Player Discussion The Nuge Part II | He sucks. The player's alright though.

[Spawn]

Anybody hear what RNH is doing this summer in terms of improving? Getting serious or just hanging with his brother again?

He still trains with this brother. Not that that means he isn't serious about off-season training. This whole "he just needs to get stronger in the off-season" nonsense that has been trotted around for years is just a way to try and ignore the reality that he's just not a remarkable player in any way.

 

[KingKhron]

He still trains with this brother. Not that that means he isn't serious about off-season training. This whole "he just needs to get stronger in the off-season" nonsense that has been trotted around for years is just a way to try and ignore the reality that he's just a remarkable player in any way.[/QUOTE

Unremarkable in every way, you mean? If so, I would claim that he is a fairly remarkable player that is wandering the desert in a way. Trying to think of comparables. Skinner? Someone who showed immense talent and then seemed to get lost. You don't fake the talent that he showed in year one but it has been sidelined and that's what we all debate why. I'm in the camp that thinks he just focused on keeping it out of the net for a ****** club and lost the offensive side of thinking. Neglect that for this many years and it becomes dull as hell, perhaps never to be realized. Be fun if he somehow fit with Connor and got hooked on the high of offense.

 

[Asiaoil]

We've been down this road a hundred times before. RNH never showed elite ES goal scoring ability at any point in his NHL or WHL career. At this point it's almost certain he never will. He is slight, and while putting on a bit of weight over the years, is still easily pushed around by bigger forwards. People waiting for his "old man strength" are also still waiting for his goal scoring ability. It's never coming. He plays tough minutes, but not particularly well, as he is out-scored by quality opposition (maybe they are simply better then him?, just maybe?). He is not a natural leader and is easily intimidated by bigger, more aggressive players. This has led him to be a perimeter player putting up easily stoppable shots from low percentage parts of the ice. Like Eberle he was destroyed by dysfunctional coaching and management and never learned how to play "big boy hockey". He looks pretty out there but accomplishes little. I'd give him one last season to try repair his game but I'm afraid he seems unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to contribute to a championship team. Would be happy for him to prove me wrong but I doubt he has it in him.

RNH for David Savard works for me and it might work for Columbus.

 

[russ99]

We've been down this road a hundred times before. RNH never showed elite ES goal scoring ability at any point in his NHL or WHL career. At this point it's almost certain he never will. He is slight, and while putting on a bit of weight over the years, is still easily pushed around by bigger forwards. People waiting for his "old man strength" are also still waiting for his goal scoring ability. It's never coming. He plays tough minutes, but not particularly well, as he is out-scored by quality opposition (maybe they are simply better then him?, just maybe?). He is not a natural leader and is easily intimidated by bigger, more aggressive players. This has led him to be a perimeter player putting up easily stoppable shots from low percentage parts of the ice. Like Eberle he was destroyed by dysfunctional coaching and management and never learned how to play "big boy hockey". He looks pretty out there but accomplishes little. I'd give him one last season to try repair his game but I'm afraid he seems unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to contribute to a championship team. Would be happy for him to prove me wrong but I doubt he has it in him.

RNH for David Savard works for me and it might work for Columbus.

This is why the whole trade Leon and keep Nuge rhetoric makes no sense to me, Leon is strong in all the areas that RNH is weak.

He's still a useful player, good two-way third line center, with good defensive reactions if not physicality, and some nice secondary scoring, but unless he changes his game like McLellan said, his days are over on the Oilers top six, and likely traded by July.

I also really don't like the idea of RNH at RW, we pretty much lose all of his good qualities as a defensive center and accentuate his poor ones on the wall/in tough areas, and a pump-and -dump at the expense of a younger player who needs the ice time to grow into someone better seems like we're shooting our own foot, focusing on trade value over a better hockey club.

It also seems like too many fans who want McDavid and RNH on the same line are wishing for a return of rebuild era offense, three players in on the rush, 5 pretty passes leading up to the perfect goal. We don't play like that anymore and it works, we win more games this way.

