GDT: The Pittsburgher Thread: 'Murican Handball, Go Steelers go! *Mod Warning Post #383*

[Zirakzigil]

Final warning to all. There is ZERO tolerance for personal attacks. Next time it happens, you'll be punted out of this thread.

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[Zirakzigil]

K you got me, you wanna know why? Gruden doesn't have his own bingo board.

2012-2016 from Steel city insider

Tomlin's record vs losing teams since 2012
2012: 3-4
2013: 3-4
2014: 3-4
2015: 2-3
2016: 1-1
That is a combined record against losing teams over the last 5 seasons of 12-16.

He has had Carr since he came back to coaching his only super bowl was against his former team taking over for dungy. He had Gannon in Oakland

Good find. Yeah I mean definitely a bad stretch. Here’s something for a few years ago so not up to date:

Crunching the Numbers: Tomlin vs. inferior opponents, Ben out west, and second-down play calling

But those numbers really aren’t bad at all. Again I can’t imagine that number is significantly worse than other coaches.

As I stated earlier Oakland was a mess when taking over the 2nd time. His first stint with Oakland went well considering being under crazy AL and the only time they were relevant in the past 20 years. But ya Gannon was I think his best QB in his head coaching career. IIRC that offense was entertaining to watch

Right in the middle of that stretch (in 2015) is around the time I made my mind up on Tomlin.

Killer instinct by the Rams.
16-14 with 7 mins left. Tomlin would go run, run, pass punt and hand it over to the D to win.
Alas, Stafford goes 5 for 5 and they increase the lead.

There’s a reason why they paid 2 1st for him. Ben Will not even pass it forward on 4th down

I think @Honour Over Glory will appreciate this one

Sounds like Bridgewater is gonna play, but if we run hot and play Drew Lock/Geno Smith in back to back weeks, that would be pretty fun.

I keep looking at the next 5 and think they could go on a run. Denver o line isn’t great.,They have not beaten anyone with a pulse. Seattle defense is bad o line is bad bye @cleveland they have looked bad for 3-1, Chicago Detroit

 

[DanielPlainview]

Gruden made Tomlin look like an amateur a few weeks ago lol That should tell you what sort of quality we have at HC. Gruden isn’t exactly a genius

 

[JTG]

If the season ended today, the Steelers would pick 9th. ESPN has a Football Power Index - essentially it gives percentages of how well a team is projected to do. It currently has the Steelers sitting at 17% chance of getting a top 5 pick, 1.1% change of earning the #1 pick.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Gruden made Tomlin look like an amateur a few weeks ago lol That should tell you what sort of quality we have at HC. Gruden isn’t exactly a genius

How did he make him look like an amateur?

 

[Night Shift]

How did he make him look like an amateur?

Anyone defending clown at this point is very young and new to football or is brain dead.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

Anyone defending clown at this point is very young and new to football or is brain dead.

Or understands it’s a QB league and even the bests coaches suck without a good one. We saw him go 8-8 with Duck and Mason most coaches have losing records with back up QBs. Every back up under Tomlin has a winning record

 

[Pengwins]

Impeach Tomlin

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

I would like yo know who is a good coach right now for comparisons sake.

id think most would say Belichick. Who has been the gold standard for two decades.

63-76 without Brady in his career.

i think people give coach's far to much credit/blame. People said Reid was overrated. Now hes great. Flavors of the month come and go.

 

[Andy99]

bigdaddyk88 said: ↑

I keep looking at the next 5 and think they could go on a run. Denver o line isn’t great.,They have not beaten anyone with a pulse. Seattle defense is bad o line is bad bye @cleveland they have looked bad for 3-1, Chicago Detroit

lol….man, that’s delusional…the Steelers haven’t beaten anyone either…first games of the season are always outliers in the NFL…they’re showing they’re their usual dysfunctional selves…​

 

[bigdaddyk88]

If we had played giants Jets and Jacksonville like Denver we would be 3-0. They got smoked by Bmore. We have played 2 play off teams and those 2 teams will most likely be in the conference championship game and beat one of them.

 

[Night Shift]

I would like yo know who is a good coach right now for comparisons sake.

id think most would say Belichick. Who has been the gold standard for two decades.

63-76 without Brady in his career.

i think people give coach's far to much credit/blame. People said Reid was overrated. Now hes great. Flavors of the month come and go.

I had this same debate with you regarding the same point you bring about Reid and Bill last year so I'm not going to rehash it. Instead I'm just going to laugh at the excuse brigade: "coaching doesn't matter!" WHO WE GONNA GET THAT BETTERZ!!!!!

