The Offseason aka O'Reilly Contract Season

[dahrougem2]

This is an unlikely scenario, but what if RoR doesn't want to be traded and that affects the ability for other teams to negotiate with his camp before a trade is made? The trading team goes to Newport and they demand something completely unreasonable. Is this a possibility?

It's definitely a possibility, but at that point the Avs will trade him for whatever they can get and ROR will be painting himself into a serious corner come 2016 UFA season by pissing off every team trying to trade for him and in my opinion would not be getting anything near the payday he'd be expecting to get.

 

[InjuredChoker]

It's definitely a possibility, but at that point the Avs will trade him for whatever they can get and ROR will be painting himself into a serious corner come 2016 UFA season by pissing off every team trying to trade for him and in my opinion would not be getting anything near the payday he'd be expecting to get.

i'm not really buying that. when has something like that ever happened?

teams that want to trade him at trade deadline are contenders and usually lack cap space. many would possibly want him only as a rental. and most contenders wouldn't be able to compete with offers of some other teams that are not there yet and have loads of cap space. like the sabres.

and it's all probably forgotten pretty quick anyway when GM looks at the hole on his roster at 2C and what ROR could bring,

maybe if he's set on going to one particular team, but other than that, i don't buy it that it significantly effects his chances to get paid if that's what he wants. it's not like that team would have to negotiate with him again anytime soon.

 

[dahrougem2]

i'm not really buying that. when has something like that ever happened?

teams that want to trade him at trade deadline are contenders and usually lack cap space. many would possibly want him only as a rental. and most contenders wouldn't be able to compete with offers of some other teams that are not there yet and have loads of cap space. like the sabres.

and it's all probably forgotten pretty quick anyway when GM looks at the hole on his roster at 2C and what ROR could bring,

maybe if he's set on going to one particular team, but other than that, i don't buy it that it significantly effects his chances to get paid if that's what he wants. it's not like that team would have to negotiate with him again anytime soon.

He'd essentially be telling teams that even though he doesn't have a NMC/NTC, he's going to control where he goes whether or not anyone likes it.

I don't think something like this has ever happened, but has something like the proposed situation earlier also ever happened? Where a player doesn't have a NMC/NTC but refuses to be traded by demanding something completely unreasonable from Team X if they asked to negotiate prior to the deal being made?

I think it'd hinder his chances at getting paid what he thinks he's worth. He'd still get paid big money, but I couldn't see teams getting into a massive bidding war for him as a UFA if he pulled something like this.

 

[klozge]

He'd essentially be telling teams that even though he doesn't have a NMC/NTC, he's going to control where he goes whether or not anyone likes it.

I don't think something like this has ever happened, but has something like the proposed situation earlier also ever happened? Where a player doesn't have a NMC/NTC but refuses to be traded by demanding something completely unreasonable from Team X if they asked to negotiate prior to the deal being made?

I think it'd hinder his chances at getting paid what he thinks he's worth. He'd still get paid big money, but I couldn't see teams getting into a massive bidding war for him as a UFA if he pulled something like this.

Why not? Give him a long term contract and you don't have to care about how difficult it may be to trade him, at least not while he's in his prime. Avs were stupid enough not to sign him long term the last time and that's the only reason they are in the current difficult situation. Now O'Reilly had his chance to prove his worth and even was the best forward on a dominating Canadian team this year in the eyes of some experts. One team will sign him for $7.5M per season and won't regret it. In a few years when the cap has gone up even more this amount of money will be considered a steal for a player like O'Reilly.

 

[linusandvarlamov]

Boy, I have a feeling we're going to get screwed with this ROR situation ... I really hope not. Getting a little antsy.

 

[raistlin76]

Why not? Give him a long term contract and you don't have to care about how difficult it may be to trade him, at least not while he's in his prime. Avs were stupid enough not to sign him long term the last time and that's the only reason they are in the current difficult situation. Now O'Reilly had his chance to prove his worth and even was the best forward on a dominating Canadian team this year in the eyes of some experts. One team will sign him for $7.5M per season and won't regret it. In a few years when the cap has gone up even more this amount of money will be considered a steal for a player like O'Reilly.

We don't know if he want to stay here or sign contract right now. he can wait for the full year and check what he can get on the open market. AVS can't let him go for nothing as they did with Stastny. Maybe AVS want to pay him 7,5 but he said NO. How do you know what they offered him and what was the answer from Newport? We can only speculate, but there is a reason AVS let all know they are listening to offers for him. Maybe it was better to sign him just for one year last time, but they thought they can negotiate with him after this season and giving him two years they showed commitment. Looks like it's not enough for him.

Hope we trade him during draft if there are no signs of the new deal.

 

[Avs71]

If I'm Tim Murray, I'd offer Zadorov, Foligno and the 21st pick in this year's draft.