McLellan's systems are all about mismatches, shooting often and getting the puck back, and RNH doesn't have the skill set to excel in that system, which isn't totally his fault, management screwed him and lots of other things up. Keep him this year for his defense since we have the cap room, then it's time to move on next offseason, like with Ebs.

 

[FlameChampion]

He still trains with this brother. Not that that means he isn't serious about off-season training. This whole "he just needs to get stronger in the off-season" nonsense that has been trotted around for years is just a way to try and ignore the reality that he's just a remarkable player in any way.

If hes still traning with his brother thats kind of dissapointing. I do think he trains fairly hard but it would be nice to see him try something different as he hasnt really improved all that much since entering the league. Would really like to see him work on his skating more and forget about upper body strength. Being more quicker and having more explosive bursts would help him more in my opinion. And he should try and use his feet more during faceoffs rather than his upper body.

From watching him in the playoffs, when games got into overtime, he seemed to look better in comparison than most players on the ice. So I think his cardio, stamina, conditioning etc is pretty good.

I think a lot of his problems are mental though. I think he plays the game way too cautiously, and needs to take risks more. I think he focuses and worries too much on what his linemates are doing, rather than just doing his job, which leads to gaffes on plays.

I am always interested to see how he looks coming into camp. I do like the player but its obvious at this point, hes not worth 6million for what he brings. After finally having some team success, and now that some pressure is off him (maybe), I hope hes mentally reset and I hope hes willing to be more creative and take more risks this year.

I hope he has a good season.

 

[ponokanocker]

This year will determine if he stays an Oiler. I feel he has the ability to be a very solid contributor to the organization long term, but if he doesn't show solid progression this year, he is done as an Oiler. I had high hopes for him, even over Eberle or Hall, but he just isn't progressing where he looked to be heading.

It will also depend on how he is being deployed. If he is constantly taking on the tough assignments, I highly doubt we will see his offense return this season. I have a feeling that McLennan will be roling his lines more against the oppositions best though, as McDavid and Draisaitl continue to grow as players.

 

[Asiaoil]

I really hope RNH has a great year where we run 3 scoring lines and he does well against lesser opposition with wingers like JP and Jokinen. Drai is ready to take a bigger load at center, as is McDavid, so this really is a chance for us to BOTH play RNH at center and build his value. RNH is not a Chia winger at all as others have said and you devalue him if he's not a center. If he knocks it out of the park then we have a choice to make with him - but we win either way in trade or by keeping him.

 

[Fourier]

We've been down this road a hundred times before. RNH never showed elite ES goal scoring ability at any point in his NHL or WHL career. At this point it's almost certain he never will. He is slight, and while putting on a bit of weight over the years, is still easily pushed around by bigger forwards. People waiting for his "old man strength" are also still waiting for his goal scoring ability. It's never coming. He plays tough minutes, but not particularly well, as he is out-scored by quality opposition (maybe they are simply better then him?, just maybe?). He is not a natural leader and is easily intimidated by bigger, more aggressive players. This has led him to be a perimeter player putting up easily stoppable shots from low percentage parts of the ice. Like Eberle he was destroyed by dysfunctional coaching and management and never learned how to play "big boy hockey". He looks pretty out there but accomplishes little. I'd give him one last season to try repair his game but I'm afraid he seems unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to contribute to a championship team. Would be happy for him to prove me wrong but I doubt he has it in him.

RNH for David Savard works for me and it might work for Columbus.

His ES goal scoring has always been very good. In 2014-2015 he was tied for 4th amongst centers. And over the period between when he entered the league and the end of 2015 he was tied for 15th amongst players who actually played center in ES goals.

Last year in his worst year statistically he was tied for 35th with 13 despite a terrible start. He had 9 goals at ES in his last 44 games from Jan 1(Leon had 13 and McDavid had 14). Amongst centers that would have put him around 22nd over that span.



Interestingly enough his assist totals over that period without Hall were actually very high but with Hall they dropped off significantly at ES.

