The PIT/WSH series is a reminder of why key players get credit for team success

[HandshakeLine]

The Capitals are on paper an almost flawless team from top to bottom, including coaching. This is why the play the games.

If they can't beat this Pens team then maybe this core just wasn't meant to win a Stanley Cup. I can't see any way that they could get better next season save dropping Alzner (and maybe Orpik) and upgrading at 3C.

Washington has historically iced some really good clubs, from the 90s on, with some great players on them (I would have loved to have had Ciccarelli or Iafrate on those early 90s Pens squads). But where they've fallen flat has fairly consistently been in the coaching department.

And to be fair, that was also the knock on the Pens for the better part of the last decade- great teams on paper, subpar coaching from Therrien and Bylsma and Johnston. If I were Brian MacLellan, I'd think hard about the core, sure, but I'd think even harder about the bench, from the assistants on up.

The other thing that isn't really talked about in these discussions again, is the role of the non-Head Coaches on the bench. The Pens have been able to take cast off blueliners like Cole, Schultz, Niskannen, and Daley and rework their games to an amazing degree because they're working with Jacques Martin and Sergei Gonchar. We all complained when Gonch and Martin were brought onto the coaching staff (nepotism, bloated staff, etc.), but it's really worked wonders.

 

[pokey10]

Letang is a number one but he's not what I consider a high end, elite number one like the other names I mentioned.

Again though, Pittsburgh is a unique case of having one of the best center duos of all time.



Offensive genius in prime, but not the type of elite #1 defencemen I'm referring to. The other guys you want on the ice in every single situation.



Washington has never had a Duncan Keith during these years.

Carlson is close though.

 

[Human]

Carlson is close though.

Not sure if serious...

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Ovechkin's playoff stats are better than Toews but you're right, Toews should get credit for winning Cups while Ovechkin should get knocked for his lack of cups.

I mean to a degree this is correct. Ovie's been on a good team for a long time it's not like he's surrounded by stiffs Ovie and Backstrom deserve all the heat they take for never getting out of the second round, that's pretty pathetic and yes Toews deserves credit for being the first line center who won three Stanley Cups. The dumbest thing about hf(and yes there are many in the running, I'm looking at you trade boards) is that no one seems to get this, and others still laugh at the notion.

 

[TimbitsHockey877*]

If anything it just shows an elite franchise center >>> elite franchise winger. Center is just a way more important position than lw or rw.

 

[Avelanche]

They are about to win 4-1 without crosby, isn't that proof these player v player in the playoffs discussion are stupid? Obv Pittsburgh can still win the cup without Crosby.

 

[AvsGuy]

As a neutral fan, this is absolutely the time to be celebrating a guy like Jonathan Toews. Those are real accomplishments that should be valued more than glamorous regular season numbers.

I'm not sure why a thread celebrating Jonathan Toews and his accomplishments is really necessary when his team got swept a few short weeks ago

 

[daver]

They are about to win 4-1 without crosby, isn't that proof these player v player in the playoffs discussion are stupid? Obv Pittsburgh can still win the cup without Crosby.

They kind of got outshot heavily last game. Pretty far from obvious.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

They are about to win 4-1 without crosby, isn't that proof these player v player in the playoffs discussion are stupid? Obv Pittsburgh can still win the cup without Crosby.

Yes its obvious Pittsburgh can win the cup without Crosby, I mean some people might say "well that's never happened" others might even say "he was absolutely monstrous in their cup final run, and both cup wins even capturing the Conn Smythe in the second" but what do they know? They're about to close out a chocking Caps team after winning the first two games of the series(with Crosby), I would say indisputably that ONE WIN(thats right people they have won one game since this) proves that the Penguins can win a cup without Crosby. Good point.

 

[TorstenFrings]

I'm not sure why a thread celebrating Jonathan Toews and his accomplishments is really necessary when his team got swept a few short weeks ago

Because we usually wait until another "Jonathan Toews and his accomplishments" thread is really necessary.

 

[daver]

It really isn't hard to separate individual contributions towards a team's success from said team success.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

They are about to win 4-1 without crosby, isn't that proof these player v player in the playoffs discussion are stupid? Obv Pittsburgh can still win the cup without Crosby.

They're 1-1 without Crosby. You make it sound like they won all three games this series with him out. He was the best player for the Pens in the two (full) games he played.

The Pens have a looooooong way to go before the bolded is "obvious".

 

[Riptide]

If anything it just shows an elite franchise center >>> elite franchise winger. Center is just a way more important position than lw or rw.

Sure it is. But when that "elite franchise winger" has 1 goal in 4 games, how elite are they? Especially when they're not creating chances or getting much in the way of shots?

 

[Fixxer]

So if pens close out series without Crosby/Letang it proves that superstars deserve to get credit for team success?

Wouldn't that say the opposite and prove that it's a team game and not on anyone individual?

:s

exactly!

 

[The Red Line]

Extremely thin veil for a Toews thread, but I'll bite...

First off, Toews got bounced in the first round, so what does that say?

Second, if the Pens are without Crosby and still beat the caps, doesn't that go completely against your argument and show just how much of a team accomplishment winning is?

 

[Riptide]

Second, if the Pens are without Crosby and still beat the caps, doesn't that go completely against your argument and show just how much of a team accomplishment winning is?

Considering that he was by far the best player on the ice in the first two games, and that Pittsburgh is 1-1 without him... I'm not really sure how one can come to that conclusion.

 

[hobochangba]

Not every player has to be good defensively. Ovechkin is supposed to score. If he does that, he should be left the hell alone. Kessel sucks at defense too but it doesn't matter. He scores and that's what he's supposed to do. The former gets lambasted because his team hasn't stepped up when he has. Kessel is the golden boy because he stepped up and his team around him did too. In Toronto, he did similar stuff. He was let down by those around him though, and got **** for it despite it not being his fault. You see how perceptions change based on the support around the player?

I get the 'scorer's score thing. I don't agree with the captain being a one-way player pretty much all the time and frequently waving his stick as the play goes the other way. Kessel too can drive me crazy with his lack of defense (though he sure is trying harder here in Pittsburgh than in Toronto). I'm not saying you need to a shutdown guy but at least show some interest in playing 'D' and also without the puck. Especially in the playoffs.