 

[T1K]

I had this same debate with you regarding the same point you bring about Reid and Bill last year so I'm not going to rehash it. Instead I'm just going to laugh at the excuse brigade: "coaching doesn't matter!" WHO WE GONNA GET THAT BETTERZ!!!!!

“Gruden had Brad Johnson as QB. I think that was part of the down fall there (back then) was having a Brad at his age, who did well but then after the SB falling off a cliff. And Chris Simms was too young carry it forward.

I'm not sleeping on Gruden now that he finally has a QB”

 

[TooManyHumans]

i think people give coach's far to much credit/blame. .

100% this. It is way more about the players than it is about the coaches.

 

[ChaosAgent]

I had this same debate with you regarding the same point you bring about Reid and Bill last year so I'm not going to rehash it. Instead I'm just going to laugh at the excuse brigade: "coaching doesn't matter!" WHO WE GONNA GET THAT BETTERZ!!!!!

When Ramzi posts a rational argument and you respond like this, it makes you look like a fool/child.

Even if I would fire Tomlin as well.

 

[Night Shift]

When Ramzi posts a rational argument and you respond like this, it makes you look like a fool/child.

Even if I would fire Tomlin as well.

Its not rational without considering the other side of the story. Look at the messes Reid and Belicheck took over. Cleveland (91) and Philly(98). So yeah, easy to point the losing records.

Reid turned his around quicker than Bill. Still goes without saying that before they fell apart in 95 with the news of moving to Baltimore, he had the old Browns in the right direction and a very good team.

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Its not rational without considering the other side of the story. Look at the messes Reid and Belicheck took over. Cleveland (91) and Philly(98). So yeah, easy to point the losing records.

Reid turned his around quicker than Bill. Still goes without saying that before they fell apart in 95 with the news of moving to Baltimore, he had the old Browns in the right direction and a very good team.

every coach has another side to the story.

thats my point.

you have a good team and a good QB you will win and if you dont you will lose.

When Tomlin has talent and a good QB he wins when he doesnt he loses.

there are two types of coaches.

competent enough to largely stay out of the way.

and

Completely incompetent

Everything else is circumstance.

 

[Night Shift]

every coach has another side to the story.

thats my point.

you have a good team and a good QB you will win and if you dont you will lose.

When Tomlin has talent and a good QB he wins when he doesnt he loses.

there are two types of coaches.

competent enough to largely stay out of the way.

and

Completely incompetent

Everything else is circumstance.

Tomlin has never been hired to turn a team around like the other two. Which is why the former are legit coaches because they've proven they can. I would absolutely be shocked and floored if Tomlin turned say..the Lions around. But I don't think he has the quality to turn anybody around.

 

[DanielPlainview]

Coaches can become better over time.

The list of good coaches in the league is always quite small. Right now, I'd say there's 7 (not in order):

1. Obviously, Belichick is a better coach with NE than he was with the Browns. Probably would've made the Super Bowl with Drew Bledsoe. Went 11-5 with Matt Cassel at QB. Managed to take an aging scrap heap team QB'd by Cam Newton to 7-9 last year against one of the league's toughest schedules, an underrated coaching job, IMO. His resume is what it is. First ballot HOF HC.
2. Andy Reid is a better coach today than he was 20, or even 10, years ago in Philly. He's a good coach now with the Chiefs. An all-time great? Probably not but he has a few years left.
3. Pete Carroll - His teams are always competitive even when they have significant holes in the roster. But he's prone to making some really bad in-game decisions that have held him back from more championships.
4. John Harbaugh - The fact he's been able to win a SB with Joe Flacco and make Lamar Jackson look like a somewhat competent QB has earned some respect (even if he's just as much of a crybaby as his brother).
5. Bruce Arians - Took some pretty mediocre AZ teams to the post-season. Winning now with Brady, obviously.
6. Ron Rivera - Another coach who can make a subpar roster decently competitive. He's doing a good job turning WFT around after a good run in Carolina that went on a little too long.
7. Sean McDermott - He managed to completely overhaul Josh Allen to make him what he is now, and had early success in a rebuild in a franchise that hasn't much of anything in 25 years. It's his 5th season now, it's time to take the next step and get to the SB as one of the conference favorites.
(8.) I'm tempted to throw Matt Rhule in here given the job he's done turning Darnold around and managing to be competitive with what is not a good roster, but it's only his second season.