 

[nabob]

We've been down this road a hundred times before. RNH never showed elite ES goal scoring ability at any point in his NHL or WHL career. At this point it's almost certain he never will. He is slight, and while putting on a bit of weight over the years, is still easily pushed around by bigger forwards. People waiting for his "old man strength" are also still waiting for his goal scoring ability. It's never coming. He plays tough minutes, but not particularly well, as he is out-scored by quality opposition (maybe they are simply better then him?, just maybe?). He is not a natural leader and is easily intimidated by bigger, more aggressive players. This has led him to be a perimeter player putting up easily stoppable shots from low percentage parts of the ice. Like Eberle he was destroyed by dysfunctional coaching and management and never learned how to play "big boy hockey". He looks pretty out there but accomplishes little. I'd give him one last season to try repair his game but I'm afraid he seems unwilling to make the necessary sacrifices to contribute to a championship team. Would be happy for him to prove me wrong but I doubt he has it in him.

RNH for David Savard works for me and it might work for Columbus.

So much wrong with this post. First off no one ever expected RNH to be an elite goal scorer, no one. He has a good release and can dangle but he is, and always has been a playmaker/set up guy. It's also a myth that he is afraid of contact, out of all the previous generation of our young stars he was by far the most willing to engage in contact despite being the smallest frame. Also, he is a center and doesn't engage in as many board battles because it's not his position to do so as often. Lastly to say that he looks pretty out there but accomplished little is completely false. Nuge constantly gets praise for doing the little things right, not cheating for offense, smart stick checks...plays that don't look pretty, but plays that lead to winning.

 

[Asiaoil]

His ES goal scoring has always been very good. In 2014-2015 he was tied for 4th amongst centers. And over the period between when he entered the league and the end of 2015 he was tied for 15th amongst players who actually played center in ES goals.

Last year in his worst year statistically he was tied for 35th with 13 despite a terrible start. He had 9 goals at ES in his last 44 games from Jan 1(Leon had 13 and McDavid had 14). Amongst centers that would have put him around 22nd over that span.

Interestingly enough his assist totals over that period without Hall were actually very high but with Hall they dropped off significantly at ES.

You are putting him in the best possible light and can't just kick out parts of the season that are inconvenient to your position. He had 8 ES goals two years ago and 13 last year. Hockeystats is gone, and I'm using NHL.com which is problematic as you know, but RNH was #52 in terms of centers numbers last year and #102 in 2015-16. You are also talking raw numbers and not G/60 which corrects for ice time of which RNH has had lots. He's a PP witch (or was - not so much lately) not an ES producer. As soon as a real coach arrived on the scene who expected responsible two way play his production plummeted. People talk about his tough opposition (which is true) but he's also had the most ice time and best linemates for his whole career until McDavid arrived. Truth is the guy got $6 million contract based on a rookie season pumped by crazy PP numbers that were never repeated. It was a bad contract and he has categorically not covered the bet. Now if he was getting Couturier money it would be OK - but I'd still take Couts even if he was paid the same as Couts is bigger, better defensively, and has out-scored him in terms of ESG and ESP/60 in 2 out of the last three years if memory serves.

Those are the numbers - in terms of non-numeric factors - what is etched in my memory from the playoffs is watching him meekly turn and skate away every time after Getzlaf stared him down and crosschecked him after the whistle. There was no response. That was the trademark of the old Oilers who basically surrendered whenever a bigger more intimidating team decided to play serious. He is utterly replaceable and we will not miss him when he's gone. Just like we didn't miss a beat without Hall, and just like we will not miss Ebs. The Austin were defective as a leadership group and you could not help but share the smirks those guys got around the league as Oilers mgmt gave them letters and tried to pretend they were leaders.

 

[harpoon]

He is utterly replaceable and we will not miss him when he's gone. Just like we didn't miss a beat without Hall, and just like we will not miss Ebs. The Austin were defective as a leadership group and you could not help but share the smirks those guys got around the league as Oilers mgmt gave them letters and tried to pretend they were leaders.

