The Low Hockey IQ Myth (Darnell Nurse)

[oobga]

Nurse just tries to do too much and needs to calm his game down. Every situation that comes his way he probably has a dozen options that pop into his head, and he's so physically able that he could do any one of them if he choose to. But, the time it takes to decide can make him look indecisive out there.

If he can never mature his game enough to make quicker decisions, then sure, you could categorize that under low hockey IQ, but he's so young you can't make the call today that he will never get better. Wish we could bring an early 30's Chara into our org right now to guide a guy like Nurse along. I hope Chia is really paying attention to the coaching and monitorship in the org that we need to develop our young D.

 

[Mc5RingsAndABeer]

People wrote off Larsson as a complete bust. Give defensemen time. They'll look horrible early on, particularly if they're playing on a poor defensive corps.

 

[Dorian2]

I certainly agree with Chaotic Orange on this one. This kind of problem (low hockey iq) is something that can only be looked at over a number of seasons if a young player does not progress. (I think Yakupov is a decent example of this).

Nurse did not display a low hockey IQ when he was on the shut down pairing at the world juniors. Rather he looked like he had a good IQ.

If by year three he is not looking better then maybe one can make a comment then but sticking essentially a rookie with that label is silly.

This here is a good post.

I've followed Nurse from when he was drafted and he's been looking better every time he gets out there over time. He's a promising player, and you don't have to be worried about IF he'll get there, it's WHEN IMO.

His hockey IQ is fine and will be later as well.

 

[Digger12]

It boggles my mind that Davidson got the treatment Nurse should've been getting.

Oh wait it's the Oilers.

To be fair, the main reason Davidson was treated differently than Nurse was because at the same age as Nurse, Davidson was playing as an overage 20 year old in the WHL. He wasn't even good enough to play AHL/ECHL yet.

Nurse is considered the Oilers best dman prospect, while Davidson at the same age was a fringe late round pick who was on nobody's radar to realistically make the team under he bloomed late this year as a 24 year old.

Not every player needs the exact same development path to make the NHL, one size does not fit all.

And it's not like the Oilers went out of their way to have Nurse on the team this year, he didn't make the team out of camp, was called up a little later and did play well for the first while before he got overexposed due to the blue line being nailed with key injuries.

I still have belief that we have a good player here, he IMO has too good a pedigree to not succeed at this level. The question will be: Is he a top pairing dman or a middle pairing dman ultimately? Only time will tell.

 

[IAGTTAYM]

No, it's not a "myth", it's just a different opinion based on watching a player play hockey.

 

[oilinblood]

http://thehockeywriters.com/darnell-nurse-the-next-ones-nhl-2013-draft-prospect-profile/

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/prospects/darnell-nurse/

http://forecaster.thehockeynews.com/hockeynews/hockey/player.php?8838

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...-profile-for-edmonton-oilers-first-round-pick

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/nhl-draft-prospects-no-7-darnell-nurse/

I feel that this 'Nurse has low hockey IQ' trash is almost entirely an invention of HFBoards, perpetuated by fans looking for any excuse to rip on the Oilers, and unfortunately some members of this board have bought it. If you hear a lie often enough, right?

He was a rookie that looked like a rookie last season - in his first PRO season, not just NHL -, but most scouting reports I was able to dig up actually list hockey sense, own-zone play, and positioning among Nurse's STRENGTHS. That's not a low IQ player.

i passionately agree with you.

honestly we judge our whole team a little too viciously.

Its like the eberle crap...the guy scores goals. he wasnt drafted as a two way forward or power forward. he is what he is. he has known faults and its the GM and coaches job to know those faults and surround him with players and play him in manners that get the best out of him

its not a hard concept.

I think people get their target so that they can be proven "right" when a guy has a tough time or they try to protect one player by bashing another.


entire pages of threads i glance over due to this crap

 

[Mikey71]

...and it isn't only that he tried to do too much. It was WAY more that he was forced to have to try to do too much. He will always try to do as much as he possibly can to help the team. Ekblad had Campbell, Jones had Weber, Nurse had.....crickets. Nobody was and currently is in place to really show him what to do in certain scenarios. Young skilled forwards can often rely on creativity and simply having their man on the way back. Young defencemen get exposed time and time again if they don't have that guy to help them on the ice and on the bench. Not bringing in the right guy for Nurse will end up being a wasted opportunity. It is in his blood to succeed.

 

[Young Lions*]

i passionately agree with you.

honestly we judge our whole team a little too viciously.

Its like the eberle crap...the guy scores goals. he wasnt drafted as a two way forward or power forward. he is what he is. he has known faults and its the GM and coaches job to know those faults and surround him with players and play him in manners that get the best out of him

its not a hard concept.

