The Official Pierre "high five" Dorion Thread | Part II

[Brannstorm]

Pierre Dorion has impressed the crab out of me.

Guy has his father as a scout, then becomes a scout, then drafts our whole team, then takes over the reigns and almost wins us the Stanley cup when literally ALL analysts in the GTA had us out in the first round.

He is a hero and I feel it comin' #StanleyCupUnderDorion

And people come onnnnn. Trades like the Burrows one are necessary to win the Stanley Cup. The rest just has to also be executed well. The trade was only a small piece to a big puzzle that as we all know was almost completed.

High Five!

 

[Micklebot]

Is it really that surprising that Burrows scored at a higher pace in Ottawa than in Vancouver? Vancouver has been the second lowest scoring team in the league two years running, coincidentally, those are two of Burrows years at lower production.

Ottawa scored 30! more goals than Vancouver did last year, they were almost as far behind us as we were behind Edmonton in scoring. Burrows didn't play on the PP (for Van), and his pts per 60 at ES put him 5th on our team. His 25 5v5 pts are ahead of Thornton, Drouin, Landeskog, Hossa, Larkin, Strome, Konecny, Neal, Lucic, Simmonds, ect.

It's really bizarre how quick people are to dismiss him as a 4th line plug, overpaid, and write him off completely as a complete waste, particularly when you consider he's not a one dimensional offense only player; he's a pretty well rounded player.

I'm not saying he's going to put up 40+ pts, but the expectation that he's going to struggle to hit 20 is absurd imo. He's come into a much better situation than he left, not the other way around.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Pierre Dorion has impressed the crab out of me.

He's been claw-fully good.

 

[Micklebot]

Pierre Dorion has impressed the crab out of me.

Guy has his father as a scout, then becomes a scout, then drafts our whole team, then takes over the reigns and almost wins us the Stanley cup when literally ALL analysts in the GTA had us out in the first round.

He is a hero and I feel it comin' #StanleyCupUnderDorion

And people come onnnnn. Trades like the Burrows one are necessary to win the Stanley Cup. The rest just has to also be executed well. The trade was only a small piece to a big puzzle that as we all know was almost completed.

High Five!

Jeez.... that had to hurt.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

He's been claw-fully good.

Especially with Melnyk being known to penny pinch.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion possible wtf moves
- Throwing in a 2nd along with the younger , bigger, faster, stronger Zibanejad
- Not leaving Lazar in Bingo ; and allowing his Waiver free window to pass
- Trading Dahlen, a blossoming prospect for Burrows at the TDL
- Signing Burrows (36) to a 2 year extension
- Losing Methot and not reacquiring him
- McCormick 2nd year 1 way
- In a corner; Can't resign Stalberg

possible high 5 moves
- Acquiring Condon for a 5th round pick
- Upgrading the 4th line+ at / around the TDL;
- resigning Condon
- resigning Pyatt
- promoting Trent Mann

Not sure - Sign Thompson 2 years 1.65 M-NTC ($ and term)

 

[OgieO]

sure perspective is definitely important lets try this

- 36 years old
- gave him an extension and ntc
- gave him 2.5 million per year before he signed in ottawa and strung some good games together
- prior to that from 2014-2016 in vancouver he put up a 0.36ppg and has shown all indications of slowing down
- traded a highly reputable prospect (dahlen can flop like rundblad but they both had similar hype so its hard to imagine that the best we could get for dahlen was burrows)

that hot streak by burrows in ottawa makes the extension look a bit better but lets hope he can keep that up to justify that contract. But unless burrows somehow goes vintage and puts up the numbers he was putting up with the sedins i really doubt there is anything that makes the deal even in terms of value (unless dahlen flops hardcore).

