The NHL is Eyeing Austin Texas instead of Houston - Oak View agrees to Build New Arena!!!

[AtlantaWhaler]

okay, so Cali has 3 franchises, but they are not a hotbed of a hockey market, we know why those teams are there and what the goal was. Anaheim struggles with attendance in the bottom 3rd...Sharks not far from them either.....you are having people leaving from typically non traditional markets heading to Austin...all I am saying is people need to look a bit deeper into Austin and understand the amount of transplants there and from where....to expect all these people to jump on board to a NHL team might be pushing it a bit...I said in maybe 5-10 years this is something to look at, but I have fears with this market as supporting this team right now or in the next 2-3 years....

Well, a good model for an expansion team is to go where the people are going. People have been migrating south for over 30 years now. This past year, 8 of the top-10 top metros for in-migration were in the south from Phoenix to Florida (Seattle and Vegas other 2). I don't see this changing anytime soon.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Well, a good model for an expansion team is to go where the people are going. People have been migrating south for over 30 years now. This past year, 8 of the top-10 top metros for in-migration were in the south from Phoenix to Florida (Seattle and Vegas other 2). I don't see this changing anytime soon.

isn't that how Dallas acquired the territory, Cedar Park is Austin, and the Stars ran the franchise when awarded

 

[KevFu]

Houston has no hockey infrastructure. A few hockey rinks here and there. Not many. The rink in Sugar Land is so bad, even the NA3HL team left for College Station. A relocated
NHL team would have no place to practice. Good luck impressing the NHL that Houston is "hockey ready".

This sounds a lot like the Long Island "you can't build an arena because the infrastructure is bad.... the roads are terrible and can't handle it." If you build the arena, you have to fix the roads which are a problem and everything gets better.


Creating a hockey infrastructure in places where there isn't hockey infrastructure is how you create interest, future customers, future draft picks, etc. The increase in NHL Draftees from California, Florida, Texas, Arizona, Tennessee, Georgia and the Carolinas has grown from a handful before the 1990s to a few hundred since BECAUSE the NHL put teams in those places, and the teams created that infrastructure, and kids got into it. Like Austen Matthews (born in San Ramon, California; moved to Scottsdale, Arizona as an infant and grew up going to Coyotes games).

 

[Anisimovs AK]

Why not Houston? Like Dallas, once they establish that market it would immediately be in the top half of the league in revenue. Teams in cities with that kind of population typically get large local media deals almost by default

 

[who_me?]

Demographics also play a part in it. The NHL, unfortunately, is a league barring little appeal to folks who aren't white. Austin, especially for a southwestern city, is real real white.

Austin is now over 50% Hispanic and will probably end up like San Antonio in 20-30 years (70-80% Hispanic.)

So, not very white. The ones still there only care about the stupid college sports.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Austin is now over 50% Hispanic and will probably end up like San Antonio in 20-30 years (70-80% Hispanic.)

So, not very white. The ones still there only care about the stupid college sports.

Dunno where you're getting that, but Austin is not "over 50% Hispanic" by any stretch of the imagination, it's only about a third. The non-Hispanic white population in the city proper is 48%, which is really damn high for an actual city-limits population of a large American city, let alone in the South/Southwest.

Houston and San Antonio, respectively, are at 24-25%. Here's the latest census estimates on Austin/Travis County, Houston/Harris County, and San Antonio/Bexar County.

Now, census stats are imperfect for comparing these things, because different cities and states draw their lines much differently. "Pittsburgh" for example, only includes a really confined area, so outlying towns that are just a few miles from downtown and culturally indistinguishable from the city, like Wilkinsburg, are cut out of Census counts for the city proper. Meanwhile, "Nashville" and many other southern cities stretch on FOREVER and have reaches that would definitely be considered separate suburbs were the cities up North.

So everything is an approximation, of course, which is why you can also look at counties for certain cities to get a better sense. It's an unfortunate fact for NHL viability, and the game will grow slowly in cultural appeal as more cultures are represented, but demographics play a huge part in team viability.

The theory used to be HUGE CITY/BIG SUBURBS=BEST MARKET, but I think teams in the Atlanta, Phoenix, and Miami areas have shown that it's more about developing a strong team in an area that'll more readily adapt it into its culture. Income, size, demographics, relevant industries, you name it: Austin is a lot more like Nashville, perhaps the league's finest Southern success, than it is Houston or San Antonio, which more closely resemble the league's largest expansion/relocation failures.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

Austin is now over 50% Hispanic and will probably end up like San Antonio in 20-30 years (70-80% Hispanic.)

So, not very white. The ones still there only care about the stupid college sports.

Because...they don’t have a pro team to call their own?

 

[Aero 75]

Austin is now over 50% Hispanic and will probably end up like San Antonio in 20-30 years (70-80% Hispanic.)

So, not very white. The ones still there only care about the stupid college sports.

Might need to check your sources.

