Player Discussion The Nuge Part II | He sucks. The player's alright though.

[Dorian2]

I want to see what changes Da Nuge will bring this year to have a strong comeback year. He's a friggin smart kid with a hockey IQ to match it. He knows he had a sub par season, as have many of the remnants of Eakins Past gone by. By way of trade. I'm holding onto the hope that one of them will rise out of the ashes.

Just call me Drama Queen.

I think Nuge deserves the respect garnered from his past with this team. I don't think another year is too much to ask for.....is it?

 

[Asiaoil]

He matched up against the Thornton/Pavelski line for the majority of the SJ series from what I recall. Three of Pavelski's four points in that series were scored in the 7-0 game where the line match-ups were flipped. Obviously he didn't single-handedly shut the guy down but his line pushed the play in that series--he led the team in shots on goal. If you can shut-down Pavelski, you're significantly contributing to your team's success.

Thorton is old as dirt and played on one leg (he shouldn't even have been playing really). Pavelski is smaller and slower - a good matchup for RNH. Look I get that RNH is a nice kid and all but he's just not worth the $6 million and that will get him traded within the year. He might play well this year, hope he does, but still doesn't mean he's a fit cap-wise or in terms of game. Chia will take care of the family business in due course.

 

[belair]

Thorton is old as dirt and played on one leg (he shouldn't even have been playing really). Pavelski is smaller and slower - a good matchup for RNH. Look I get that RNH is a nice kid and all but he's just not worth the $6 million and that will get him traded within the year. Chia will take care of the family business in due course.

Joe Pavelski is one of the premier forwards in the league. What that post was was simply a response to your question.

 

[Asiaoil]

Joe Pavelski is one of the premier forwards in the league. What that post was was simply a response to your question.

Not going to pointlessly argue with you all year only to say "told ya so" again next summer. Did that with Ebs and I'm not wasting my time again. RNH is a timid player (totally not a Chia type) who will be gone next summer. In case you haven't noticed, every other timid player that was a part of those disastrous pre-McDavid Oiler teams is gone and replaced with guys who can stand up for themselves and back up their team-mates. Even our small guys (Russell, Benning, Cags) are tough as nails now. If cashing his cheques and staying pretty is more important to RNH than getting nicked and putting himself in harms way to score, defend and win cups - he will be sent to a team where they accept that. That stuff doesn't fly on the Oilers any more and I hope he chooses to play like a winner.

So either he will have a good offensive year and get a great return, or he'll have a mediocre year like last the last two and he will garner a mediocre return. But he's gone one way or the other. The cap demands it. I hope he has a spectacular year so we can win the cup and sell him for a ton of good young assets that will help us win many more down the line. That's all I got to say.

 

[harpoon]

Joe Pavelski is one of the premier forwards in the league.

Nah. He's small and slow. Easy peasy matchup.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Nah. He's small and slow. Easy peasy matchup.

Nuge really got under his skin as well. Usually that doesn't happen unless someone is playing you hard and you are frustrated.

 

[Asiaoil]

Never said Pavelski was a chump - he's a very good player - just that he's he's smaller and not a great skater so an easier matchup. Especially with Thorton on one leg, Coulture playing with a wrecked face, Marleau very much on the decline, Hertl had knee surgery mid-year, and Tierney a 4th liner. The vaunted sharks center depth was shredded. Plus RNH was not alone on the ice. He did have 2 wingers and 2 dmen with him who might get a bit of credit. With most of their centers seriously banged up, we caught the sharks in a bad position, and Pavelski is not going to carry a team on his own. The Oilers were full value for the win but lets not kid ourselves about the context.

 

[Dorian2]

Never said Pavelski was a chump - he's a very good player - just that he's he's smaller and not a great skater so an easier matchup. Especially with Thorton on one leg, Coulture playing with a wrecked face, Marleau very much on the decline, Hertl had knee surgery mid-year, and Tierney a 4th liner. The vaunted sharks center depth was shredded. Plus RNH was not alone on the ice. He did have 2 wingers and 2 dmen with him who might get a bit of credit. With most of their centers seriously banged up, we caught the sharks in a bad position, and Pavelski is not going to carry a team on his own. The Oilers were full value for the win but lets not kid ourselves about the context.

