The Out of Town Thread CVI - Congratulations Hawks!

[Hope Of Glory]

Embarassing fashion? With two losses on a missed offside call in OT and a buzzer beater?

Keep this up, champ.

The last game of the series was really embarassing. Guys just didn't show up. I'd agree that we did play well against the Bolts in general, though.

 

[HabsDieHard*]

The last game of the series was really embarassing. Guys just didn't show up. I'd agree that we did play well against the Bolts in general, though.

I'd argue that the Habs played a predictable and stale style over the course of 6 games against the Lightning and made Ben Bishop make a lot of routine and easy saves over the course of the series.

They also got their only worthwhile offensive output in Bishops one and only b2b appearances in the whole year.

 

[Hoople]

I'd argue that the Habs played a predictable and stale style over the course of 6 games against the Lightning and made Ben Bishop make a lot of routine and easy saves over the course of the series.

They also got their only worthwhile offensive output in Bishops one and only b2b appearances in the whole year.

Bishop gave up 13 goals against the Black Hawks in 6 games. The same number that he gave up against the Habs.

Was he making routine and easy saves against the Black Hawks or was it just against the Habs? Or would admitting that blow up your story?

Now that you are thinking about your story a little bit and how it compares to the reality that the Habs and Black Hawks scored the same amount of goals against the Bolts (one team eliminated - one team wins a Cup), will you expand your thinking to understand why that happened?

Will you venture into the realm of admitting that the Top Pairing for the Black Hawks played much better defense than the Top Pairing for the Habs? And that might be a reason why the Black Hawks did what the Habs could not do?

 

[M.C.G. 31]

The last game of the series was really embarassing. Guys just didn't show up. I'd agree that we did play well against the Bolts in general, though.

Like we didn't show up in game 6 vs. Rangers last year. Not the first time they didn't show up in a game where their backs were up against the wall.

Bishop gave up 13 goals against the Black Hawks in 6 games. The same number that he gave up against the Habs.

Was he making routine and easy saves against the Black Hawks or was it just against the Habs? Or would admitting that blow up your story?

Now that you are thinking about your story a little bit and how it compares to the reality that the Habs and Black Hawks scored the same amount of goals against the Bolts (one team eliminated - one team wins a Cup), will you expand your thinking to understand why that happened?

Will you venture into the realm of admitting that the Top Pairing for the Black Hawks played much better defense than the Top Pairing for the Habs? And that might be a reason why the Black Hawks did what the Habs could not do?

You're telling me a team whose top pairing is Keith-Seabrook was better than a team whose top pairing was Markov-Subban? No way.

The difference is the Hawks have talent up front that also made Bishop move around. We did that for one game in game four where we exploded with six goals or whatever it was.

 

[The Nightman]

Bishop gave up 13 goals against the Black Hawks in 6 games. The same number that he gave up against the Habs.

Was he making routine and easy saves against the Black Hawks or was it just against the Habs? Or would admitting that blow up your story?

Now that you are thinking about your story a little bit and how it compares to the reality that the Habs and Black Hawks scored the same amount of goals against the Bolts (one team eliminated - one team wins a Cup), will you expand your thinking to understand why that happened?

Will you venture into the realm of admitting that the Top Pairing for the Black Hawks played much better defense than the Top Pairing for the Habs? And that might be a reason why the Black Hawks did what the Habs could not do?

Markov didn't play up to the standard we needed him too. So yes, Keith and Seabrook were better, was that the reason why we lost? lol no.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Burke could've done so much more with the Leafs. I have no idea how it all went so awry.

In other news: J.Toews or Sidney Crosby - I used to be a die-hard Crosby guy but now... I dunno. Pick 'em.

Burke should've rebuilt. If he'd gone that route he'd have been successful. Instead he dealt away picks and it killed him.

Crosby > Toews btw.

I saw the games where we outplayed the Bolts in the playoffs. Some say it did not happen. Other posters said it did happen.

Corsi is irrelevant then? So which is it?

I read the threads all season long when the Habs were winning but were being "outplayed" and the coaching staff was excoriated. Outplaying teams was more important than winning.

Corsi is relevant then? So which is it?

As someone said, making the playoffs and then losing is not a victory, moral or otherwise. A Stanley Cup is the goal.

However, it is mildly amusing to see people arguing both sides in an effort to win an internet moral victory. I guess we will see the winds shift again when we are once again reminded that winning is not that great when we are being outplayed.

Top Corsi teams win the cup almost every year. Yup, I'd say it's relevant.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Crosby > Toews btw.

I know it's true... but Toews has THREE cups. It's nearly unheard of in the modern NHL. One more and they're gonna start comparing them, especially Keith Kane and Toews, to our legends.

And those arguments will have merit.

