The Next Wave(Will LA find skill?)

[LAKings88]

The Kovy experiment has made me think a lot about this team.

Offense seems stifled in LA. Has been for a long time.

Kopi is streaky and won’t ever be a score at will game in game out guy. The group as a whole lacks finishers.

They collectively overcame it with buy in and grit. But bloated contracts have limited the quality of peripheral players.

All that being said to get to my point.

Are they a defense first structure above all else team because they lack talent or is it something else? Is it a philosophy that has run its course? Broken?

If they do get skilled guys, will they be nerfed in obedience to an outdated structure?

I thought there was a change in philosophy but I’m second guessing it because of how Kovy failed in LA.

Tired of lack of finish. Tired of perimeter play. Tired of boring hockey.

Will it change? Should it change? Can’t ignore defense but can’t keep up with abysmal offense.

What would you say needs to change the most? Looking for some hope for the future.

Click to read more...

 

[LAKings88]

I guess to simplify my thoughts:

Does LA’s system nerf offense or do they play the system because the finish isn’t there?

 

[ibleedkings]

I often ask myself how Crosby or Ovi would have done offensively on the Kings. I'm a bit worried with a kid like Kaliyev who pretty much just scores goals (not complaining). What is the kings dead offense mentality gonna do to him and some of our other prospects?

I don't have the answers, but something needs to change. I was under the impression when Sutter was canned, the offense would open up. It did with Stevens and died again right after.

 

[BallPointHammer]

Right now the Kings don't have the talent to score enough or the toughness and determination to shut down their opponents. On top of that is a lack of passion and fearlessness in there personality as a team. The solution to these issues may be an overhaul to the roster way beyond what is generally expected.

 

[LAKings88]

Right now the Kings don't have the talent to score enough or the toughness and determination to shut down their opponents. On top of that is a lack of passion and fearlessness in there personality as a team. The solution to these issues may be an overhaul to the roster way beyond what is generally expected.

Well said.

I still think Kopi and Doughty are part of the solution but maybe a guy like Brown should be moved. Not sure if he has any value left tho.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

This is a good post. There honestly needs to be an outside auditor to come in and assess why almost 100% of the players that leave LA, put up better numbers or even thrive...
versus almost every player that comes to LA, cannot put up numbers like they had; and / or not thrive. I think the last acquired players to do as well or better, where Stoll
and Greene....Williams, Carter, Gaborik (short lived) Mitchell, Regher, and Richards (short lived) have been the only ones I can think of, that played as good as they had
on their former teams.

Why do the Kings sorely lack in skill and offense? Why do they put a player like Prokhorkin with 4th line players and then say "we need to get him going", when
he's a skill player and the Great One would not score playing with the Lewis', Wagner's, etc? Why was Kovalchuk never put on line 1?

The second line is a joke. Carter makes every player he plays with, worse / ineffective / survive on their own (3 years running. 7 even strength assists in 56 gms )

Since they would never bring in an outside auditor, they need to restructure everything. Since the top young prospects are 1-3 years away, they need to
retool and do what the Avs did, bringing in NHL capable players like Donskoi, Burakowski types, (even getting Nuchuhkin out of Russia)
that do not cost a ton and can actually play NHL hockey. and the Luff's, Lizottes and Wagners go back to the AHL.
It is like they should use some of the #2, #3, #4 picks to get NHL players. Seriously. Trading a few of these picks will return NHL players. And still have the best rated prospects in their system.

They have Turcotte, Vilardi, the #1 2020 (Lafren, Byfield, Stutzle, Drysdale, Rossi) Kupari, Fagemo, Kaliyev, Thomas,
Bjornfot, Anderson, Clague etc etc etc. By dealing a #2, #3, #4 and adding another player in deals, they can get NHL players back. Brown and Carter
should not be back. The only young players ready for 20-21 are probably Vilardi, Grundstrom and JAD...and Bjornfot. Would not be shocked to
see Fagemo make it...he over delivers everywhere. It's anti-King-like and hard to get your head around.