"As of 2010, U.S. Census Bureau estimated that in the Austin–Round Rock–San Marcos MSA there were 1,719,289 people. The racial makeup of the metropolitan area was 72.9% White, 7.4% African American, 0.8% Native American, 4.8% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 10.9% from other races, and 3.2% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 31.4% of the population."

Greater Austin - Wikipedia

 

[Aero 75]

New arena in Austin could seat 17,000. Basketball configuration for UT "will be about 10,000 seats with the upper decks closed off
for every game, creating an "intimate" atmosphere".

‘An innovative deal’: How Texas will get a $300 million basketball arena at no cost to taxpayers, boosters | Hookem.com

 

[who_me?]

Might need to check your sources.

"As of 2010, U.S. Census Bureau estimated that in the Austin–Round Rock–San Marcos MSA there were 1,719,289 people. The racial makeup of the metropolitan area was 72.9% White, 7.4% African American, 0.8% Native American, 4.8% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 10.9% from other races, and 3.2% from two or more races. Hispanic or Latino of any race were 31.4% of the population."

Greater Austin - Wikipedia

From your Wiki link:

Racial composition	2010[99]	1990[42]	1970[42]	1950[42]
White	68.3%	70.6%	87.2%	86.6%
—Non-Hispanic	48.7%	61.7%	73.4%[100]	n/a
Black or African American	8.1%	12.4%	11.8%	13.3%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)	35.1%	23.0%	14.5%[100]	n/a
Asian	6.3%	3.0%	0.2%	0.1%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The source you cited is from 2010.... 8 years ago! A lot has changed since then... and the non-Hispanic white was only 48.7% in 2010 ... There are a lot of Hispanics who may have 10% of Spanish ancestry and consider themselves "white" to distinguish themselves from the descendants of the Aztecs... also it made the news a couple of years ago that the Hispanic population of Austin went over 50% for the first time, and it will continue to accelerate to end up like San Antonio's demographics... 70-80% Hispanics. The MLS will do well in Austin, but not the NHL.

 

[who_me?]

Houston and San Antonio, respectively, are at 24-25%. Here's the latest census estimates on Austin/Travis County, Houston/Harris County, and San Antonio/Bexar County.

From Wiki:

Racial composition	2010[44]	1990[26]	1970[26]	1950[26]
White	72.6%	72.2%	91.4%	92.8%
Non-Hispanic whites	26.6%	36.2%	47.7%	n/a
Black or African American	6.9%	7.0%	7.6%	7.0%
Asian	2.4%	1.1%	0.3%	0.2%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)	63.2%	55.6%	44.9%	n/a

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Again, these numbers are for San Antonio from 8 years ago.... the numbers are closer to 70 - 80% Hispanic. Have you ever driven through San Antonio? It looks like a city in Mexico.

 

[who_me?]

Because...they don’t have a pro team to call their own?

They do have a pro team, it's called the Longhorns and their colors are burnt orange and white.

Can you imagine an NHL game in Austin on the same day as a U of T football game? The NHL arena would be empty.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

From your Wiki link:

Racial composition	2010[99]	1990[42]	1970[42]	1950[42]
White	68.3%	70.6%	87.2%	86.6%
—Non-Hispanic	48.7%	61.7%	73.4%[100]	n/a
Black or African American	8.1%	12.4%	11.8%	13.3%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)	35.1%	23.0%	14.5%[100]	n/a
Asian	6.3%	3.0%	0.2%	0.1%

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

The source you cited is from 2010.... 8 years ago! A lot has changed since then... and the non-Hispanic white was only 48.7% in 2010 ... There are a lot of Hispanics who may have 10% of Spanish ancestry and consider themselves "white" to distinguish themselves from the descendants of the Aztecs... also it made the news a couple of years ago that the Hispanic population of Austin went over 50% for the first time, and it will continue to accelerate to end up like San Antonio's demographics... 70-80% Hispanics. The MLS will do well in Austin, but not the NHL.

The source is from 8 years ago because that's when the last census was. They can estimate on a year by year basis but it's just that, an estimate. And even still, there's no chance that Austin went from 31% Hispanic to 50% Hispanic like you said it was in 8 years.

Here you go, from the 2017 Census Estimates

Population | Greater Austin Profile | Economic Development | Austin Chamber of Commerce

688,322 Hispanics in a metro area of 2,115,827. A makeup of 32.5% Hispanic.

From Wiki:

Racial composition	2010[44]	1990[26]	1970[26]	1950[26]
White	72.6%	72.2%	91.4%	92.8%
Non-Hispanic whites	26.6%	36.2%	47.7%	n/a
Black or African American	6.9%	7.0%	7.6%	7.0%
Asian	2.4%	1.1%	0.3%	0.2%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)	63.2%	55.6%	44.9%	n/a

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Again, these numbers are for San Antonio from 8 years ago.... the numbers are closer to 70 - 80% Hispanic. Have you ever driven through San Antonio? It looks like a city in Mexico.

