Blue Jays Discussion: The other trade deadline passeth. You know, the complicated one. (Mod warning post #1)

[Discoverer]

not one of them had a line like Vladdy has this year.

And? They were all clearly elite hitters in AAA and obviously ready for the majors and held down specifically for the sole purpose of manipulating service time.

But yeah, I guess Jimenez only has a 175 wRC+ in AAA, Torres was only at 145 last year (for a SS), Bryant was just 164, and Acuna 162. I'm sure those guys will be totally understanding when negotiating with their teams because they all understand they just weren't quite ready yet.

 

[canucksfan]

Acuna had 243 PA last year in AAA while having a wRC+ of 162 and despite an unreal Spring Training the Braves still sent him down due to service time.

Vlad only has 75 PA at AAA.

 

[zeke]

And? They were all clearly elite hitters in AAA and obviously ready for the majors and held down specifically for the sole purpose of manipulating service time.

But yeah, I guess Jimenez only has a 175 wRC+ in AAA, Torres was only at 145 last year (for a SS), Bryant was just 164, and Acuna 162. I'm sure those guys will be totally understanding when negotiating with their teams because they all understand they just weren't quite ready yet.

not only were their top line numbers not as good (even ignoring their age, which only widens the gap), but all of them also had strikeout concerns underlying those numbers, which vladdy does not.

 

[NeverGoingToWin]

Chris Russo is the only bad thing on the MLB Network. I hope he retires soon.

 

[Discoverer]

not only were their top line numbers not as good (even ignoring their age, which only widens the gap), but all of them also had strikeout concerns underlying those numbers, which vladdy does not.

Ah ok, good. Bryant probably won't file a grievance against the Cubs or anything. I'm sure he gets it.

And that 12.4% K-rate for Jimenez is really getting up there... hopefully he can cut it down and earn a promotion.

As for the age thing, being younger is not an argument in favour of calling someone up ahead of player a couple years older.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

And? They were all clearly elite hitters in AAA and obviously ready for the majors and held down specifically for the sole purpose of manipulating service time.

But yeah, I guess Jimenez only has a 175 wRC+ in AAA, Torres was only at 145 last year (for a SS), Bryant was just 164, and Acuna 162. I'm sure those guys will be totally understanding when negotiating with their teams because they all understand they just weren't quite ready yet.

The whole thing is absolutely asinine. And I get it from a writer's perspective. Its August, the dog days are here, and there's one playoff race. As a non-Blue Jay fan, I get it. You want him up on your fantasy team.

As a Blue Jay fan...precious lord. Same people would be crying in his contract year at 25, wondering why his peak year isn't under team control. Its going to hurt you to wait until April next year????? ***** right off with that BS.

 

[zeke]

Vladdy

As for the age thing, being younger is not an argument in favour of calling someone up ahead of player a couple years older.

it sure is an argument that the numbers are more a reflection of talent rather than just experience, though.

Vladdy (19, AAA/AA): 355pa, 9.3b%, 9.9k%, .394bip, .394avg, .261iso, 201wrc+
Bryant (22, AAA/AA): 594pa, 14.5b%, 27.3k%, .405bip, .325avg, .335iso, 192wrc+
Jimenez (21, AAA/AA): 405pa, 7.2b%, 15.1k%, .340bip, .326avg, .250iso, 164wrc+
Acuna (19, AAA/AA): 486pa, 7.2b%, 21.4k%, .400bip, .335avg, .199iso, 160wrc+
Torres (20, AAA/AA): 235pa, 10.4b%, 19.4k%, .413bip, .345avg, .155iso, 153wrc+
Jansen (22, AAA/AA): 283pa, 11.5b%, 9.0k%, .317bip, .301avg, .154iso, 134wrc+

they're just not in the same class. not in the top line numbers, not in the underlying numbers.

Even Jimenez, who looks the safest of the names you listed, is more comparable to Danny Jansen than Vladdy.

 

[GoonieFace]

How about you just make the trip down to Buffalo and watch him play there, I don't see the urgency to call him up.

 

[zeke]

Same people would be crying in his contract year at 25, wondering why his peak year isn't under team control.

we should all be crying if he hasn't been extended by then.

 

[Discoverer]

The whole thing is absolutely asinine. And I get it from a writer's perspective. Its August, the dog days are here, and there's one playoff race. As a non-Blue Jay fan, I get it. You want him up on your fantasy team.

As a Blue Jay fan...precious lord. Same people would be crying in his contract year at 25, wondering why his peak year isn't under team control. Its going to hurt you to wait until April next year????? ***** right off with that BS.

It's easy to complain about him not being up now when your answer to the service time issue is always going to be "Just give him a whole bunch of money when he gets to free agency and it doesn't matter!"

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

It's easy to complain about him not being up now when your answer to the service time issue is always going to be "Just give him a whole bunch of money when he gets to free agency and it doesn't matter!"