The PP is horrid and Todd and Sturm must change it. The one game Kopi was high slot and directing things from there and had 2 shots
over 100 mph (think one hit the post) ...was the best it has looked in 4+ years...and then he went back on the half wall. WHY? That was the biggest revelation
of this season and they moved him back on the wall...is this because they are tanking? This move alone would get the PP up another 3-5%.

It is almost like Lombardi's first off season again, where there are so many holes, he signed Handzus, Nagy, Calder, and Stuart. He had to bring in NHL level players. The current Kings need to bring in 2 NHL players next season. They need to sign at least 1 TOP College free agent and perhaps get a top European player even.

 

[The Tikkanen]

If you were to have a 10 player shootout against another NHL team can you pick 10 players from the Kings to do it? That's a problem. This team lacks creativity, skill, emotion, talent and heart.Their heart used to cover up the lack in other areas but now a player like Brown is dragging the team down. The Kovy situation should show ownership the whole thing needs to be blown up because even Tmac couldn't figure out how to use him. Claude Julien figured it out before Game 1.

 

[ibleedkings]

PJB, I really do believe they are tanking. The changes you have proposed on here, along with a lot of us saying the same thing has never been attempted by the coaching staff. They can't be that stupid, there's just no way.

 

[AmadiosAmigos]

Its easy to be frustrated as a fan.

Since the start of December, the Kings PP is ranked top 5 in the NHL clicking at almost a 25% rate. Yet we still have people suggesting it needs to be changed because the results dont appear to be there. People seemingly only look at the overall body of work versus the progression.

The recent LA-TOR trade had a number of people on social media talking about how bad the Kings lost the trade. I guess on paper you could argue that, but the value people, especially Kings fans seemed to miss was that it made us worse immediately and thats what we need. Losses at this time are not a bad thing, we want the best possible chances at the highest draft picks.

LA definitely seems to be a spot where offense goes to die, but its easy to forget that the West coast plays different styles then the East coast teams. Kovy always put up good numbers playing a heavy East coast schedule in NJ. Then he was invisible in the Stanley Cup finals against LA. Now in Montreal, he's playing a schedule agains the majority of East coast teams, which dont play nearly as physical or the same type of game.

 

[Choralone]

The Kings are just plain shitty right now due to a talent-deprived roster. If the Kings are still focusing on defense right now, it's because it's the only thing they can do to stay competitive - just like other bad teams do when they have nothing else to hang their hat on. Once we get some talent on board, I'm confident they will have a more dynamic offensive game. I wouldn't describe McLelland's Sharks as defense-first, for good and for ill.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

This is a good post. There honestly needs to be an outside auditor to come in and assess why almost 100% of the players that leave LA, put up better numbers or even thrive...
versus almost every player that comes to LA, cannot put up numbers like they had; and / or not thrive. I think the last acquired players to do as well or better, where Stoll
and Greene....Williams, Carter, Gaborik (short lived) Mitchell, Regher, and Richards (short lived) have been the only ones I can think of, that played as good as they had
on their former teams.

Why do the Kings sorely lack in skill and offense? Why do they put a player like Prokhorkin with 4th line players and then say "we need to get him going", when
he's a skill player and the Great One would not score playing with the Lewis', Wagner's, etc? Why was Kovalchuk never put on line 1?

The second line is a joke. Carter makes every player he plays with, worse / ineffective / survive on their own (3 years running. 7 even strength assists in 56 gms )

Since they would never bring in an outside auditor, they need to restructure everything. Since the top young prospects are 1-3 years away, they need to
retool and do what the Avs did, bringing in NHL capable players like Donskoi, Burakowski types, (even getting Nuchuhkin out of Russia)
that do not cost a ton and can actually play NHL hockey. and the Luff's, Lizottes and Wagners go back to the AHL.
It is like they should use some of the #2, #3, #4 picks to get NHL players. Seriously. Trading a few of these picks will return NHL players. And still have the best rated prospects in their system.