Who cares about San Antonio? San Antonio is not Austin.

They do have a pro team, it's called the Longhorns and their colors are burnt orange and white.

Can you imagine an NHL game in Austin on the same day as a U of T football game? The NHL arena would be empty.

Texas football has played 3 true home games since the NHL season started, 2 of them started at 2:30, the other at 7. It would be pretty easy to schedule a Saturday night game that doesn't conflict or just ask for no Saturday home games when Texas has a Saturday home game. Really not that difficult.

 

[KevFu]

So... would the NHL investing in marketing the sport to Hispanic fans be a good idea?

 

[Aero 75]

So... would the NHL investing in marketing the sport to Hispanic fans be a good idea?

I've been to hockey games all across the state of Texas and there have always been Hispanic fans in attendance. In San Antonio and Corpus Christi, the
number of Hispanic fans was quite large. Considering that San Antonio draws good attendance for Rampage games, and Corpus Christi led the NAHL
in attendance for several years, it appears Hispanics ALREADY attend hockey games.

 

[Aero 75]

They do have a pro team, it's called the Longhorns and their colors are burnt orange and white.

Can you imagine an NHL game in Austin on the same day as a U of T football game? The NHL arena would be empty.

Can you imagine an NHL game in Columbus on the same day as an Ohio State football game. The NHL arena would be empty.

 

[TheLegend]

Can you imagine an NHL game in Columbus on the same day as an Ohio State football game. The NHL arena would be empty.

The NHL can and will schedule around all of that. NCAA schedules for most sports are done years in advance.

 

[varsaku]

The NHL can and will schedule around all of that. NCAA schedules for most sports are done years in advance.

Hockey still a top sport in Ohio. Hockey is barely brought up here in Houston atleast.

 

[TheLegend]

Hockey still a top sport in Ohio. Hockey is barely brought up here in Houston atleast.

You could have said the same thing about Las Vegas not too long ago.

 

[Rich Nixon]

From Wiki:

Racial composition	2010[44]	1990[26]	1970[26]	1950[26]
White	72.6%	72.2%	91.4%	92.8%
Non-Hispanic whites	26.6%	36.2%	47.7%	n/a
Black or African American	6.9%	7.0%	7.6%	7.0%
Asian	2.4%	1.1%	0.3%	0.2%
Hispanic or Latino (of any race)	63.2%	55.6%	44.9%	n/a

[TBODY] [/TBODY]
[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Again, these numbers are for San Antonio from 8 years ago.... the numbers are closer to 70 - 80% Hispanic. Have you ever driven through San Antonio? It looks like a city in Mexico.

1. I was referring to the percentage of non-Hispanic white people with those 25% numbers

2. The latest estimates were literally linked in the section you quoted.

Read what you're quoting before responding. This has turned into a moderate thread derail because you incorrectly assumed I was wrong about one point I was making in a much larger argument, were corrected, and followed up by misinterpreting the correction.

 

[rfournier103]

Having actually been to Austin quite a few times myself, I think it would be a far better fit than Houston.

Austin is growing, and there is a HUGE segment of the population that are transplants from hockey-playing areas already. That’s only going to increase over time. Austin is an amazing city with lots to do and a vibrant social scene. If I had to live anywhere other than Massachusetts, I’d pick Austin in a heartbeat.

As far as competing with Texas Longhorns football is concerned, they would only compete with NHL regular season hockey on Saturdays in October and November. Maybe a bowl game in December or January, but that’s only one game and the season is over until September. I’d say the bigger competition would be high school ball on Friday nights. But again, after November, the NHL would stand alone in Austin.

 

[DowntownBooster]

If it was up to me, I would put a team in Houston and Quebec City. But, that's the diehard WHA fan in me coming out. In reality, neither will happen.

I would like to see Houston get a team as well. The Aeros were a great team in the WHA and I used to enjoy the rivalry our Winnipeg Jets had with Houston during that time. Don't give up hope for a team in Houston.

 

[varsaku]

You could have said the same thing about Las Vegas not too long ago.

I think it’s too early to judge Vegas. We will have to see if it worked out once the new team excitement dies down and how their fair once the raiders move in.

 

[Cellee]

Get Dallas squared away first, their building looks empty every game

 

[edog37]

Having actually been to Austin quite a few times myself, I think it would be a far better fit than Houston.

Austin is growing, and there is a HUGE segment of the population that are transplants from hockey-playing areas already. That’s only going to increase over time. Austin is an amazing city with lots to do and a vibrant social scene. If I had to live anywhere other than Massachusetts, I’d pick Austin in a heartbeat.

As far as competing with Texas Longhorns football is concerned, they would only compete with NHL regular season hockey on Saturdays in October and November. Maybe a bowl game in December or January, but that’s only one game and the season is over until September. I’d say the bigger competition would be high school ball on Friday nights. But again, after November, the NHL would stand alone in Austin.

the league doesn't schedule many Friday games....