So I guess your perspective is that RNH didn't do squat, he just looked better due to the competition lacking in certain areas and getting old.

That's a very weak argument AsiaOil...but it's your prerogative to remove credit where it's due to replace it with RNH's better play due to (apparently) weaker competion because of injuries, age, and size. Most of who are on top lines on top teams and bottom feeders.

I'll just disagree with you and leave it at that.

 

[belair]

 

[joestevens29]

I want to see what changes Da Nuge will bring this year to have a strong comeback year. He's a friggin smart kid with a hockey IQ to match it. He knows he had a sub par season, as have many of the remnants of Eakins Past gone by. By way of trade. I'm holding onto the hope that one of them will rise out of the ashes.

Just call me Drama Queen.

I think Nuge deserves the respect garnered from his past with this team. I don't think another year is too much to ask for.....is it?

Honestly in a cap world it could be. It's not that it he just had one sub par year, he really didn't have any above average years and always left us wanting more.

With that being said we have room for him right now, but if something came our way that PC likes you pull the trigger.

 

[Dorian2]

Honestly in a cap world it could be. It's not that it he just had one sub par year, he really didn't have any above average years and always left us wanting more.

With that being said we have room for him right now, but if something came our way that PC likes you pull the trigger.

I'm totally in line with that. Unless RNH can pull out something different this season apart from the last couple of years, his MacTavishdish Contract could effect the way Chia has to do business. I happen to have faith that RNH can still bring something more depending on any changes to the team, his own play, or player additions, but until he's no longer on the team, I'm behind him 100%. I seriously have no clue what Chia is planning for him, but I do know that McLellan is pretty happy with what he brings in certain key areas of the game.

 

[Asiaoil]

Self-awareness is a beautiful thing

 

[Asiaoil]

So I guess your perspective is that RNH didn't do squat, he just looked better due to the competition lacking in certain areas and getting old.

That's a very weak argument AsiaOil...but it's your prerogative to remove credit where it's due to replace it with RNH's better play due to (apparently) weaker competion because of injuries, age, and size. Most of who are on top lines on top teams and bottom feeders.

I'll just disagree with you and leave it at that.

RNH wasn't bad in the SJS series. He was fine. Look I get that people loved the three kids who they hoped would change the franchise. They didn't for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death. Now there is only one left. He's 3rd fiddle in terms of talent at center, and both his game and cap hit are out of line with what we need. Some people insist on hyping his performance/potential and ignoring his negatives. I posted a link to woodguys very detailed look at RNH over the last several years a bit back in this thread, and to summarize, he's played elite competition and did poorly in comparison to other "tough minute" centers. All that got was crickets from people who think differently because it doesn't support their narrative - off they went hyping his play in a 6 game series against a banged up team with a 0-0-0 -1 boxcar. I'll track RNH this season just like I did with Ebs last year, pointing out his good games, slagging the bad ones. I hope he plays well so we can get a good return for him when he's traded, but he's dead man walking on this team unless Connor or Leon is hit by a truck.

 

[sundaysleftovers]

I hope Nuge hit the gym hard this off-season and not hang out at the horse track all summer

He needs to bring it this year for us to be cup contenders! Excited to watch some good Oilers hockey this season! Haven't been pumped for a season to start in a long time! Heck yeah!

 

[Fourier]

RNH wasn't bad in the SJS series. He was fine. Look I get that people loved the three kids who they hoped would change the franchise. They didn't for a variety of reasons that have been discussed to death. Now there is only one left. He's 3rd fiddle in terms of talent at center, and both his game and cap hit are out of line with what we need. Some people insist on hyping his performance/potential and ignoring his negatives. I posted a link to woodguys very detailed look at RNH over the last several years a bit back in this thread, and to summarize, he's played elite competition and did poorly in comparison to other "tough minute" centers. All that got was crickets from people who think differently because it doesn't support their narrative - off they went hyping his play in a 6 game series against a banged up team with a 0-0-0 -1 boxcar. I'll track RNH this season just like I did with Ebs last year, pointing out his good games, slagging the bad ones. I hope he plays well so we can get a good return for him when he's traded, but he's dead man walking on this team unless Connor or Leon is hit by a truck.

