The Physicality Myth

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by stuart5035, Apr 14, 2018.

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  1. stuart5035

    stuart5035 Registered User

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    Tired of reading about how our fragile team will be run out of the building, annoyed even more with myself for my own timid fear of that happenning.

    I added up the weights of all 18 Bruin skaters, grand total came to 3616 pounds/18=200.8 pounds. For our Leafs that total came to 3547 pounds/18= 197 pounds. Take away the distorting data of giant Chara and these teams are virtually identical. More revealing even was the fact that 7 Bruins came in at 186 pounds or less (Krejci, Krug, Marchand, Pastrnak, Debrusk, Grzelcyk, Heinen) while Toronto only had 3 (Brown, Kapanen, Marner).

    Did the same with height: Bruins totalled 1312 inches; Leafs 1315 inches-again allow for Chara and we are taller on average.

    So I am even more pissed off with that tepid game 1 performance after seeing these numbers. I expect nothing else than our Leafs to come out with fire in their eyes, steely determination, knowing there is no tomorrow on Saturday (losing game 2 pretty much guarantees that). We should run them over with our speed and skill and depth. Pay the price! I want to see you, Tyler Bozak-launch yourself recklessly along the boards at a yellow and black sweater, I want to see you Nylander do the same, I don’t need to see Rielly, Gardner and Dermott jumping out of the way of hits in our zone, hit back. Use your height and size Matthews to obliterate someone, same goes for you Hainsey with your size. Connor Brown, hit something!

    I expect nothing less, and I expect game 1 to be nothing but a blip chalked up to opening night jitters in an enemy barn as we skate them into the ground with a masterful display of skill and grit.

    Please shut up all these so called experts and analysts predicting our demise, really tired of it, this is our time!
     
  2. FieldOfDreams

    FieldOfDreams Registered User

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    There's more to physicality than height and weight..
     
  3. 91LeafsTavares91

    91LeafsTavares91 Registered User

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    It's not so much the weight or height of the players it's more so how they play.

    Toronto does not play a heavy game by any stretch of the imagination. They're largely a rush team who plays high event hockey. They they don't excel on the cycle and struggle defending it. They're not built for the trenches so to speak.
     
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  4. Polaris1010

    Polaris1010 Registered User

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    Those height weight stats can be bogus.

    Marner is basically Doug Gilmour size. He used to play sometimes at 150 pounds or less. Hard to believe.

    That play were Kadri got suspended, Chara could have ended Marner's career in the corner, but Chara is not a dirty player. Hit gave his a solid hit. Wingels came in and accidentally on purpose hit a prone Marner in the face.

    Kadri had enough. It is bad enough he gets run at, but now Wingels picking on a kid. **** it. He did what he thought he had to do. Take a run. The arm did not go up on the face smash on Marner, you have to go in hard.
     
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  5. Moncherry

    Moncherry Registered User

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    They didn't lose the game because of physicality. Easy narrative to create while ignoring what actually cost them the game, such as special teams.

    That's bull****. Matthews and Kadri lines cycle the puck well all the time.
     
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  6. Belieber

    Belieber Registered User

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    Would be nice to wear down the opposition a little bit, make them rush some passes and force turnovers, although speed does that as well. As long as they battle on the boards and go to the net I'm happy.
     
  7. Tak7

    Tak7 Registered User

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    You're tired of hearing about physicality, because the Leafs are a pretty soft team.

    Doesnt matter how big/tall you are. They get overrun & overwhelmed by others teams physicality.

    Its how Washington beat us in the playoffs last year (and in the outdoor game last year), and its what Boston did to their blueline in game 1.
     
  8. LeafingTheWay

    LeafingTheWay Registered User

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    Agreed. But the Bruins have 4 lines that can play the cycle-game really well. Our D, in my opinion, are strong transition D (They can move the puck out of the zone well, but it's getting the puck that is the issue) so they don't do too well against heavy cycle teams. I would have preferred Tampa as a matchup instead to be honest.

    We can win this series if we stick to our strengths of moving the puck fast, transition well, etc. First game we were so slow, that's what killed us. Plus special teams kept killing any momentum they were building.
     
  9. Joedoggy

    Joedoggy Registered User

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    A team coached by A man who never played the game at a high level, is soft.. has small man syndrome and coaches a euro sale game is not going to have a heavy team (Detroit also)
    Players that can play heavy are sat in Leaf land.
    Babcock is all about Babcock pure and simple.. Lets see you line change your way out of this series without playing your heavy player you are sitting cause he offended your EGO..