They have Turcotte, Vilardi, the #1 2020 (Lafren, Byfield, Stutzle, Drysdale, Rossi) Kupari, Fagemo, Kaliyev, Thomas,
Bjornfot, Anderson, Clague etc etc etc. By dealing a #2, #3, #4 and adding another player in deals, they can get NHL players back. Brown and Carter
should not be back. The only young players ready for 20-21 are probably Vilardi, Grundstrom and JAD...and Bjornfot. Would not be shocked to
see Fagemo make it...he over delivers everywhere. It's anti-King-like and hard to get your head around.

The PP is horrid and Todd and Sturm must change it. The one game Kopi was high slot and directing things from there and had 2 shots
over 100 mph (think one hit the post) ...was the best it has looked in 4+ years...and then he went back on the half wall. WHY? That was the biggest revelation
of this season and they moved him back on the wall...is this because they are tanking? This move alone would get the PP up another 3-5%.

It is almost like Lombardi's first off season again, where there are so many holes, he signed Handzus, Nagy, Calder, and Stuart. He had to bring in NHL level players. The current Kings need to bring in 2 NHL players next season. They need to sign at least 1 TOP College free agent and perhaps get a top European player even.

Even Stoll had a 68 point season before coming to LA, and JDub had 76 and 67 point seasons. There was absolutely an 'offense tax' during the Cup years, clear as day, which was always one of our arguments for guys like Kopitar and Doughty being some of the best in the NHL. That was one of my questions re: development--I'm certain coaching those guys to be 'two-way' players had an impact on our championships, but I think there's an argument to be made that even Anze and Drew didn't reach their offensive potential.

However, there's ZERO reason for that offense tax now, especially given the defense sucks ass as well. It's absolutely going to be a process, and this is TMac's first year, so it's a little hard for me to dumpster him yet--but there's certainly a cloud hanging over this organization right now and it's got so many issues that it's tough to diagnose which one is the 'source' or where to start. It's apparently not drafting, and AEG has been good as far as owners go, so it's gotta be somewhere between development, management, coaching. Edit: And the players themselves, obviously. None of those factors were making Ilya whiff on clear looks from the slot while he was here.

To answer the OP, right now anyway, they're just not good enough as a team:



I think that's a testament to the coaching and the lack of visible talent ALL OVER the ice--can't finish, clearly losing assignments on D (not a systematic problem, an individual skill and trust problem), have a hard time getting big saves.

In theory, we add young talent into the existing structure and we'll start to see improvement--but like you see with our youngsters now, it's a tradeoff--they'll make mistakes. The big question is "is the organization okay with this" and supposedly yes, but the repeated benchings of Prokhorkin et al in favor of guys playing on rails says "not currently."

All the current vets have been playing bubble hockey their whole careers and it's too late to teach an old dog new tricks. Time to Ol Yeller them imo over the next couple of seasons, particularly the gutless guys pitching bad examples currently. But I definitely have my concerns about whether we can weed this out with the crop of youth coming up.

 

[SlimCharles]

Its easy to be frustrated as a fan.

Since the start of December, the Kings PP is ranked top 5 in the NHL clicking at almost a 25% rate. Yet we still have people suggesting it needs to be changed because the results dont appear to be there. People seemingly only look at the overall body of work versus the progression.

The recent LA-TOR trade had a number of people on social media talking about how bad the Kings lost the trade. I guess on paper you could argue that, but the value people, especially Kings fans seemed to miss was that it made us worse immediately and thats what we need. Losses at this time are not a bad thing, we want the best possible chances at the highest draft picks.

LA definitely seems to be a spot where offense goes to die, but its easy to forget that the West coast plays different styles then the East coast teams. Kovy always put up good numbers playing a heavy East coast schedule in NJ. Then he was invisible in the Stanley Cup finals against LA. Now in Montreal, he's playing a schedule agains the majority of East coast teams, which dont play nearly as physical or the same type of game.

That's always how it is with casual sports fans. They don't understand that teams go through ups and downs, or really the business involved in professional sports. They expect their favorite team to be good every year no matter what, and all of their favorite players to play into their early 40's and never leave.