So the only way to make the trade or at the very least the extension look decent is for burrows to put up points and unless im missing something he is being penciled in to play with thompson and pyatt so it is completely unreasonable to expect burrows to hit enough points to justify the extension

People might even have accepted the extension amount if we paid a lesser price but we didnt. We are banking on a player that has shown a decline in his play to somehow produce at 2.5 million dollars worth and its a bad bet

Average NHL salary is $3,500,000 for next year. Burrows cap hit is the 333rd highest in the NHL next year. He is a being paid like a below average player, somewhere approx mid 3rd liner type of compensation. Which is exactly what he is right now as a player. He also offers intangibles which helped us in the playoffs.

I can see the complaints about moving Dahlen for him, but his contract extension is a fair price.

 

[BondraTime]

Dorion possible wtf moves
- Throwing in a 2nd along with the younger , bigger, faster, stronger Zibanejad
- Not leaving Lazar in Bingo ; and allowing his Waiver free window to pass
- Trading Dahlen, a blossoming prospect for Burrows at the TDL
- Signing Burrows (36) to a 2 year extension
- Losing Methot and not reacquiring him
- McCormick 2nd year 1 way
- In a corner; Can't resign Stalberg

possible high 5 moves
- Acquiring Condon for a 5th round pick
- Upgrading the 4th line+ at / around the TDL;
- resigning Condon
- resigning Pyatt
- promoting Trent Mann

Not sure - Sign Thompson 2 years 1.65 M-NTC ($ and term)

That's a big one. He's been our best scout for 5 years, we can thank him for Chabot and Chlapik (and 100% Bowers and Batherson)

 

[Micklebot]

Average NHL salary is $3,500,000 for next year. Burrows cap hit is the 333rd highest in the NHL next year. He is a being paid like a below average player, somewhere approx mid 3rd liner type of compensation. Which is exactly what he is right now as a player. He also offers intangibles which helped us in the playoffs.

I can see the complaints about moving Dahlen for him, but his contract extension is a fair price.

I totally agree with this. Dahlen was too high a price to pay for Burrows. 2.5 for two years is fair value for Burrows.

I pointed out in another thread, but Burrows' 5v5 production last year was pretty good, better than a lot of guys people would been thrilled to add. On top of that, he was in a terrible situation in Vancouver; they had the 2nd lowest goals for league wide 2 years running, Ottawa, who most see as an offensively inept defensive team outscored Vancouver by 30 goals.

Burrows had more 5v5 (no empty net) goals than Landeskog, Thornton, Neal, Drouin, and a host of other players. He was 5th on our team in 5v5 pts/60. The guy can still contribute, he still skates well, he still has a great shot, can still kill penalties Is known as a clutch performer and good guy in the lockeroom. He can play both wings too.

 

[trentmccleary]

What level of player do we think that Dahlen could have been traded straight up for?

 

[Benjamin]

What level of player do we think that Dahlen could have been traded straight up for?

Tatar.

 

[Sensinitis]

Tatar.

That's ridiculous.

 

[topshelf15]

What level of player do we think that Dahlen could have been traded straight up for?

So true ,Burrows is a great fit on this team ,besides how many winger prospects do we need ??We have better than him already signed and are developing,or will be this year at the pro level

 

[God Says No]

He played more than 20 games though, but i guess you'd like to omit the 7 multi point games he had for the canucks too.

I must say its pretty rich to hear you say he will be an overpaid 4th liner while claiming others are builing him to be ore than he deserves whe we point out that he has perfectly fine numbers for a third liner.

I'm talking about his time in Ottawa. The time in Van is irrelevant as it's a completely different dynamic with different deployments.

You seem to be missing the point. My argument is that he was invisible for 90% of the time. The points bare that out, hence that's why I mentioned it.

Even though his points are ok for a 3rd liner (in the small sample size), he was disappointing. For the price we paid, there is a larger expectation. It's a simple fact.

Thats why I said pretty much (I assumed this would imply not every single one), it was all but one or two of the OT goals. My memory is fine and I could dig up the proof but theres no point arguing with someone that obviously just doesnt like the player.

2.5 Mil is 3rd line money these days. Our 3rd line center is about to get paid between 3 and 4 while smith is right between there. 2 guys that only outproduced Burrows by 1 and 2 points last year.

