The Luongo farewell tour

[Asheville]

He done.

Since beating the Flyers on Nov. 13, it's been a cringefest (with the exception of that odd shutout vs. Boston).

Click to read more...

 

[mja]

This is going to be interesting. His actual salary drops to 1.6, 1, & 1 million for the next three seasons. I'm sure they can find something to LTIR him on, but that doesn't help out the Panthers very much, right? Instead of eating up ~4.5 in cap space they'd have to work around for 3 more years, it would be better for them if he just retired and to take the million dollar or so recapture penalty for those 3 seasons.

It sucks for Vancouver though. I can't find a good recapture penalty calculator on the internet anymore, but I think they'd be on the hook for a little over 3 million in dead cap space for 3 seasons if he were to retire at the end of the season. If he tries to go another season or two, it gets better for Florida but worse for Vancouver.

I've always been curious as to whether or not the NHL would actually impose an 8 million dollar penalty on Vancouver if Luongo retires with a year left on his deal. In a twisted way, that's the scenario I'm rooting for, just to see how it plays out. Sorry, Nucks fans.

 

[Kevs Security]

I've always been curious as to whether or not the NHL would actually impose an 8 million dollar penalty on Vancouver if Luongo retires with a year left on his deal. In a twisted way, that's the scenario I'm rooting for, just to see how it plays out. Sorry, Nucks fans.

LMAO @Vancover Good luck with those Petterson, Boeser etc resignings.

 

[Fataldogg]

Its funny. After his first 5 games people were saying he was incredible. Now he has a bad couple of games and he is finished? Which is it? A lot of knee jerk reactions about the quality of Luongos play.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

The league created a loophole.

And then it signed off on contracts signed by teams exploiting that loophole.

It created retroactive rules later to punish the use of that loophole.

It has walked back some penalties (e.g. modifying draft pick penalty on the Devils) or continued to allow other loopholes (allowing dodgy LTIRing or trading of LTIRed contracts where players are effectively retired to allow teams to reach the cap floor).

If the Canucks are made to eat the full penalty on Lu's contract, I'll probably just take a break from the NHL product. That's not from a place of anger or anything. I'll just find somewhere else to put my time and money (same thing I did during the DPE, when the game did little for me). Not much point being a fan if the rules change repeatedly on the fly - and particularly to the detriment of your team, but perhaps not others.

EDIT: Which is to say, if this is farewell time, I hope he can be LITRed and we can just move on.

 

[Deadpool8812]

Arizona will be all over that contract

 

[Bonzo111]

The league created a loophole.

And then it signed off on contracts signed by teams exploiting that loophole.

It created retroactive rules later to punish the use of that loophole.

It has walked back some penalties (e.g. modifying draft pick penalty on the Devils) or continued to allow other loopholes (allowing dodgy LTIRing or trading of LTIRed contracts where players are effectively retired to allow teams to reach the cap floor).

If the Canucks are made to eat the full penalty on Lu's contract, I'll probably just take a break from the NHL product. That's not from a place of anger or anything. I'll just find somewhere else to put my time and money (same thing I did during the DPE, when the game did little for me). Not much point being a fan if the rules change repeatedly on the fly - and particularly to the detriment of your team, but perhaps not others.

EDIT: Which is to say, if this is farewell time, I hope he can be LITRed and we can just move on.

You’ll be ok man

 

[CascadiaPuck]

You’ll be ok man

Well, yeah. That's the point. Walking away wasn't an issue before and it wouldn't be again.

EDIT: Realizing you might've meant that the Canucks will be okay on this one. Hope so.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Canucks better have to pay recapture if this happens. Devils have been paying IK's recapture for years

 

[Pens x]

I’m sure the Coyotes would take his contract since it isn’t very much real money, but a decent cap hit.

He can play with Zetterberg

 

[SladeWilson23]

The league created a loophole.

And then it signed off on contracts signed by teams exploiting that loophole.

It created retroactive rules later to punish the use of that loophole.

It has walked back some penalties (e.g. modifying draft pick penalty on the Devils) or continued to allow other loopholes (allowing dodgy LTIRing or trading of LTIRed contracts where players are effectively retired to allow teams to reach the cap floor).

If the Canucks are made to eat the full penalty on Lu's contract, I'll probably just take a break from the NHL product. That's not from a place of anger or anything. I'll just find somewhere else to put my time and money (same thing I did during the DPE, when the game did little for me). Not much point being a fan if the rules change repeatedly on the fly - and particularly to the detriment of your team, but perhaps not others.

EDIT: Which is to say, if this is farewell time, I hope he can be LITRed and we can just move on.

Don't you think you're being a little overdramatic?

 

[StreetHawk]

This is going to be interesting. His actual salary drops to 1.6, 1, & 1 million for the next three seasons. I'm sure they can find something to LTIR him on, but that doesn't help out the Panthers very much, right? Instead of eating up ~4.5 in cap space they'd have to work around for 3 more years, it would be better for them if he just retired and to take the million dollar or so recapture penalty for those 3 seasons.