 

[Hoople]

Like we didn't show up in game 6 vs. Rangers last year. Not the first time they didn't show up in a game where their backs were up against the wall.



You're telling me a team whose top pairing is Keith-Seabrook was better than a team whose top pairing was Markov-Subban? No way.

The difference is the Hawks have talent up front that also made Bishop move around. We did that for one game in game four where we exploded with six goals or whatever it was.

You tell me.

We scored the same number of goals as the Black Hawks did against the Bolts in 6 games. We gave up 17 goals to the Bolts while the Black Hawks allowed 10 goals.

The prevailing sentiment is that the Habs got lit up on the Penalty Kill.

Here's a little perspective regarding the difference between the Habs and the Black Hawks during the playoffs.

TEAM PPGA

Keith - 6 goals, 23 games
Seabrook - 6 goals, 23 games
Hjalmarsson - 6 goals, 23 games
Oduya - 7 goals, 23 games

Subban - 6 goals, 12 games
Markov - 6 goals, 12 games
Emelin - 6 goals, 12 games
Gilbert - 5 goals, 12 games

Or is Crawford that much better than Price?

 

[Hoople]

Top Corsi teams win the cup almost every year. Yup, I'd say it's relevant.

But.........................Corsi for a series in the playoffs is irrelevant.

Right?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

But.........................Corsi for a series in the playoffs is irrelevant.

Right?

What's relevant is how a team plays overall over long periods of time. If you play well during the year at 5 on 5, it's indicative of how well you'll do in the playoffs. YES you always want to have the puck and you always want to spend more time in your opponent's end of the ice. That's why its a good idea to do it all year long rather than doing a 180 in the playoffs... you're more likely to be successful.

As for us vs the Lightning, I don't know what our Corsi was against them. What I do know though is that it's not surprising that either they or the Hawks went to the finals. Both teams were top possession clubs and went to the finals - 'cause that's usually how it works.

What I don't understand is why our team wants to fight against this. Why we wouldn't want to take a system that takes the play to our opponents. We did it with great success in 2013 and I have no idea why we moved away from it. If we'd stuck with that system and stuck with playing better players (ie keeping the EGG line together) then we might've actually developed our players better than we have. Instead we keep plodding along hoping our goalie saves us...

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I know it's true... but Toews has THREE cups. It's nearly unheard of in the modern NHL. One more and they're gonna start comparing them, especially Keith Kane and Toews, to our legends.

And those arguments will have merit.

Far better supporting cast and team style of play.

But Toews is damn impressive. I agree he's totally scary.

 

[The Nightman]

You tell me.

We scored the same number of goals as the Black Hawks did against the Bolts in 6 games. We gave up 17 goals to the Bolts while the Black Hawks allowed 10 goals.

The prevailing sentiment is that the Habs got lit up on the Penalty Kill.

Here's a little perspective regarding the difference between the Habs and the Black Hawks during the playoffs.

TEAM PPGA

Keith - 6 goals, 23 games
Seabrook - 6 goals, 23 games
Hjalmarsson - 6 goals, 23 games
Oduya - 7 goals, 23 games

Subban - 6 goals, 12 games
Markov - 6 goals, 12 games
Emelin - 6 goals, 12 games
Gilbert - 5 goals, 12 games

Or is Crawford that much better than Price?

The Blackhawks as a whole, are a much better team than the habs both offensively and defensively, is anyone even arguing that? Their top 4>Our Top 4, you're right. Do you think the Bolts might have respected Kane, Toews, Hossa, Sharp, Teravainen and Saad more than Pacioretty, Gallagher, Plekanec, Desharnais, Weise and Galchenyuk? They had the same game plan for both teams you think?

 

[Ezpz]

I'm not so sure the Hawks will have a better top 4 next year. Depends on who they replace Oduya with.

 

[DAChampion]

You guys are embarassing with your moral victories.

Habs lost to 2015 Lightning because of luck.
Habs lost to 2014 Rangers because Price was injured.
Habs lost to 2013 Senators because of luck.

You can't blame luck every year. Particularly when the losses are never in the finals and never in game 7. These series were not close at all.

The Habs are losing early and losing often. If they want to win a cup they will need better special teams and more size.

 

[Whitesnake]

You guys are embarassing with your moral victories.

Habs lost to 2015 Lightning because of luck.
Habs lost to 2014 Rangers because Price was injured.
Habs lost to 2013 Senators because of luck.

You can't blame luck every year. Particularly when the losses are never in the finals and never in game 7. These series were not close at all.

The Habs are losing early and losing often. If they want to win a cup they will need better special teams and more size.

Game set and freakin match. Add pure skills and speed, as in skating speed and execution speed.

But enough with those moral victories loser speech. Everything we hated about the Bruins and Leafs, we are doing it ourselves? Are we actually the ones who kept talking about Boston Wheel of excuses? How can people use that too?

