley calls - instead of going into the end zone, I think it's a fair bet to say even if it isn't Haley directly calling the plays, they're using his playbook.

 

[djt153]

the complaints about too many short passes in lieu of runs just feels like a vendetta against haley, a guy i dont even like. ben's ypa is roughly in line with his career numbers, bell now catches a lot of balls out of the backfield for good reason, brown is dangerous in space, the bubble screens set up better downfield opportunities later in the game.

 

[Shockmaster]

the complaints about too many short passes in lieu of runs just feels like a vendetta against haley, a guy i dont even like. ben's ypa is roughly in line with his career numbers, bell now catches a lot of balls out of the backfield for good reason, brown is dangerous in space, the bubble screens set up better downfield opportunities later in the game.

Here's another stat: since Haley was hired the Steelers are 19-18.