Love the offer. I've wanted Foligno for a while, and it includes pretty much everything Roy is looking for.

I bet he could be had for cheaper though. In reality it would probably end up being a different defence prospect than Zadorov, or no first rounder included, etc.

I really hope Tim Murray is as gung-ho about O'Reilly as he comes across in reports.

 

[UncleRisto]

Love the offer. I've wanted Foligno for a while, and it includes pretty much everything Roy is looking for.

I bet he could be had for cheaper though. In reality it would probably end up being a different defence prospect than Zadorov, or no first rounder included, etc.

I really hope Tim Murray is as gung-ho about O'Reilly as he comes across in reports.

I think that offer is very fair and they shouldn't aim any lower. I think people are too high on Zadorov after hearing everyone talk about him for months.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Foligno has played LW recently but was a C in JR/AHL correct?

 

[cgf]

I think that offer is very fair and they shouldn't aim any lower. I think people are too high on Zadorov after hearing everyone talk about him for months.

Nah. Zads is legit awesome. He's an excellent skater with great size, a nasty streak, a very good outlet pass and really heavy slapper and the instincts to put it all together. He'd be a pretty perfect partner for Barrie moving forward.

I still think that the only way it gets any bigger than Zads+21 is if Murray likes Siemens and includes one of their RW prospects for him so that McCabe isn't the only potential top 4 LHD Buffalo has; and I'd be fine with that. Especially if it was Fasching coming back rather than Baptiste or Bailey, though I like both of them as well.

 

[Sabretip]

I'd like to think that would get it done. I'd certainly take it. I don't think your fellow Sabres fans would be happy though.

My fellow Sabres fans who oppose dealing Zadorov are caught up in either: 1) he is a LHD, which the Sabres are thin on; 2) O'Reilly is signed for only 1 more season and could walk away if he isn't extended; and/or 3) he will ask for $7M+ on his next contract when he's scored 20 goals only once. The other half of my fellow fans who endorse trading for O'Reilly feel the contributions he will make outweigh any offensive stats and the Sabres still have McCabe and Pysyk to go with Ristolainen in their young defense corps.

Love the offer. I've wanted Foligno for a while, and it includes pretty much everything Roy is looking for.

I bet he could be had for cheaper though. In reality it would probably end up being a different defence prospect than Zadorov, or no first rounder included, etc.

I really hope Tim Murray is as gung-ho about O'Reilly as he comes across in reports.

When the most respected hockey journalist out there (Bob McKenzie) says that Murray will "do everything in his power" to acquire O'Reilly - and then the next two most respected insiders (LeBrun and Dreger) echo the same sentiment, I think we can safely assume that Tim Murray loves O'Reilly as a player and will try hard to add him to his team.

Like any trade, it's law of supply and demand - O'Reilly is obviously coveted around the league for his age, style of play and character. On paper, he might not be worth a ransom but when the competition amongst teams looking to get him is as strong as expected, the bidding war will mean someone will have to overpay. Murray showed that he's willing to hit the home run in the Kane deal if it means landing a player he really values.

I think that offer is very fair and they shouldn't aim any lower. I think people are too high on Zadorov after hearing everyone talk about him for months.

Nah. Zads is legit awesome. He's an excellent skater with great size, a nasty streak, a very good outlet pass and really heavy slapper and the instincts to put it all together. He'd be a pretty perfect partner for Barrie moving forward.

In terms of his potential, it's sky-high and he isn't far from being a top 4 NHL regular with the tools he has - but obviously, he's only 20 years old and the maturity aspect is the cloud that brings some uncertainty as it does for most prospects that age. If the Avs were to argue they need/want immediate NHL help on defense, Zadorov may be a year away from making a legitimate impact at NHL level - which is why I think the Sabres would have to add another more NHL-ready player to the package, besides just a draft pick.

Foligno has played LW recently but was a C in JR/AHL correct?

He has played all 3 positions at different times in Buffalo - and has actually been a decent face-off man even though he's a natural winger.

Murray was loathe to include Foligno in the Kane deal and spoke of him as part of his core - but considering that Sakic will argue that O'Reilly is part of their core, I think Murray would agree to giving up Foligno. The Sabres added size in Deslauriers last year and Kane this year, will add more with Eichel and have Fasching in the system so losing Foligno's size/physical style is less risky now than it may have been 2-3 years ago.

 

[ABasin]

This is an unlikely scenario, but what if RoR doesn't want to be traded and that affects the ability for other teams to negotiate with his camp before a trade is made? The trading team goes to Newport and they demand something completely unreasonable. Is this a possibility?

I'm not sure why O'Reilly would have an objection to being traded under the terms of his current contract, unless it's that he wants to stay with a reasonably quality offensive team, so his 2015-16 numbers look good going into UFA.