    Small man syndrome clouds Badcocks mind once again, but he loves his Babsocks..lol

    It will get worst also..with players leaving...More softcock euro hockey/more pain.

    This team is built on one concept "How fast can you run away from physicality"..the Babcock way!
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
  10. Joedoggy

    Joedoggy Registered User

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    You have no idea what Physicality entails ..not your fault some just do not have the backbone nor intestinal fortitude to put themselves on the line for their mates...coaching is suppose to have players like this..... As for the Kadri hit..that was not a show of physicality that was dumb.
    Babcock has the leagues best hitter healthy scratched because he stood up for a mate vs softcock....this action is called small man syndrome.
     
  11. HamiltonNHL

    HamiltonNHL Win Now in full effect

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    Hi Don Cherry / 1960s hockey
     
  12. SprDaVE

    SprDaVE Registered User

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    It's lazy analysis. If we lose, it's always because of some intangible and not because we simply weren't good enough in terms of puck possession, execution, goaltending and special teams.

    I have no idea how anyone can say that the Leafs were intimidated and outmatched physically. They went toe to toe with them and it really wasn't the reason why they lost.
     
  13. Pookie

    Pookie It was a pleasure doing business with you

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    You think Kadri had time to check to see if one or both of the referees had their arm raised to call a penalty? Wow.

    If he did, then he had time not to turn his hip to drive a defenseless player's head into the boards... apparently on purpose in a pre-meditated fashion based on your theory.

    I've been calling it reactionary but of course suspension worthy.

    Your theory? Wow.

    This is approaching Canucks-Bertuzzi lunacy.
     
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  14. luvdahattymatty

    luvdahattymatty Registered User

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    Great topic. As a big man myself who played jr and minor pro i can tell you height and weight is not what makes a player fight for pucks. Although it helps you win the battles if you are bigger. What counts is your heart and want for the puck. This unfortunately can't be taught or coached. It is either in you or it isn't. I have seen lots of Americans and Euros and some Canadians over the years who were far more skilled but just did not want to do what it took to win puck battles. I remember a game in midget in Toronto at Westwood before draft where we played a tournament team from SW USA. They had guys from all over and many top end prospects for the NHL. The pregame warmup was intimidating as they were so fast and so skilled in their passes and shot. We came to bench for pregame talk with coach and he said not not even worry a little about their skill. Play as a 5 man group and play tight (in other words move together so to keep a small ice game). When you cross red line dump it around the glass so you can get the short end on puck retrieval. First guy hit the Dman second guy hit the support guy and third guy get the puck. Play shelter game and force them to come at you for the puck and keep passes short as you fight to the net so we do not lose possession. Half way through the first the Americans had given up we were up 4 to nothing and just pounding them. They started taking stick penalties to get puck and things got worse. They really did not want the puck bad enough to do what it took to get it. We knew it quickly and they figured it out. So my point is a fast skilled team which is bigger height and weight wise does not always beat a determined tough group who would risk loosing a tooth to get a puck.

    That said my hope is Leafs just had a real bad game and were not prepared to do what it takes to win puck battle fights. Hopefully they will come out faster and more determined.

    To people who say guys like Chara are dinosaurs i say watch game 1 over. You can see lots of guys do not even want to try to mess with him for pucks. He does not have to lay the lumber every time. He will pick and choose his spots. He choose not to knock Kadri into oblivion. He could easily have wrecked Kadri badly in that spot. and the Leafs would have been able to do nothing about it. However he saw the elbow on marner and every hockey guy in his right mind knew what kadri was going to do. chara knew. it is hockey payback. that gave me hope and i think team felt it too. it makes everybody play a little bigger than they are. The suits in the nhl (the legal beagles) bettman who never played are highly political correct. They gave him 3. In the old days he play next game. Everyone knows he did what he had to do. Anyways it is a different time now and everyone has to get up and condemn kadri. So i will too. Bad boy kadri now don't do that again. Go Leafs GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Albert Iafrate

    Albert Iafrate Registered User

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    All you have to do is look at the VGK vs. Kings game last night.

    Hits: Kings - 80
    Knights - 56

    Shots: Kings - 30
    Knights - 56

    Score: Knights 2 - Kings 1

    This is how we beat the Bruins. **** "matching their physical play". Shoot the lights out, let them wear themselves out throwing around their giant bodies. Its 2018 not 1974.
     