 

[kings11]

I guess to simplify my thoughts:

Does LA’s system nerf offense or do they play the system because the finish isn’t there?

Both... but with Vilardi, Turcotte, Kaliyev, Fagemo, JAD, Kupari and this upcoming pick offer a much needed diversification of skill sets from physicality, size, speed, skill, grit, leadership, hockey IQ and a few other things..
A team with Kopitar, Doughty, Carter, Toffoli, Brown and evening Quick shouldn’t be this low in the standings.. what we lack is depth, we haven’t developed it and we haven’t signed it..
Iafallo, Amadio, Grundstrom, Lizotte, Wagner, Kempe and evening JAD are bottom 6 depth players that just now are getting full on opportunities. Unfortunately, we have them in all our lines and that isn’t enough..
“IF”, IF we were to land LaFreniere, that’s would literally cut our rebuild in half. Add in Vilardi whose looking like everything we ever hoped for and we could be looking really good really soon..
But for now that’s all a dream! For now...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Philosophy doesn't matter if the players don't care.

Kopitar - 32
Iafallo - undrafted
Toffoli - he'll probably do something once he's gone, and we'll all cry about it, but he's not a lead dog
Doughty - 30
Carter - 35
Brown - 35
Kempe - end of the 1st round
Walker - undrafted
Lizotte - undrafted
Amadio - 3rd round
Roy - 7th round
Prokhorkin - 4th round, 8 years ago
Wagner - 4th round

There's nothing here. They're all either old, or mid round picks/undrafted. That's 3 in their top 10 scorers that were undrafted. You can't do that. Maybe if you have multiple top 5 picks who are in the prime of their careers as well. If the odds are against you getting any players the lower you go in the draft very quickly after at least the 1st round, if not the top half of the 1st round, then you can't have the roster they have and expect anything. Maybe if all the vets hadn't won yet, they might be hungry, but that's not how it is.

The only players in the organization that matter are those drafted in or after 2017. If Vilardi makes the team next year and puts up 50 points, that might rejuvenate some guys. The vets might then say, ok, we have this young guy driving the bus, lets try and help. Until something like that happens though, this is a dead franchise, and everything they do on the ice means nothing. The system doesn't matter. The lines don't matter. The results don't matter. The process doesn't matter. They really are just killing time. They've been told they can't compete anymore. They're not expected to compete anymore.

17-18, the guys finally got rid of Sutter, Brown was free, they felt like they had something to prove again. They should've been sunk by the Carter injury, but Kopitar was just too good. Then Vegas. Then whatever happened between that series and Sept 2018 that made the entire team not give a damn anymore. Now the vets don't have it in them to prove anyone wrong anymore, and there's no youth with real talent ready to push the team yet.

Is there one player on the roster that will be a significant piece if/when the team is competitive again? Even Kempe is becoming a long shot for that. Until they have something to build around, I'm not sure why anyone pays attention to much going on at the moment. They're playing the equivalent of pickup hockey on the weekend, they're just getting paid a lot to do it. There's no renting a rink for our betters. They're just hanging out with the guys.

This is why Vilardi is very important. And if he's not the first answer, that means we're probably looking at Turcotte next, and then whoever they get this year, but that will push things back another year or two. If Vilardi can play, he will not be on the 4th line, like all the other non-elite young players. When you have real talent, regardless of what the system or philosophy is, you play.

Want hope for the future? Vilardi is your make or break, for the next little while.

 

[kingsboy11]

I guess to simplify my thoughts:

Does LA’s system nerf offense or do they play the system because the finish isn’t there?

Yes


I think part of the older group is struggling to adapt to a new system. I don't think its any coincidence that arguably our best line the entire year has been Lizotte, Kempe and Wagner all of whom are youngish players. While the finish isn't necessarily there, its still quite an effective line and could show us what McLellan is looking for.

Unfortunately we have to be patient and wait for Vilardi and Turcotte and Kaliyev to make the jump. I think its essential to ship out Toffoli, Lewis, and Martinez not just to capitalize on them as assets, but mostly just to open up roster spots. Got to start turning over the roster now as this season as shown that some guys don't deserve to be here anymore.