Maybe you 'couldn't help' but share the smirks, but I imagine most posters on this site wanted to win more than they wanted to share smirks with their imaginary friends around the league.

 

[Fourier]

You are putting him in the best possible light and can't just kick out parts of the season that are inconvenient to your position. He had 8 ES goals two years ago and 13 last year. Hockeystats is gone, and I'm using NHL.com which is problematic as you know, but RNH was #52 in terms of centers numbers last year and #102 in 2015-16. You are also talking raw numbers and not G/60 which corrects for ice time of which RNH has had lots. He's a PP witch (or was - not so much lately) not an ES producer. As soon as a real coach arrived on the scene who expected responsible two way play his production plummeted. People talk about his tough opposition (which is true) but he's also had the most ice time and best linemates for his whole career until McDavid arrived. Truth is the guy got $6 million contract based on a rookie season pumped by crazy PP numbers that were never repeated. It was a bad contract and he has categorically not covered the bet. Now if he was getting Couturier money it would be OK - but I'd still take Couts even if he was paid the same as Couts is bigger, better defensively, and has out-scored him in terms of ESG and ESP/60 in 2 out of the last three years if memory serves.

Those are the numbers - in terms of non-numeric factors - what is etched in my memory from the playoffs is watching him meekly turn and skate away every time after Getzlaf stared him down and crosschecked him after the whistle. There was no response. That was the trademark of the old Oilers who basically surrendered whenever a bigger more intimidating team decided to play serious. He is utterly replaceable and we will not miss him when he's gone. Just like we didn't miss a beat without Hall, and just like we will not miss Ebs. The Austin were defective as a leadership group and you could not help but share the smirks those guys got around the league as Oilers mgmt gave them letters and tried to pretend they were leaders.

Your post said

RNH never showed elite ES goal scoring ability at any point in his NHL or WHL career.

Now the word elite is in the eye of the beholder so I am not really interested in debating what that means. For the record I don't think he is an elite goal scorer. Nor did I ever expect he would be. But in the past you have been critical of his ES production suggesting that he has never had much success. To counter the word "never" it is perfectly reasonable to cherry pick periods where he has done well. So I simply pointed out that one year he was 4th in ES goals and that during his time when he actually focused on offense more so than he did the last two years he was in the top 30 fro centers in ES goals. In fact the only period where he has struggle din that regard was the period you are pointing to.

I have already stated why I am very leery of blindly correcting for minutes. While it can be useful it often leads to apples to oranges comparisons. For one thing not all minutes are equal. For a relatively talented line fourth center playing 8 minutes per game's G/60 has a far different meaning than it does if you compare guys who play against the oppositions best.

The other issue which certainly impacts RNH is that even for an individual goals scored is not a linear function of minutes played. At some point the law of diminishing returns kicks in. If you want an extreme example of this ask yourself how you would expect a players G/60 to be impacted if he played the whole 60 minutes of a game. Nuge's TOi under Eakins for example was extreme but it was not to his benefit.

As to the rest of the post it is mostly subjective stuff. I don't agree but you are entitled to your opinion.

And BTW when you use NHL.com for comparing centers one thing that needs some care is in who actually plays center. They list everyone

 

[Asiaoil]

Your post said
Now the word elite is in the eye of the beholder so I am not really interested in debating what that means. For the record I don't think he is an elite goal scorer. Nor did I ever expect he would be. But in the past you have been critical of his ES production suggesting that he has never had much success. To counter the word "never" it is perfectly reasonable to cherry pick periods where he has done well. So I simply pointed out that one year he was 4th in ES goals and that during his time when he actually focused on offense more so than he did the last two years he was in the top 30 fro centers in ES goals. In fact the only period where he has struggle din that regard was the period you are pointing to.

I have already stated why I am very leery of blindly correcting for minutes. While it can be useful it often leads to apples to oranges comparisons. For one thing not all minutes are equal. For a relatively talented line fourth center playing 8 minutes per game's G/60 has a far different meaning than it does if you compare guys who play against the oppositions best.