Overrated:
1. Mike McCarthy - Obviously carried by Rodgers to his one SB then completely choked away the next 8 years.
2. Mike Tomlin - Not much to show for anything the past decade despite having probably the most talent of any coach in the league. Has lived on having a HOF QB and a HOF GM.
3. Sean Payton - Carried by Drew Brees. Has failed a lot in the post-season. Similar track record as Tomlin and McCarthy.
4. Mike Zimmer - I really don't get the praise some people give him. He's very inconsistent.

 

[ImporterExporter]

Coaches can become better over time.

The list of good coaches in the league is always quite small. Right now, I'd say there's 7 (not in order):

1. Obviously, Belichick is a better coach with NE than he was with the Browns. Probably would've made the Super Bowl with Drew Bledsoe. Went 11-5 with Matt Cassel at QB. Managed to take an aging scrap heap team QB'd by Cam Newton to 7-9 last year against one of the league's toughest schedules, an underrated coaching job, IMO. His resume is what it is. First ballot HOF HC.
2. Andy Reid is a better coach today than he was 20, or even 10, years ago in Philly. He's a good coach now with the Chiefs. An all-time great? Probably not but he has a few years left.
3. Pete Carroll - His teams are always competitive even when they have significant holes in the roster. But he's prone to making some really bad in-game decisions that have held him back from more championships.
4. John Harbaugh - The fact he's been able to win a SB with Joe Flacco and make Lamar Jackson look like a somewhat competent QB has earned some respect (even if he's just as much of a crybaby as his brother).
5. Bruce Arians - Took some pretty mediocre AZ teams to the post-season. Winning now with Brady, obviously.
6. Ron Rivera - Another coach who can make a subpar roster decently competitive. He's doing a good job turning WFT around after a good run in Carolina that went on a little too long.
7. Sean McDermott - He managed to completely overhaul Josh Allen to make him what he is now, and had early success in a rebuild in a franchise that hasn't much of anything in 25 years. It's his 5th season now, it's time to take the next step and get to the SB as one of the conference favorites.
(8.) I'm tempted to throw Matt Rhule in here given the job he's done turning Darnold around and managing to be competitive with what is not a good roster, but it's only his second season.

Overrated:
1. Mike McCarthy - Obviously carried by Rodgers to his one SB then completely choked away the next 8 years.
2. Mike Tomlin - Not much to show for anything the past decade despite having probably the most talent of any coach in the league. Has lived on having a HOF QB and a HOF GM.
3. Sean Payton - Carried by Drew Brees. Has failed a lot in the post-season. Similar track record as Tomlin and McCarthy.
4. Mike Zimmer - I really don't get the praise some people give him. He's very inconsistent.

Agree with almost all of this.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Its not rational without considering the other side of the story. Look at the messes Reid and Belicheck took over. Cleveland (91) and Philly(98). So yeah, easy to point the losing records.

Reid turned his around quicker than Bill. Still goes without saying that before they fell apart in 95 with the news of moving to Baltimore, he had the old Browns in the right direction and a very good team.

Okay. That was an actual response with real counterarguments. The previous one was the equivalent of a calm person (Ramzi) arguing with a hysteric. Now at least you are both calm.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

100% this. It is way more about the players than it is about the coaches.

Coaching matters and always will.

Just in the last few games, we have literally just seen how poor coaching costs you games with Tomlin’s cowardly decisions.

I won’t even get into how a lack of preparation and discipline has killed this team in the playoffs.

The Tomlin defenders are just like the Bylsma apologists who refused to face reality.

 

[Night Shift]

Okay. That was an actual response with real counterarguments. The previous one was the equivalent of a calm person (Ramzi) arguing with a hysteric. Now at least you are both calm.

Hysterical? I was just jibba jabbing

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

Tomlin has never been hired to turn a team around like the other two. Which is why the former are legit coaches because they've proven they can. I would absolutely be shocked and floored if Tomlin turned say..the Lions around. But I don't think he has the quality to turn anybody around.

coaches dont turn teams around, talent does.

Coaches either run teams into the ground or they dont.

those are really the only two options

 

[WheresRamziAbid]

The steelers this year are a perfect example. If the had Roethlisberger from 5 years ago this team is 3-1 instead of 1-3 even with all the injuries.

Belichick who most consider the best coach ever is below .500 without Tom Brady over a pretty good sample.

Andy Reid offensive mastermind is a borderline contender when he has good QBs and is a champ and yearly favorite when he has a great one.

its really that simple