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Well, technically, spending tens of millions on coaching staff and front office still isn't the right way.
The Out of Town Thread CVIII - Free Agency Edition
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Well, technically, spending tens of millions on coaching staff and front office still isn't the right way.
It is one heck of a group of people they have put together, but I can't help think that having that many guys/egos in the group, and is gonna get cloudy real quick...
Tanking doesn't take this many minds...
McGuires Corndog
Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
It is one heck of a group of people they have put together, but I can't help think that having that many guys/egos in the group, and is gonna get cloudy real quick...
Tanking doesn't take this many minds...
I have to agreed. "Too many chiefs, not enough Indians" as one would say.
Quite frankly, I'm not a fan of the Lamorello/Lemaire hirings. These are guys that in the last decade have had very mediocre results in the new NHL.
OldCraig71
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It's the NHL old boys club all over again. Rinse repeat recycle, the NHL does it better than any other league. Just because Shanny was a great hockey player does not mean that he will bring the Leafs out of the quicksand that they have been in for what seems like forever.'
The only hire that makes sense to me is Hunter, the guy knows junior hockey and is a talented hockey mind and would have been my choice for GM with Dubas as his assistant, build through the draft for 3 years and then go after your Babcock type but not before.
In Toronto its a weird phenomenon, it's all about hype in till January hits and the media turns on the franchise and calls for the heads of everyone associated with the team.
Babcock will not lie down and lose games and players(mostly fringe nhl talent) will play for him in an attempt to keep an NHL job thus making it difficult for them to secure anything other than a 15-20th pick overall and defeating the purpose of a rebuild.
Bergevin has basically surrounded himself in the same way but the difference here is our level of "core" talent, we are on the verge but the leafs are in the toilet. I can't wait for mid season to hear the Toronto media and their cries for firings in the Leaf organization. The leafs are a complete joke.
Bergevin has basically surrounded himself in the same way but the difference here is our level of "core" talent, we are on the verge but the leafs are in the toilet. I can't wait for mid season to hear the Toronto media and their cries for firings in the Leaf organization. The leafs are a complete joke.
I agree with all you said there. I'd just add that Timmins is another huge factor. He's the major reason why we have a core and didn't really tank to get it. 2005 we were just a bad team before the lock-out and got to pick at #5 and 2012 was mostly an outlier. Habs never tanked as it's not really an option. And yet, we have a more than decent core and some prospects coming up the pipeline.
If the Leafs are not planning to tank, what they need is incredible drafting for the next 3-4 years. None of the hires adress that issue.
19VJ17
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- Mar 9, 2011
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Tanking doesn't take this many minds...
Love your quote
But apparently you do need that many minds in Tor to tank
I can't find fault for Lou and Lamaire going there, biggest paid day of there whole career.
With Babcock there I can see them playing good hockey, maybe even make the playoffs. Some what the same that happened in Col after Roy was hired. Players being pumped for the season and playing over there heads and eventual falling back to earth the next season.
Bergevin has basically surrounded himself in the same way but the difference here is our level of "core" talent, we are on the verge but the leafs are in the toilet. I can't wait for mid season to hear the Toronto media and their cries for firings in the Leaf organization. The leafs are a complete joke.
true, but MB came into a different situation. When he arrived, the team had Gallagher (the final cut in camp the year prior with Martin), Plekanec, Markov, Subban, Pacioretty, Price, Eller, Beaulieu, Desharnais, Emelin and a top 3 pick (you can add Gorges and Gionta who were also very solid players when MB inherited the club). That's much different than what Shanahan & co have walked into. Yeah, Kessel is a top end talent (now traded), but after that, there isn't much of a solid core. Their D isn't great, especially with Phaneuf at the helm, and their goatending is above-average. They have some nice pieces in JVR, Kadri and Reilly, but nothing to carry a team forward.
If the leafs are in the toilet, it's because Shanahan & co inherited a toilet. Meanwhile, MB had mostly fat to trim in Gomez, Bourque and Kaberle (some might include Gorges, Diaz and Gionta here..I wouldn't) . He's done a very good job at surrounding the core with Kassian, Petry, Weise, Semin, DLR and Galchenyuk (though I'd hesitate to credit the GM for a draft pick), but he walked into a very very good core that didn't need that much adjusting.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
If I was in charge of the Habs, Jacques Lemaire would have been the first guy I would have hired, not Scott Malenby and Martin Lapointe. Dude is a freakin brainiac.