 

[Steve Zissou]

I think part of that besides systems is that our vets are not driving the bus. They are out to lunch and it's not in their DNA to help rally the troops.

It's been clear as day the past 2-3 years when all of a sudden we loose leadership and they (Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Quick) are now looked upon to lead.

Also, we have vets and young kids. No depth, no tweeners. And minus a good group of leadership and you have what you have.

 

[Schmooley]

The coach says they arent skilled enough to score. Yet Frk, while not a world class player by any means, was nearly a point per game player in his brief stint and they sent him down in favor of Lewis.
Prokhorkin was starting to get going. Putting up points and getting a better sense of the north american game. One slip up and hes been jerked around and put on the fourth line when allowed to play. Its funny cause I regularly see kopitar, carter, doughty martinez and even brown and iaffalo lose their men in the defensive zone and they dont get benched. Prokhorkin even saved a goal the game before his slip up and it didnt mean a damned thing to his coach.

I am not saying the Kings have fire power to win a cup right now. But they do have players in the organization that can finish if put in a place to succeed. They choose to keep trotting out kopitar, carter, lewis, toffoli, brown, iaffalo (who just started a hot streak and will probably die down) in the same line combinations time and time again.
I do like mclellan, though Im not sure our defense has the talent and iq to play man on man defense especially against good offensive teams. Seems like every time theres a lapse it ends up in the net. Maybe just a box and bend not break would be better for this group. They dont have the size and strength for that style either though...

 

[SFKingshomer]

They don’t have a next wave. Their best players are old and their talented kids are in Junior or the AHL. They don’t have any current roster players in the 21-26ish age group that are anything special.

 

[Bandit]

I think part of that besides systems is that our vets are not driving the bus. They are out to lunch and it's not in their DNA to help rally the troops.

It's been clear as day the past 2-3 years when all of a sudden we loose leadership and they (Brown, Kopitar, Doughty, Quick) are now looked upon to lead.

Also, we have vets and young kids. No depth, no tweeners. And minus a good group of leadership and you have what you have.

I put most of it on Kopitar and Doughty. Brown was stripped of the C so I can see why he’s not invested in a leadership role anymore and while I think Quick cares a lot, there’s only so much you can do from the net.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

It can't be the system, the evil Lord Lombardi is no longer

 

[fivehole32]

The lack of talent is immense on this team. No game breaking types the other team has to "keep an eye on" and no guys to stir the drink like Williams. Iafallo is a Williams lite and thats why he plays with Kopitar imo.

 

[kilowatt]

Philosophy doesn't matter if the players don't care.

Kopitar - 32
Iafallo - undrafted
Toffoli - he'll probably do something once he's gone, and we'll all cry about it, but he's not a lead dog
Doughty - 30
Carter - 35
Brown - 35
Kempe - end of the 1st round
Walker - undrafted
Lizotte - undrafted
Amadio - 3rd round
Roy - 7th round
Prokhorkin - 4th round, 8 years ago
Wagner - 4th round

There's nothing here. They're all either old, or mid round picks/undrafted. That's 3 in their top 10 scorers that were undrafted. You can't do that. Maybe if you have multiple top 5 picks who are in the prime of their careers as well. If the odds are against you getting any players the lower you go in the draft very quickly after at least the 1st round, if not the top half of the 1st round, then you can't have the roster they have and expect anything. Maybe if all the vets hadn't won yet, they might be hungry, but that's not how it is.

The only players in the organization that matter are those drafted in or after 2017. If Vilardi makes the team next year and puts up 50 points, that might rejuvenate some guys. The vets might then say, ok, we have this young guy driving the bus, lets try and help. Until something like that happens though, this is a dead franchise, and everything they do on the ice means nothing. The system doesn't matter. The lines don't matter. The results don't matter. The process doesn't matter. They really are just killing time. They've been told they can't compete anymore. They're not expected to compete anymore.