It sucks for Vancouver though. I can't find a good recapture penalty calculator on the internet anymore, but I think they'd be on the hook for a little over 3 million in dead cap space for 3 seasons if he were to retire at the end of the season. If he tries to go another season or two, it gets better for Florida but worse for Vancouver.

I've always been curious as to whether or not the NHL would actually impose an 8 million dollar penalty on Vancouver if Luongo retires with a year left on his deal. In a twisted way, that's the scenario I'm rooting for, just to see how it plays out. Sorry, Nucks fans.

But that's the key part that everyone misses. When the NHL created the recapture penalty, what it ultimately did was ensure that the player WOULD NOT retire because now they can get the final few million dollars of that contract. Just like Hossa and Zett. Both on LTIR. None of the guys who signed these back diving contracts have retired. Guys were bought out like Lecavalier, Bryz, Erhroff, Richards, etc via the amnesty buyout. Others ended up on LTIR like Hossa, Franzen, Zett, etc. Only teams eating a recapture are NJ because Kovy left to the KHL and LA with M. Richards because they tried to terminate his contract and had to reach a settlement with him. But no one has retired.

Loungo, like you said still has $3.6 million owed to him. If he retires he doesn't get that money, which he is entitled to.

The dynamic for the Panthers is that Luongo could very well be the most recognizable Panther right now, since he's been with the franchise for a decade. If he is placed on their LTIR, he'd likely end up doing some type of community relations work for them. For salary, the Canucks are picking up $800K of it annually, so the Panthers owe only $1.2 million of the remaining $3.6 million. So, they would be paying $400K per year for that position.

Main issue would be the cap. Panthers are currently set to be at $62 million for next season. So, they have $20 million to spend if they wish. They have 11 UFA/RFA on their roster. Outside of say Petrovic, who is UFA ( and likely signs for $3 million plus elsewhere) I don't see anyone who is due a big increase. They have 14 players including Luongo signed for next season to make that $62 million cap. So, take Lu out and it's 13 players. They need to sign 10 more guys for $20 million, but all fo these guys are non top 6 F and non top 4 D.

 

[rfournier103]

He done.

Since beating the Flyers on Nov. 13, it's been a cringefest (with the exception of that odd shutout vs. Boston).

That shutout must’ve been as sweet as any win he’s ever had. See ya ‘round, Bob.

 

[Asheville]

Its funny. After his first 5 games people were saying he was incredible. Now he has a bad couple of games and he is finished? Which is it? A lot of knee jerk reactions about the quality of Luongos play.

After those first 4 games, he looked like a Vezina contender. Then the Blue Jackets eviscerated him and it's been a dramatic plummet.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Don't you think you're being a little overdramatic?

Nah, not really. If Luongo retires before his contract expires, depending on the timing, the Canucks could face a huge salary cap recapture penalty.


(@mja notes this further up in this thread too.)

If the league allows other loopholes to persist unpunished or allows other punishments to lapse, but then follows through and makes the Canucks lose, say, nearly 10% of their cap space at a time where they're trying to re-sign some of their future core, it kind of crystallizes the idea that different teams will receive different levels of accommodation. And if that's true, then I'll probably divert my interest and dollars. I probably wouldn't tune out the team entirely or anything, but if your team is going to be on the wrong side of moving goalposts and inconsistent enforcement of rules, it has a way of diminishing your enthusiasm.

 

[StreetHawk]

Nah, not really. If Luongo retires before his contract expires, depending on the timing, the Canucks could face a huge salary cap recapture penalty.


(@mja notes this further up in this thread too.)

If the league allows other loopholes to persist unpunished or allows other punishments to lapse, but then follows through and makes the Canucks lose, say, nearly 10% of their cap space at a time where they're trying to re-sign some of their future core, it kind of crystallizes the idea that different teams will receive different levels of accommodation. And if that's true, then I'll probably divert my interest and dollars. I probably wouldn't tune out the team entirely or anything, but if your team is going to be on the wrong side of moving goalposts and inconsistent enforcement of rules, it has a way of diminishing your enthusiasm.

Name a player who "retired" from hockey with a back diving deal. Retired, as in, not just from the NHL, but all of hockey, from KHL, SHL, etc. No one does. I think when these deals were first signed, the players were expecting to retire with a few million left on their deals.

But, then the recapture penalty came into effect. So, now the player does not have to retire. He can get all of his money. So, there is no benefit to the player to retire anymore as it actually hurts his team. And since the NHL allowed the Pronger deal to get traded, it also created an out for teams with these contracts. So, they get unloaded to AZ, CAR, NJ, and now Ottawa would be a candidate team to pick up a low salary but big cap hit contract to help them meet the floor.

 

[sexydonut]

Anyone else think Luongo can bounce back once again? He's had bouts of bad play throughout his career, but no one has ever doubted his commitment and professionalism.

 

[mja]

LMAO @Vancover Good luck with those Petterson, Boeser etc resignings.