The other issue which certainly impacts RNH is that even for an individual goals scored is not a linear function of minutes played. At some point the law of diminishing returns kicks in. If you want an extreme example of this ask yourself how you would expect a players G/60 to be impacted if he played the whole 60 minutes of a game. Nuge's TOi under Eakins for example was extreme but it was not to his benefit.

As to the rest of the post it is mostly subjective stuff. I don't agree but you are entitled to your opinion.

And BTW when you use NHL.com for comparing centers one thing that needs some care is in who actually plays center. They list everyone

Fourier - first off I think you are one of the best posters on this board and I always respect your opinions which are almost always based on sound thinking. You also point out where I'm wrong and I appreciate that.

But on to Nuge. OK never is strong word but he's has not had any extended periods of elite 5x5 scorong and this goes back to his junior days. This was THE major red flag on his body of work in junior pre-draft. Sure I know the NHL.com lists almost anyone who takes a faceoff as a center. Hockeystats going down is a huge loss. We differ in the importance of per 60 and GF numbers - to each his own - there is no silver bullet. But I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the number of opportunities (ice time), teammates while on the ice, and results (goals for and against) while on the ice. Context necessary of course but it's valuable information. As you said - Nuge's ice time under Eakins was extreme and that represents opportunities for points that other player did not get. He should get more points and ignoring that difference seems unreasonable to me. Simple fix is to draw a line on minimum ice time and provide context (linemates, competition, zone starts, etc etc).

Subjective is not unimportant - in fact - it can be decisive. It can also be evaluated and entire fields of qualitative research are devoted to this which the hockey stats people simply ignore or dismiss. It makes them looked dated in term of methodology. The so-called "intangibles" are not unimportant but might in fact be the most useful area of unexplored research in sport. For me I dislike "weak" hockey players who do not make the best of their physical assets, display poor leadership and back down when challenged. This is poison to team-building and overall performance especially when it's displayed by the most highly paid members of a team. We know who Ference was talking about when he mentioned looking across the room and knowing certain guys would never have his back. Ference being past his "best before" date as a player doesn't make it any less true. Now the verbal about RNH has been different from certain guys on the team who are widely respected so I'm willing to give him another shot on that basis. But if he doesn't show up to camp bigger, stronger and hungrier then he won't be long for the Oilers dressing room.

 

[Fourier]

Fourier - first off I think you are one of the best posters on this board and I always respect your opinions which are almost always based on sound thinking. You also point out where I'm wrong and I appreciate that.

But on to Nuge. OK never is strong word but he's has not had any extended periods of elite 5x5 scorong and this goes back to his junior days. This was THE major red flag on his body of work in junior pre-draft. Sure I know the NHL.com lists almost anyone who takes a faceoff as a center. Hockeystats going down is a huge loss. We differ in the importance of per 60 and GF numbers - to each his own - there is no silver bullet. But I don't think it's reasonable to dismiss the number of opportunities (ice time), teammates while on the ice, and results (goals for and against) while on the ice. Context necessary of course but it's valuable information. As you said - Nuge's ice time under Eakins was extreme and that represents opportunities for points that other player did not get. He should get more points and ignoring that difference seems unreasonable to me. Simple fix is to draw a line on minimum ice time and provide context (linemates, competition, zone starts, etc etc).

Subjective is not unimportant - in fact - it can be decisive. It can also be evaluated and entire fields of qualitative research are devoted to this which the hockey stats people simply ignore or dismiss. It makes them looked utterly dated in term of methodology. The so-called "intangibles" are not unimportant but might in fact be the most useful area of unexplored research in sport. For me I dislike "weak" hockey players who do not make the best of their physical assets, display poor leadership and back down when challenged. This is poison to team-building and overall performance especially when it's displayed by the most highly paid members of a team. We know who Ference was talking about when he mentioned looking across the room and knowing certain guys would never have his back. Ference being past his "best before" date as a player doesn't make it any less true. Now the verbal about RNH has been different from certain guys on the team who are widely respected so I'm willing to give him another shot on that basis. But if he doesn't show up to camp bigger, stronger and hungrier then he won't be long for the Oilers dressing room.