You are cherry picking if youre discluding games like that and there's no reasonable explanation to do so other than it fits your argument, almost every player is inconsistent if you do that, especially guys like Burrows that are more like 0.3-0.5 ppg players. If you disclude Pageau's 4 goal game this year and his hat trick game against Montreal his playoff point totals look like ****, but he's adored by the fans and we all know discluding those 2 games just isn't how it works.

JGP contributed much more than Burrows, even without scoring. That's the issue. Again, my point is that for the price we paid, and the build up the management has made at the time of the deal, the expectations (whether fair or not) were higher.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

I'm talking about his time in Ottawa. The time in Van is irrelevant as it's a completely different dynamic with different deployments.

You seem to be missing the point. My argument is that he was invisible for 90% of the time. The points bare that out, hence that's why I mentioned it.

Even though his points are ok for a 3rd liner (in the small sample size), he was disappointing. For the price we paid, there is a larger expectation. It's a simple fact.



JGP contributed much more than Burrows, even without scoring. That's the issue. Again, my point is that for the price we paid, and the build up the management has made at the time of the deal, the expectations (whether fair or not) were higher.

It's really not a fact though. You and some others say he was invisible, some of us say he wasn't. I would argue he was instrumental in both getting in to the playoffs and most of our OT winners. I would also argue that part of the reason some feel he is invisible is because one of his greatest attributes is just how smart he is and he never makes the wrong play. It's him getting crushed along the boards as he makes the play to send others to glory on 2 of those OT winners. Its him taking punishment in front of the net screening the goalie on one of the other OT winners. The guy just does whatever it takes but still puts up decent numbers. For an older player it hasn't seemed to impact his skating either, he gets around better than half our lineup imo.

I was just trying to demonstrate that there were only 3 players that outproduced burrows by anything significant and that production wise he's right there with the other 5 top nine players. He brings things like blocking shots and taking hits to make plays, and he's an excellent penalty killer. Nobody likes what we gave up, but if we can move on from that then maybe people would see that we have a very useful, productive player on a reasonable 3rd line money short term contract.

 

[JungleBeat]

Burrows is so bad. He shouldn't be playing in the top nine.

 

[topshelf15]

Burrows is so bad. He shouldn't be playing in the top nine.

Meh,Burrows will go through slumps and hot streaks.So him playing in the top 9 all season long is probably not going to happen.Good thing we have more than enough depth to swap him out from time to time

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Burrows is so bad. He shouldn't be playing in the top nine.

You should post this on the Nucks board, I am curious what the responses will be.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Burrows is so bad. He shouldn't be playing in the top nine.

His production says he should be.

 

[topshelf15]

He is fine ,we have a deep group of forwards.That can play the system we have to play in order to be successful.We dont have any elite top 6 forwards,so we become and elite checking team up front

 

[God Says No]

It's really not a fact though. You and some others say he was invisible, some of us say he wasn't. I would argue he was instrumental in both getting in to the playoffs and most of our OT winners. I would also argue that part of the reason some feel he is invisible is because one of his greatest attributes is just how smart he is and he never makes the wrong play. It's him getting crushed along the boards as he makes the play to send others to glory on 2 of those OT winners. Its him taking punishment in front of the net screening the goalie on one of the other OT winners. The guy just does whatever it takes but still puts up decent numbers. For an older player it hasn't seemed to impact his skating either, he gets around better than half our lineup imo.

Well, I still disagree that he was not invisible. Listen, I ****ing love smart bottom six players. Go through my post history if you would like, but I was one of the few Condra defenders here. He was a perfect bottom six player. Even though he didn't produce, he still stood out to me when I watched the games. Burrows did not. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's just not as good as you make him out to be. He's ok, and he can't be just ok because of the price we paid. He will always be tied to the price. Whether that's fair or not. If he came in for a 3rd rounder, and didn't sign that 2 year extension at 36 years old, and Dorion didn't build him up more so than he should have, no one would have said a word. But the reality is that all those things happened, and that's the context he will be judged upon.