  16. Mess

    Mess Global Moderator

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    "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog".
    - Mark Twain

    This saying means that determination is often more important than size, strength, or ability, and fierceness is not necessarily a matter of physical size, but rather mental/psychological attitude.
     
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  17. Trawna Phan

    Trawna Phan Registered User Sponsor

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    I looked up the size difference as well, and other than Backes and Charra they’re not a big team. They play fast and aggressive., though.

    Although they are a little grittier , the reason they are favourites is not entirely grit , it’s because Bergeron and Marchand are the best players on the ice and the Leafs, I don’t think, have anyone to counter those two. If the season told us anything, in order for the Leafs to win games they’ll rely on Freddie to bail them out. I doubt that all of a sudden they’ll start playing sound D and eliminate the high percentage scoring chances.
     
  18. Duke16

    Duke16 Registered User

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    Good thing about the Leafs is that we have 2 prospects coming with size that play a heavy game in Grundstrom and Korshkov. Engvall has size aswell. Those 3, plus Kadri, Hyman and Brown will be on the same team in 2 years time in which case half of our forwards will be hard-nosed players with skill to boot.
     
  19. Drytoast

    Drytoast Registered User

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    Those players are not the problem nor are they the solution.

    We go if Marner, Nylander and Matthews go. (you could also put JVR on that list to a degree)

    If those three can't find a way to compete against big physical teams, we are doomed. I have faith that they can. It will just take some learning curves.

    They are all still kids still. I'm not worried.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  20. Trawna Phan

    Trawna Phan Registered User Sponsor

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    I have confidence that Marner will be OK. I’m a little worried about the other 2, tbh.
     
  21. Drytoast

    Drytoast Registered User

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    If those other 2 can't figure out then they are not the pieces to build around.

    Matthews is a stud. He WILL figure this out. Nylander? He's the iffy of the 3 for me, but I also have faith in his compete ability.

    Understand this gets easier as they get older and become men.
     
  22. egd27

    egd27 Boating Season ending

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    I've read this from you many many times.

    What do you mean by it exactly, because at 6'1", it's not likely something that Babcock would suffer from? (at least in its normal context)

    Excellent post.

    It is my hope that they can find a couple of guys that have a combination of skill, toughness and determination to fill the open spots next next year.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
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  23. Intellivisionhockey

    Intellivisionhockey Registered User

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    I'd say the Bruins are able to intimidate us pretty easily. I'm not sure (only because I haven't seen it yet) that a lot of our players are willing to step up to ensure that they impose their will over others.
    Do Nylander, Marleau,Bozak, Plekanecs, Matthews, Marner, etc. have that confidence and hunger to do anything to win? I hope so, but I fear not yet - I attribute a lot of it to youth, but most of our vets wouldn't worry anyone.
    Babcock can hope that sheer talent might succeed in the end, so do I, but Boston has that top end talent as well and is a far better coached and prepared team to my eyes.
    Komarov used to be one of those guys who could best others through intimidation and resolve... we need him to get back to that.
    Go Leafs Go!
     
  24. frog

    frog Registered User

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    It was annoying how literally everytime leafs would start to play well, boston would destroy a leaf player in the corner, the crowd would cheer and all of a sudden puck was in our zone for the next 5 minutes. Hitting is a skill and Leafs dont have an answer to momentum shifts from hits because aside from kadri and polak no one else is that good at it. You cant just teach brown or nylander to hit in one day just like you cant teach polak or hyman to toe-drag
     
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  25. Boutette

    Boutette Registered User

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    I see the problem is the Leafs arriving late to the game as they have done more times than I care to remember this year. Yeah, a lot of the time they can do this, and then come on in the second half of the first period and pull away in the second. But that only works against mediocre teams. The Bruins showed up immediately and drove the game for the first second. The leafs had to play catch up to the Bruins energy. You can't base your modus operendi on speed and not show up from the opening face off against the best teams in the league in the playoffs. Hopefully that lesson is learned.

    As for the rest, well, the other oft mentioned point is the leafs need veterans and veteran experience to succeed in the playoffs. JvR is repeatedly singled out as being needed for this team to succeed, regardless of the price, and many people want him resigned. Where was he? Where was the veteran experience of Bozak, Marleau, Komarov, Pleckanec, Hainsey, Polak that is supposed to make a difference, provide leadership and the intangibles that win playoff hockey? If these seasoned veterans aren't going to show up from minute one like the Bruins did, then what is the point of paying a premium for them?
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018

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