 

[DAChampion]

As far as i am concerned the Blackhawks are one of the most impressive dynasties in NHL history.

Three Stanley Cups in five years. Almost four since one of the other years was a game 7 conference final. They are doing this in a salary cap era, in a thirty team league, and coming out of the stronger conference. They have outlasted the San Jose Sharks, the Boston Bruins, teams which have come and gone. Los Angeles Kings may be gone too. While those teams go into a rebuild, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane are mid-prime, and Teuvo Terevainnen is coming in.

Note that Chicago is not winning out of luck, which may be what some fans here dream for the Habs. They are winning due to sheer comprehensive dominance over their opponents.

 

[Whitesnake]

As far as i am concerned the Blackhawks are one of the most impressive dynasties in NHL history.

Three Stanley Cups in five years. Almost four since one of the other years was a game 7 conference final. They are doing this in a salary cap era, in a thirty team league, and coming out of the stronger conference. They have outlasted the San Jose Sharks, the Boston Bruins, teams which have come and gone. Los Angeles Kings may be gone too. While those teams go into a rebuild, Jonathan Toews and Patrick Kane are mid-prime, and Teuvo Terevainnen is coming in.

Note that Chicago is not winning out of luck, which may be what some fans here dream for the Habs. They are winning due to sheer comprehensive dominance over their opponents.

Enough with your wisdom. What's happening to you? So damn right about the complexity to do it in not only the toughest conference of the league but in the toughest division as well.

 

[M.C.G. 31]

Speed and skill > size nowadays.

 

[OldCraig71]

Speed and skill > size nowadays.

We will get bigger then, it's settled!!

 

[optimus2861]

Game set and freakin match. Add pure skills and speed, as in skating speed and execution speed.

And solid coaching that devises strategies and tactics to maximize the output of the talent at their disposal. Chicago typically spends their games outplaying, outskating, outshooting, and outchancing their opponents. They do not sit back and expect their goalie to bail them out. They have a 1-goal lead? They push to make it 2. Then 3 if they feel they have to.

They certainly can play rock-solid defensive hockey, but it's not their primary strategy.

The Kings were/are built very much the same way. It's no coincidence the Cup has gone to Chicago & LA 5 of the last 6 years.

But, ya know, we're a grinding team! Accept it! Do it! Gah!

But enough with those moral victories loser speech. Everything we hated about the Bruins and Leafs, we are doing it ourselves? Are we actually the ones who kept talking about Boston Wheel of excuses? How can people use that too?

Yeah, I don't get it. Not one bit. With Price, Subban, Pacioretty, and the support cast we have, it's CUP OR BUST. And if our coach & GM don't see it that way, fire their ***** out the next available cannon and get people in here who will understand that. The clock on those three guys' prime years (and contract years!) is ticking. We haven't the time to screw around with mediocre or incompetent management.

 

[Lshap]

The last game of the series was really embarassing. Guys just didn't show up. I'd agree that we did play well against the Bolts in general, though.

Like we didn't show up in game 6 vs. Rangers last year. Not the first time they didn't show up in a game where their backs were up against the wall.

A lot of energy spent agonizing over those two playoff-ending games. Yeah, they were both lousy ways to end our playoff runs. But Tampa was shutout 2-0 a couple of days ago against Chicago. Rangers were shutout 2-0 against Tampa. Final games aren't all pretty, but they don't necessarily define the entire series. It's not like Montreal was swept.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

You guys are embarassing with your moral victories.

Habs lost to 2015 Lightning because of luck.
Habs lost to 2014 Rangers because Price was injured.
Habs lost to 2013 Senators because of luck.

You can't blame luck every year. Particularly when the losses are never in the finals and never in game 7. These series were not close at all.

The Habs are losing early and losing often. If they want to win a cup they will need better special teams and more size.

I don't disagree that we have to get better. And bottom line is that Price WAS injured and we lost... no excuses. It is what it is. We definitely need some pieces and we need to change the way we play.

That doesn't mean we aren't close though.

 

[Bloumeister]

Any given year, it's one of my favorite parts of a Cup run

 

[Ezpz]

I think it's actually the exact opposite as it used to be. The Habs don't need to be bigger. They need talented players that actually have talent. Not pretenders like DD and Weise in the top 6.

 

[Monctonscout]

Outplaying a team without being able to convert the chances you create by outplaying them means NOTHING.

The part that people here fail to grasp, is that with today's goalies, the difference between scoring and either hitting the post or the goalie making a big save is very small. This is not the 1980's where a 5'8" goalie only covers 50% of the net with tiny equipment.

It's not about moral victories, it's about having an accurate read on if you can beat team X or you can't. In today's NHL, half the series or more can go either way, a series can change on a bad bounce or lucky bounce.