Vancouver will be fine to sign their key guys. It's the depth that this would hamper.

But that's the key part that everyone misses. When the NHL created the recapture penalty, what it ultimately did was ensure that the player WOULD NOT retire because now they can get the final few million dollars of that contract. Just like Hossa and Zett. Both on LTIR. None of the guys who signed these back diving contracts have retired. Guys were bought out like Lecavalier, Bryz, Erhroff, Richards, etc via the amnesty buyout. Others ended up on LTIR like Hossa, Franzen, Zett, etc. Only teams eating a recapture are NJ because Kovy left to the KHL and LA with M. Richards because they tried to terminate his contract and had to reach a settlement with him. But no one has retired.

Loungo, like you said still has $3.6 million owed to him. If he retires he doesn't get that money, which he is entitled to.

The dynamic for the Panthers is that Luongo could very well be the most recognizable Panther right now, since he's been with the franchise for a decade. If he is placed on their LTIR, he'd likely end up doing some type of community relations work for them. For salary, the Canucks are picking up $800K of it annually, so the Panthers owe only $1.2 million of the remaining $3.6 million. So, they would be paying $400K per year for that position.

Main issue would be the cap. Panthers are currently set to be at $62 million for next season. So, they have $20 million to spend if they wish. They have 11 UFA/RFA on their roster. Outside of say Petrovic, who is UFA ( and likely signs for $3 million plus elsewhere) I don't see anyone who is due a big increase. They have 14 players including Luongo signed for next season to make that $62 million cap. So, take Lu out and it's 13 players. They need to sign 10 more guys for $20 million, but all fo these guys are non top 6 F and non top 4 D.

This situation is a bit different than others in the past, is the thing. In someone like Hossa's case, it greatly behooved Chicago for Hossa to go on LTIR rather than to just have him retire. That's not the case for the Panthers. If he were to retire after this season instead of go on LTIR, it would give them a lot more flexibility in making moves since their part of the recapture penalty would only be about a million (they'd actually be gaining 3.5 million or so in space). I greatly doubt that they would find keeping him around for PR purposes compelling reasoning.

And your cap analysis is...interesting. They're at $77 million right now and will have to sign players to raises. They don't have any big UFAs coming off of the books. That 3.5 million in extra cap space could help them to resign Hoffman in a year, as an example.

As for Luongo, he's made over $95 million dollars in his career, I'm sure he wouldn't mind making the extra $3.6 million over the next three seasons, but I don't know that it'll be enough to keep him from hanging them up officially if he feels it's time. The only real reason to do that beyond the money would be to help your team out of loyalty, but that doesn't apply here. The Panthers would benefit more if Luongo just straight up retired.

The only party that really needs Luongo to play out the contract or go on LTIR is the Canucks, and frankly I don't know that either the Panthers or Luongo would feel any obligation to help Vancouver out on that.

 

[Strangelove]

LMAO @Vancover Good luck with those Petterson, Boeser etc resignings.

Stay classy, Toronto.

 

[mja]

Stay classy, Toronto.

Yeah, I don't know if I'd be throwing those kinds of stones if I was living in that particular glass house.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

He's had a hell of career. You can say whatever you want about him but it's going to be weird not seeing him rob players.

 

[Kevs Security]

Yeah, I don't know if I'd be throwing those kinds of stones if I was living in that particular glass house.

I'm a Canes fan, fellas.

 

[Strangelove]

I'm a Canes fan, fellas.

Stay classy, Torontonian Canes fan in a Marner jersey.

 

[puckpilot]

LMAO @Vancover Good luck with those Petterson, Boeser etc resignings.

Glass houses man. Glass houses.

The funny thing is it might be better for Vancouver if he retires early. Then the cap recapture hit gets spread over multiple years instead of one big hit for one year. Two mil each year for four years is probably easier to deal with than eight for one depending on how contracts play out.

But for now, the Canucks have plenty of space, especially with the cap going up, contracts expiring, and Petterson's ELC ending on the last year of Luongo's contract.

It's not like there's a 20 million plus cap hit waiting to drop onto their heads in one year. Now that would be a problem, especially for a contender trying to build. Would be heartbreaking if someone had to be traded.

 

[Seanaconda]

Nah, not really. If Luongo retires before his contract expires, depending on the timing, the Canucks could face a huge salary cap recapture penalty.


(@mja notes this further up in this thread too.)

If the league allows other loopholes to persist unpunished or allows other punishments to lapse, but then follows through and makes the Canucks lose, say, nearly 10% of their cap space at a time where they're trying to re-sign some of their future core, it kind of crystallizes the idea that different teams will receive different levels of accommodation. And if that's true, then I'll probably divert my interest and dollars. I probably wouldn't tune out the team entirely or anything, but if your team is going to be on the wrong side of moving goalposts and inconsistent enforcement of rules, it has a way of diminishing your enthusiasm.

They could always trade for him back and let him be their backup or ltir him if Florida won't