17-18, the guys finally got rid of Sutter, Brown was free, they felt like they had something to prove again. They should've been sunk by the Carter injury, but Kopitar was just too good. Then Vegas. Then whatever happened between that series and Sept 2018 that made the entire team not give a damn anymore. Now the vets don't have it in them to prove anyone wrong anymore, and there's no youth with real talent ready to push the team yet.

Is there one player on the roster that will be a significant piece if/when the team is competitive again? Even Kempe is becoming a long shot for that. Until they have something to build around, I'm not sure why anyone pays attention to much going on at the moment. They're playing the equivalent of pickup hockey on the weekend, they're just getting paid a lot to do it. There's no renting a rink for our betters. They're just hanging out with the guys.

This is why Vilardi is very important. And if he's not the first answer, that means we're probably looking at Turcotte next, and then whoever they get this year, but that will push things back another year or two. If Vilardi can play, he will not be on the 4th line, like all the other non-elite young players. When you have real talent, regardless of what the system or philosophy is, you play.

Want hope for the future? Vilardi is your make or break, for the next little while.

It feels to me like the team felt their last shot at a cup as a group came in 17-18 and they collectively said, “Well, we had a good run, but all good things must come to an end.”

I can’t think of anything else that could have happened.

Here’s to the future: Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Anderson-Dolan, Thomas, Anderson, and this year’s first- and second-round picks. We need like six of them to make the team and play above replacement level.

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Won't be long until Doughty demands a trade. I wouldn't blame him one bit.

 

[RossLonsberryFan]

It feels to me like the team felt their last shot at a cup as a group came in 17-18 and they collectively said, “Well, we had a good run, but all good things must come to an end.”

I can’t think of anything else that could have happened.

Here’s to the future: Turcotte, Vilardi, Kupari, Bjornfot, Kaliyev, Fagemo, Anderson-Dolan, Thomas, Anderson, and this year’s first- and second-round picks. We need like six of them to make the team and play above replacement level.

I wish everyone could get out to Ontario (California) and see the future unfolding. Gabriel Vilardi is the real deal. And just wait till he gets to spend this summer working with a professional skating coach.

His vision and puck skills are just fun to watch. He’s even fun to watch during warmups. He spends time skating around with a puck bouncing of his hockey stick like a lacrosse player. Then he spends time skating around his teammates slipping the puck through their legs and retrieving it on the opposite side. This is a kid who was restricted from doing the things he’s loved most for two years. And he’s just getting started.

The future looks very bright from the city just below the San Bernardino mountains.
He has tremendous chemistry with his defensemen too. You can tell how much he enjoys playing with Clague, Strand and Bjornfot. A truly multidimensional player whose upside is unlimited.

Like I said. Go to out to Ontario on a Saturday (or Sunday) and see for yourselves. The Ontario Mills Mall is only a quarter of a mile east of the arena, so you can get out their early and go eating, shopping or catch a movie early and go to the game that evening.

 

[bouncesonly]

I wish everyone could get out to Ontario (California) and see the future unfolding. Gabriel Vilardi is the real deal. And just wait till he gets to spend this summer working with a professional skating coach.

His vision and puck skills are just fun to watch. He’s even fun to watch during warmups. He spends time skating around with a puck bouncing of his hockey stick like a lacrosse player. Then he spends time skating around his teammates slipping the puck through their legs and retrieving it on the opposite side. This is a kid who was restricted from doing the things he’s loved most for two years. And he’s just getting started.

The future looks very bright from the city just below the San Bernardino mountains.
He has tremendous chemistry with his defensemen too. You can tell how much he enjoys playing with Clague, Strand and Bjornfot. A truly multidimensional player whose upside is unlimited.

Like I said. Go to out to Ontario on a Saturday (or Sunday) and see for yourselves. The Ontario Mills Mall is only a quarter of a mile east of the arena, so you can get out their early and go eating, shopping or catch a movie early and go to the game that evening.

Not to poop on the ahl, but imma poop on it a little bit....it’s the ahl. The game’s slower.