How about a somewhat different scenario for discussion:

O'R is probably not interested in extending right now, because any team that extends him can trade him wherever they want prior to that extension kicking in, in July 2016. If O'R extends now, he could end up in Edmonton or Nashville or some place he wants no part of (no offense intended for residents of those two random cities) for a half a decade. He won't risk that for anything short of uber-pay, I'm guessing.

So, O'R's camp agrees to talk contract extension with potential trade partners, but they put their number at a very high place - one that would even be a stretch for next year's UFA offers (say, $8M per for 7 years) - and see who bites. I think very few teams (if any) would bite on that number, hence the O'R camp shrugs their shoulders and waits until the 2016 UFA period.

In essence, what this could turn out to be for Colorado, is a limited NMC even though there's not one written into O'R's contract.

IMO, this is precisely why O'R is likely a one-year rental in the trade market, and he won't bring back a king's ransom in said trade. IMO, this is why I believe that Colorado's roster will be worsened in the short-term, and IMO this is why I feel Sakic/Roy may balk when seeing the potential returns.

We'll see what transpires here. But if Zadorov + Foligno + late 1st is offered for O'R, Sakic should pull both hamstrings running so fast to the table to sign that deal. I doubt it'll be that good though.

 

[cgf]

I think the fear of getting re-traded would be negated somewhat if Buffalo traded a kings ransom for him and offered him the 7-7.5 per he should sign for right away. If Buffalo traded the earth and moon for him it's highly unlikely someone offers up even more to them before that extension kicks in.

Zads + 21 + Fasching/Bailey/Baptiste-or-Grigorenko(if we can swap him for Hanzal before the season starts), in this cause would qualify as that kind of package that ROR can feel safe in assuming won't be bettered to get him out of Buffalo before his NMC kicks in.

 

[lonelybadger]

I think they could get grigorenko thrown in pretty easily in a ror trade, I haven't seen much of him but I know roy used to see all of him back in the q and probably could watch some tape and catch up pretty quickly on if he is salvageable or not.

 

[hockeyfish]

I think they could get grigorenko thrown in pretty easily in a ror trade, I haven't seen much of him but I know roy used to see all of him back in the q and probably could watch some tape and catch up pretty quickly on if he is salvageable or not.

He is rumored to be going to the KHL anyway.

 

[lonelybadger]

The khl of Patrick roy?

 

[ArWKo]

Let's say it becomes increasingly clear that the Avs won't get the pieces (players) they're hoping for in an O'Reilly trade - either because his camp won't agree to extend with anyone or because nobody is offering the right pieces.

Does anyone see a scenario where the Avs are bold enough to instead trade O'Reilly for futures - lets says a 1st and a 2nd or two low 1sts, and then use the freed up cap space to offer sheet Dougie Hamilton at the high end of the 1st/2nd/3rd level compensation range.

I'm not very familiar with Boston's cap situation other than that it is tight - could they/would they match?

I also know that Boston and Colorado have a pretty decent trading relationship (although maybe that was a Chiarelli thing) which might make them reluctant to do this as well.

At the end of the day hopefully we just get at least SOMETHING for O'Reilly instead of having another Statsny situation.

 

[UncleRisto]

I looked for those Roy quotes about Grigorenko now.

2013:

“The area we were trying to work hard with Grigo was the compete level,” Roy said. “In my opinion, he was losing too many battles. At times, Grigo thought he was working hard. But when you’re watching the clips he was not. Obviously, we were trying to break that down. But that’s all I can say.”

This March:

“I’m not nervous for him,” Roy said Saturday. “I’m confident that eventually he’ll find his way with the Sabres.”

“I think he’s learning,” Roy said. “Some players develop faster than others. I’m sure the expectations are very high for him in Buffalo, but Grigo has a lot of skills, has a lot of hockey sense.”

 

[cgf]

I think they could get grigorenko thrown in pretty easily in a ror trade, I haven't seen much of him but I know roy used to see all of him back in the q and probably could watch some tape and catch up pretty quickly on if he is salvageable or not.

Fasching, Bailey and Baptiste are all more interesting than Grigs unless we have a Grigs for Hanzal trade lined up.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

So it's okay to be a "pain" with negotiations, sign an OS that's designed to screw over your old team should they match it (because they don't have the money to do so), and to put yourself/family above the team, so long as you've "won something"?

.

For me, the difference is that I watch the games to see the Avs win the Cup. Sakic did that for this team before demanding to be paid like a superstar.

O'Reilly hasn't, yet still demands to be paid like a superstar.

I watch to see Avs win the Cup, not to see players get super rich.

 

[cgf]

For me, the difference is that I watch the games to see the Avs win the Cup. Sakic did that for this team before demanding to be paid like a superstar.

O'Reilly hasn't, yet still demands to be paid like a superstar.

I watch to see Avs win the Cup, not to see players get super rich.

ROR has yet to demand to be pair like a superstar.

 

[Bubba Thudd]

Near 1000

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