Even with that as the basis of the opinion, what does one gain from having him up in August\September 2018? I am genuinely curious about that.

 

[canucksfan]

Even with that as the basis of the opinion, what does one gain from having him up in August\September 2018? I am genuinely curious about that.

Besides entertainment value nothing. I am willing to waive my month of entertainment value for an extra year of control.

 

[BlueForever75]

Shhhhhhh. 6 no hit innings for Pannone!!!! But don't say anything

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

For me, the most interesting guys to follow in the system are the ones who have a combination of patience at the plate and excellent contact skills: Vlad and Jansen at the top, obviously, and guys like Kirk, Lopez, Espinal, Jimenez (and, to a lesser extent, Cal Stevenson, who has the best BB/K rate in baseball by a mile but it really old for his level). I see those guys as the ones with the potential to really shoot up prospect rankings if they can make small adjustments to unlock more power (whereas I'm less confident in guys with poor discipline/contact ability suddenly figuring those things out).

I agree. I was actually going to post something akin to this a while back. I want us to target athletic, versatile, high-contact, low-strikeout guys. I think with the new MLB baseballs the ability to make contact can translate to more game power than raw for some guys. I look at guys like Albies, Altuve, Ramirez, Lindor, and Turner in that mold.

 

[Garlando]

Keith Law had a discussion about it on Twitter and I have had multiple conversations with baseball people where I've defended the Blue Jays decision to hold him down until next year, but the main points that I've heard for calling Vladdy Jr. up now are:

- The organization making more money in a month in a bit compared to a full year in 2025.
- Keeping fans happy and not losing fans for life somehow.
- CBA circumvention somehow.

All of which seem flimsy at best imo.

 

[zeke]

you either choose to have a team where everyone knows the deserving players play and the team tries to field the best team possible, or you have a team where everyone knows playing time is distributed based on asset management, and not trying to win games.

which kind of team we are has been clear for multiple seasons now - vladdy is just the most egregious, embarassing example.

 

[lovemyleafs]

lol pathetic defensive effort from Martin. No hitter would've still been intact if it wasn't for Russ.

And then followed up by a pathetic dropped catch from Teoscar. Love Teo, but he's atrocious defensively.

 

[BlueForever75]

lol pathetic defensive effort from Martin. No hitter would've still been intact if it wasn't for Russ.

And then followed up by a pathetic dropped catch from Teoscar. Love Teo, but he's atrocious defensively.

I agree. If that was Donaldson at 3rd and Teoscar not dropping one, this game would still be a no hitter.

Gotta feel for Pannone. At least Martin made up for it with a nice snag just now.

 

[Animal]

I agree. If that was Donaldson at 3rd and Teoscar not dropping one, this game would still be a no hitter.

Gotta feel for Pannone. At least Martin made up for it with a nice snag just now.

Gotta think it was his last inning anyways. He pitched in relief on Sunday, doubt they'd let him get to 110 pitches

 

[stickty111]

Acuna is hitting .286
The Braves organization has embarassed it self by not calling him up earlier
Such a pathetic management.

 

[BlueForever75]

Morales is on a tear!!! Another HR.

Any chance this guy clears waivers and someone takes him in a trade now that hes hot heading into September and October???

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Besides entertainment value nothing. I am willing to waive my month of entertainment value for an extra year of control.

I'll be in Buffalo Sunday.

Keith Law had a discussion about it on Twitter and I have had multiple conversations with baseball people where I've defended the Blue Jays decision to hold him down until next year, but the main points that I've heard for calling Vladdy Jr. up now are:

- The organization making more money in a month in a bit compared to a full year in 2025.
- Keeping fans happy and not losing fans for life somehow.
- CBA circumvention somehow.

All of which seem flimsy at best imo.

All absolute nonsense.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Morales is on a tear!!! Another HR.

Any chance this guy clears waivers and someone takes him in a trade now that hes hot heading into September and October???

Likely already cleared earlier this month.

 

[BlueForever75]

Likely already cleared earlier this month.

Any chance someone takes him on? Who would be interested if so?

 

[canucksfan]

you either choose to have a team where everyone knows the deserving players play and the team tries to field the best team possible, or you have a team where everyone knows playing time is distributed based on asset management, and not trying to win games.

which kind of team we are has been clear for multiple seasons now - vladdy is just the most egregious, embarassing example.

This management group believes in players getting experience at most if not all the levels of baseball. I know listening to Cherrington during a interview he stated that he doesn't feel players should skip AA and go straight to the MLB. Having only 75 PA at AAA Vlad still has more time.

Now, that is most likely the smaller reason. The big reason is service time. You can pretend this management group is the only one that does this but you know that isn't true. There are players in the minors now that could be called up in other organizations but aren't due to service time. The Braves started off the year well. Despite that, they still kept Acuna down there. In hindsight they could miss the playoffs because of that. Granted, Vlad has outperformed Acuna but based one performance alone, Acuna should have been up.