I was just trying to demonstrate that there were only 3 players that outproduced burrows by anything significant and that production wise he's right there with the other 5 top nine players. He brings things like blocking shots and taking hits to make plays, and he's an excellent penalty killer. Nobody likes what we gave up, but if we can move on from that then maybe people would see that we have a very useful, productive player on a reasonable 3rd line money short term contract.

In today's NHL your bottom six can't be making a lot of money. For a 36 year old, the 2.5 and 2 years is not great. If there is any regression (which is likely), we will be stuck with a 5M 4th line. Especially for a internal cap team like ours, that's unacceptable.

Now, if Burrows goes out and plays like you seem to be sure of he will, I will be the first one to praise him. I don't have a hate on players, I'm just realistic. Even when Cowen had good games (he actually did have some), I would praise him. But that didn't happen very often.

 

[Deku]

Even though his points are ok for a 3rd liner (in the small sample size), he was disappointing. For the price we paid, there is a larger expectation. It's a simple fact.

That is not a fact. It is a fact that we overpaid for him, but YOU being disappointed because of the expectations that YOU set for him, doesn't make it a fact that he was "disappointing" as a whole. Opinion =/= fact

 

[Polansky]

Burrows is so bad. He shouldn't be playing in the top nine.

Same 5 on 5 production as Patrick Marleau.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Well, I still disagree that he was not invisible. Listen, I ****ing love smart bottom six players. Go through my post history if you would like, but I was one of the few Condra defenders here. He was a perfect bottom six player. Even though he didn't produce, he still stood out to me when I watched the games. Burrows did not. I'm not saying he's a bad player, he's just not as good as you make him out to be. He's ok, and he can't be just ok because of the price we paid. He will always be tied to the price. Whether that's fair or not. If he came in for a 3rd rounder, and didn't sign that 2 year extension at 36 years old, and Dorion didn't build him up more so than he should have, no one would have said a word. But the reality is that all those things happened, and that's the context he will be judged upon.



In today's NHL your bottom six can't be making a lot of money. For a 36 year old, the 2.5 and 2 years is not great. If there is any regression (which is likely), we will be stuck with a 5M 4th line. Especially for a internal cap team like ours, that's unacceptable.

Now, if Burrows goes out and plays like you seem to be sure of he will, I will be the first one to praise him. I don't have a hate on players, I'm just realistic. Even when Cowen had good games (he actually did have some), I would praise him. But that didn't happen very often.

I just can't agree that we should expect more from him because of what we gave up or how Dorion spoke about him. I believe him that the guys in the room were in fact stoked that they got him, why would they care about a prospect years away that they may never play with. I couldn't care less what we gave up for him at this point tbh, it's just water under the bridge. I appreciate that our GM has the balls to give up youth for things he feels we need, I felt like Muckler never would and it was a big problem for us. Granted I wouldn't want him to destroy the farm but I had no problem with him going for it a little last year. I've been watching this team for 20 years and I've seen favorite player after favorite player leave for worse players, so I just don't really care too much about one prospect at this point, we will make do.

I'm just happy to have another quality top 9 NHLer on a reasonable contract. I guess we just see different things from him. I see him doing a lot of the little "intangible" things like blocking shots, being effective on the PK, taking hits to make plays, and getting in the goalies face. As for the age thing, I just don't want that to be such a black and white thing like it's become, not everyone is the same and he still skates really well for his age so I'm not concerned. That and the fact that he's got a small short contract, I just don't see it being an issue. Imo the Phaneuf & Ryan contracts are way more of a hindrance on adding to our roster because we've made our bed with them by paying them like they're elite players but they're more like secondary contributors at this point.

 

[2CHAINZ]

Guys I just met Piere Dorion. I approached him and asked if I could have a moment of his time. He said go ahead ask me one question and I will answer honestly, but one and only one question. I asked him if could have a high five! We are friends now.