As I said I don't want to debate the meaning of elite. Though 4th in league over an entire season might count as an extended period of elite goal production. But to be honest this is not really so important at this stage . The question for me is not is he elite it is whether the team is better with him than they would be without. I like the guy as a player which should be no secret to anyone here. But if the team is better following a trade than they are before it I don't really care who gets dealt. (Though I would draw the line at McDavid since all of us old guys know how extraordinary it is to be able to watch true greatness play on our team. )

Nuge is one of I believe three or four players whose future with the team will be determined by his play this year. I think he can contribute substantially to the teams success. Others disagree. If the disagreement is based on things I believe are factually incorrect I will try to present evidence to counter them.

The subjective parts of a debate are often highly influenced by our own bias. We literally see what we want, or at least we remember what we want to. The parts of the Nuge vs Getzlaf playoff "battle" that you describe I absolutely do not remember happening. But there is little concrete evidence I can present to counter this aside from dubious stast like hits so It is really not productive to debate these sorts of things in detail. It does not mean that competitiveness is not important. It just means that the degree to which we perceive a player to be competitive can vary substantially between people who watched the exact same games.

 

[Asiaoil]

You know I would really like it if RNH emerged as a leader and strong well-rounded player this year. I don't lay all the disappointments on him exclusively. Oiler mgmt/coaching was dysfunctional, zero veteran leadership to learn from, the Austins were developed in literally the worst environment imaginable. They dumped that contract on him after a good rookie year in the middle of rehabbing a destroyed shoulder and of course he signs it. Insane not to. But at some point a guy has to decide if he wants to win or he's satisfied just picking up the cheques and not getting nicked. If Nuge wants to be part of this team he's going to have to put himself in harms way and he's going to have to learn how to push back when leaned on. Guys smaller than him (Russell, Benning, Cags) showed no fear in the playoffs and gave no quarter. Tomorrow is always another days to do it right and I hope RNH takes the opportunity.

 

[Aerrol]

The subjective parts of a debate are often highly influenced by our own bias. We literally see what we want, or at least we remember what we want to. The parts of the Nuge vs Getzlaf playoff "battle" that you describe I absolutely do not remember happening. But there is little concrete evidence I can present to counter this aside from dubious stast like hits so It is really not productive to debate these sorts of things in detail. It does not mean that competitiveness is not important. It just means that the degree to which we perceive a player to be competitive can vary substantially between people who watched the exact same games.

This is so true. Always love your posts, but I wish we could get this paragraph stickied somewhere. It gets tiring seeing constant accusations of "did you even watch the game?" thrown around.

edit: What the hell is this "Austins" you are referring to, AsiaOil?

 

[Asiaoil]

edit: What the hell is this "Austins" you are referring to, AsiaOil?

Austins aka Steve Austin the $6 million man aka Hall, Eberle and RNH

 

[sportsdynasty]

I hope RNH does well next season so we can get a higher draft pick when we ship him off at the trade deadline.

 

[Aerrol]

Austins aka Steve Austin the $6 million man aka Hall, Eberle and RNH

... I'll be impressed if anyone got that without the explanation, but thanks. Makes sense.

 

[Asiaoil]

I encourage people to take a look at the Woodguy 2.0 post on lowetides blog today where he discusses Nuge as a "tough minute center".

http://lowetide.ca/2017/08/19/nuge-on-the-run/

The money line at the end is fully supported by data and reads "I love me some Nuge, but he hasn’t done anything for 2 years in the tough minute role to make me think he’s not replaceable". I pretty much agree with the entire analysis although I would bring negative qualitative factors such as leadership and toughness into play as well. If RNH has another year like the last two he's gone as that player is poor value for the salary and very replaceable.

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Meet HFOils new whipping boy!