In fact among the dream team for the Habs to assemble people talked about before Bergevin was hired, Lemaire was the sort of guy mentioned that would be a "must" hire.
In fact among the dream team for the Habs to assemble people talked about before Bergevin was hired, Lemaire was the sort of guy mentioned that would be a "must" hire.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
But here's the thing though, he is not just a great coach, Lemaire is a brilliant hockey guy in all aspects. And when he left the Habs front office to join the Devils after the 93 cup, Serge Savard was never the same as far as making level-head decisions. I wish Bergevin would have hired Lemaire right out of the bat as assistant GM. But he prefered hiring his buddies.
I actually think the Leafs hiring him just to help the coaching staff is a mistake.
Cole Caulifield
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Lemaire would have been a great hire... back when Gainey had the choice between him and Martin...
Lemaire actually thought he had the job when Gainey did a 360 and went with Martin.
What a ****ing dummy.
But after that, I thought Lemaire was 100% retired. I guess TO just threw a ton of money at him or he got bored in retirement.
Sterling Archer
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From what I understand, Lemaire asked for an insane amount of money for the time and Gainey said he'd get back to him. I guess he did by hiring Martin. Hardly a dummy move. We did quite well under Martin for awhile.
hockeyfan2k11
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Combine the cups on the Leafs management and coaching staff with the cups on Montreal's.
3 well respected hockey men who have actually won...and won a lot...uh, yea, I think that's the right way.
Furthermore, how Lemaire is not with this organization is beyond me....but Habs like to do things their way...been that way the last 20+ years.
hockeyfan2k11
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Bergy is not going to hire a guy that could take his job...look at who MT hired....none of those guys are a threat to his job.
McGuires Corndog
Pierre's favorite MONSTER performer
Do Lamorello or Lemaire still have it though? Nothing in the last 10 years suggests these guys are elite at their jobs anymore, at least in my opinion.
Hard to knock the hiring of Babcock, Dumas or Hunter.
Team_Spirit
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OnTheRun
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1) They pay as much as we do CURRENTLY for PAP.
2) If PAP is semi-decent, they can flip him for a pick at the TDL.
hockeyfan2k11
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There are certain things that you never lose, though. I'd rather have someone who at least had something than someone who never had it in the first place.
It will be interesting to see how they all work together.
OldCraig71
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I agree with you but if you inherit a toilet why do you all of a sudden try and turn it into a throne?
Cole Caulifield
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Lemaire is infinitely superior to Martin.
And if Lemaire asked for an "insane" amount of money, what was it.. at most 0,5-1M more than Martin ? I doubt Gainey was that worried about it since he threw 5M at Gionta, 6M at Cammy and acquired Gomez at 7M the same summer.
Not like we were operating under a tight budget. I guess it's important to have an uber tight leash on costs that aren't controlled by the cap though ...
But worse than that..
We had Boucher waiting in the AHL. Lemaire was rumored to want to do 1-2 years at most. He would have been a perfect stopgap while Boucher got ready with the dogs. Instead we had Martin who we couldn't rightly fire after one year. Interestingly enough, Martin signed for 4 years 6M...
It was a moronic decision by Gainey.. in a long line of moronic decisions he made that same summer.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
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I know, right? A Google search of toilet+throne suggests it's a very "natural" tendency. 
Cole Caulifield
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http://www.cnet.com/news/iron-throne-toilet-lets-you-rule-the-bathroom-realm/
I totally agree that Bergevin arrived in a very decent situation. Lots of good pieces already in place and good drafting. But we can't deny that he identified what the team needed most (leadership, player dev. and an actual management team) and he promptly made the necessary adjustements. The only real area of weakness in terms of management is the coaches, both in MTL and in the AHL.
What Shanahan did so far is a little strange. What that franchise needed is a complete teardown and only then, a rebuild. So far, it looks like he's trying to do a little bit of both at the same time. Only way it works is if they find 2-3 core players with later picks.
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