I looked at the link you posted and if it is the one I checked out I did not see much of a detailed analysis to be honest. It was more of a summary of the content of PuckIq's data. On the surface it looks compelling as you stated but a more detailed look at these numbers was done by the guy who runs PuckIq here: (Thanks to tempesti2i for pointing this out).

https://oilersnerdalert.wordpress.com/2017/08/19/comparing-nuges-oranges-and-draisaitls-oranges/

He points out a significant quirk in these numbers which I had also noted before and that is the impact of the combination of Nuge and Russell on the numbers that Woodguy quotes. It's actually somewhat freaky and quite remarkable how much the pair seemed to be oil and water. I have pointed out that with Larsson statistically Nuge looks like a completely different player. In fact with anyone other than Russell and things do look very different.

Beyond that Nuge's numbers vs the elite in the west are also very different. I know you like the using GF/60 and GA/60 which I have issues with when comparing players in different roles. But what is striking is that vs the West Nuge's GF/60 is 2.2 nad his GA/60 is an extremely low 1.3. Yet vs the east they are respectively an anemic 0.70 and 2.70. The respective TOI are West 269 minutes and East 175 minutes so there is no doubt some small sample size issues here. But on the surface this suggests that the overall the numbers are skewed by some truly bad games vs a few eastern teams. And if I recall Nuge played some of the worst hockey of his career during an Eastern swing early in the year. So is this terrible stretch indicative of the player or is his much better performance over a larger sample size against the type of teams he is suppose to struggle against more representative of the player that his coach seems to speak of frequently. Hopefully this year makes this more clear.

http://puckiq.com/players/8476454

 

[Aerchon]

I love the center depth having Nuge brings. His cap hit is only marginally over what it should be and if he signed as a FA right now for the next 8 years I imagine he would easily get 6 if not more.

Its too bad cap hell starts next year and unless Nuge can take at least one more solid step I imagine he will be a cap casualty.

 

[Dorian2]

I looked at the link you posted and if it is the one I checked out I did not see much of a detailed analysis to be honest. It was more of a summary of the content of PuckIq's data. On the surface it looks compelling as you stated but a more detailed look at these numbers was done by the guy who runs PuckIq here: (Thanks to tempesti2i for pointing this out).

https://oilersnerdalert.wordpress.com/2017/08/19/comparing-nuges-oranges-and-draisaitls-oranges/

He points out a significant quirk in these numbers which I had also noted before and that is the impact of the combination of Nuge and Russell on the numbers that Woodguy quotes. It's actually somewhat freaky and quite remarkable how much the pair seemed to be oil and water. I have pointed out that with Larsson statistically Nuge looks like a completely different player. In fact with anyone other than Russell and things do look very different.

Beyond that Nuge's numbers vs the elite in the west are also very different. I know you like the using GF/60 and GA/60 which I have issues with when comparing players in different roles. But what is striking is that vs the West Nuge's GF/60 is 2.2 nad his GA/60 is an extremely low 1.3. Yet vs the east they are respectively an anemic 0.70 and 2.70. The respective TOI are West 269 minutes and East 175 minutes so there is no doubt some small sample size issues here. But on the surface this suggests that the overall the numbers are skewed by some truly bad games vs a few eastern teams. And if I recall Nuge played some of the worst hockey of his career during an Eastern swing early in the year. So is this terrible stretch indicative of the player or is his much better performance over a larger sample size against the type of teams he is suppose to struggle against more representative of the player that his coach seems to speak of frequently. Hopefully this year makes this more clear.

http://puckiq.com/players/8476454