After Nuge I bet most of these guys will be leading the march to run Draisaitl out of town next

 

[Aerchon]

Meet HFOils new whipping boy!

After Nuge I bet most of these guys will be leading the march to run Draisaitl out of town next

Nuge hasn't been playing like a world beater by any means but the kids being grossly underestimated.

People talk like he is a bust when the very obvious truth is he a solid NHL player at worst.

Was absolutely a big part of our playoff success and imo has been steadily improving as a two way center these last few years.

Many believe, me amount them, he is the type of players that takes longer to reach his peak.

 

[Asiaoil]

Nuge hasn't been playing like a world beater by any means but the kids being grossly underestimated.

People talk like he is a bust when the very obvious truth is he a solid NHL player at worst.

Was absolutely a big part of our playoff success and imo has been steadily improving as a two way center these last few years.

Many believe, me amount them, he is the type of players that takes longer to reach his peak.

That's hope and optimism to be honest. How was a guy with zero goals and only a few assist a big part of our playoff success? He's not a bust. Almost no one is saying that, and if they are, they're BSing. As the link I posted shows very clearly, he's not been anywhere near worth his salary as a tough minute center over the past two seasons. Eye and numbers agree, and if he play the same this coming season, he's off the team without a doubt. Is he totally useless? Of course not. But he's also not playing well enough to keep a spot on this team being ppaid $6 million with McDavid and Drai already far surpassing him offensively and coming up fast on the defensive side of things. He's in his 7th season as an NHLer this year, and by this point, he pretty much is what he is.

 

[belair]

That's hope and optimism to be honest. How was a guy with zero goals and only a few assist a big part of our playoff success? He's not a bust. Almost no one is saying that, and if they are, they're BSing. As the link I posted shows very clearly, he's not been anywhere near worth his salary as a tough minute center over the past two seasons. Eye and numbers agree, and if he play the same this coming season, he's off the team without a doubt. Is he totally useless? Of course not. But he's also not playing well enough to keep a spot on this team being ppaid $6 million with McDavid and Drai already far surpassing him offensively and coming up fast on the defensive side of things. He's in his 7th season as an NHLer this year, and by this point, he pretty much is what he is.

He matched up against the Thornton/Pavelski line for the majority of the SJ series from what I recall. Three of Pavelski's four points in that series were scored in the 7-0 game where the line match-ups were flipped. Obviously he didn't single-handedly shut the guy down but his line pushed the play in that series--he led the team in shots on goal. If you can shut-down Pavelski, you're significantly contributing to your team's success.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

That's hope and optimism to be honest. How was a guy with zero goals and only a few assist a big part of our playoff success? He's not a bust. Almost no one is saying that, and if they are, they're BSing. As the link I posted shows very clearly, he's not been anywhere near worth his salary as a tough minute center over the past two seasons. Eye and numbers agree, and if he play the same this coming season, he's off the team without a doubt. Is he totally useless? Of course not. But he's also not playing well enough to keep a spot on this team being ppaid $6 million with McDavid and Drai already far surpassing him offensively and coming up fast on the defensive side of things. He's in his 7th season as an NHLer this year, and by this point, he pretty much is what he is.

As to the bolded, while this is the case with many players it is not the case with all players.

This guy was drafted in 2010 and IMO RNH has always been the better player except for last season. After a previous career high of 44 points he put up a very impressive 81gp. 26-43-69. That player is Mikael Granlund.

Then we've got another player that was drafted in 2009 that had a previous career high of 20 goals and 50 points put up a very solid 31 goals and 60 points this last season. That player? Nazem Kadri.

Speaking of 7th NHL seasons, this guys previous high was 29 points (twice) in 48 and 49 games respectively and then in his 7th season he broke out for 26 goals and 58 points and followed that up with a 24 goal/64 point season. That player is Kyle Turris.

So it happens that guys break out a little later than others do. With Nuge, he needs the confidence in himself, an offensive push from the coach (enough of this using him as a shut down guy) and then go from there.