I think people get their target so that they can be proven "right" when a guy has a tough time or they try to protect one player by bashing another.

entire pages of threads i glance over due to this crap

Maybe it's because fans also overhype prospects, driving expectations up to the point where they are impossible to meet. Remember when Eberle was supposed to be a consistent 35-goal, 80-point? Because I do.

So yeah, when I see a raw rookie like Nurse being projected to be the next Pronger and declared untouchable on the basis of one middling rookie campaign, it's hard not to want to throw cold water on things to stop people getting ahead of themselves.

Nurse has a lot of potential, sure. But there's a lot of miles to go before he can actually help the team and I'm not sure we can afford to wait for him.

 

[Aerrol]

I can't speak for Hfboards overall, but here at least I've barely seen Nurse's overall hockey IQ questioned. Rather, what I've seen come up is his OFFENSIVE IQ. This is where I have my own doubts. I'm fairly confident he'll develop into a nice second pairing dman but I've never seen the offensive instincts to become a true number one.

 

[oljimmy]

If you asked me which Oiler made the most low-IQ, boneheaded plays last year, it would not be Nurse, not by a long shot, and he was a rookie. I'm not naming names, but... skate hard into the O-zone, panic, flashy spin move, throw the puck away blindly... remind you of anyone? "Boneheaded" barely begins to describe those plays, and they happened almost once per game last season.

 

[Young Lions*]

If you asked me which Oiler made the most low-IQ, boneheaded plays last year, it would not be Nurse, not by a long shot, and he was a rookie. I'm not naming names, but... skate hard into the O-zone, panic, flashy spin move, throw the puck away blindly... remind you of anyone? "Boneheaded" barely begins to describe those plays, and they happened almost once per game last season.

Funny because the quintessential Nurse move this year was skate the puck up ice, cut wide, fire low percentage shot towards the net, miss by a mile, then hustle back to try and break up the play as it heads back into the Oilers zone.

 

[McspOiler]

This is what really worries me. The slow, lumbering defenseman is being phased out (look no further than Martin/Polak) in favour of quick, puck moving defensemen. On a team starved for puck movers Nurse isn't addressing this problem in the slightest.

He's the best skating d man on the team the hell are you talking about slow lumbering....

 

[MessierII]

Nurse is a puck transporter not a puck mover.

 

[Digger12]

Nurse is a puck transporter not a puck mover.

That's fair. He had numerous plays where he did a good job carrying the puck out of his zone and to the other end of the ice, and that would be the precise moment where you could almost smell the burning electrical tape in his head as he tried to figure out what to do next.

It's something he should improve with time, but I'm certainly not expecting him to become a 40+ point dman. IMO a 30+ point dman who can dominate defensively is his top end, and that's completely fine. There's plenty of very good dmen who scored 30-39 points this year.

 

[Lacaar]

Put him in the minors and let him percolate till he's 30.

The minor's makes you a smarter hockey player.

Who cares if he's better than other options.

 

[Young Lions*]

Put him in the minors and let him percolate till he's 30.

Yeah because that's what people are saying.

The minor's makes you a smarter hockey player.

Yeah the minors are useless, just bring every 18 year old srraight from junior to the NHL and let them figure it out. that's what all the successful teams do.

Who cares if he's better than other options

On a healthy roster, he's not better than the other options. Not even close.

And if you're talking about last season, the fact he was the best option doesn't mean he was a good option.

 

[Lacaar]

Yeah because that's what people are saying.



Yeah the minors are useless, just bring every 18 year old srraight from junior to the NHL and let them figure it out. that's what all the successful teams do.



On a healthy roster, he's not better than the other options. Not even close.

And if you're talking about last season, the fact he was the best option doesn't mean he was a good option.

He was the best option what part of that don't you get?

He outplayed the other defencemen in training camp.

What is with this AHL ***** development.. do you truly think Nurse would be a much better player this year if he played 20 mins a night in the AHL over the 18 min a night he got in the NHL?

What the hell would the AHL teach him?

Give me some specifics. He'd become smarter? he'd learn to stick handle better?
Somehow your shot gets more accurate in that league?
Riding the bus gives you more time to study the game time?

I've said all along I understand the AHL reasoning when the Ice time in the NHL is limited.

But I don't buy this bull **** argument that the AHL magically makes a hockey player better when the Ice time is the same.

All it does is allow us to realise the player can't hack the NHL without them playing in the NHL.

A luxury we have not been fortunate to receive with our player depth.

But I think it's a giant load of crap that a player would turn out any differently if they played same games and minutes in the AHL as they did in the NHL.

They go their whole lives going up against the best competition possible to make them better players. Then it gets reversed?

Should we start sending Midget AAA players down the Midget AA to get better at hockey by lowering the competition level?

Some players just stop improving... stop trying to find a reason because it's likely different for every individual.

 

[Zaddy]

He was the best option what part of that don't you get?

He outplayed the other defencemen in training camp.

What is with this AHL ***** development.. do you truly think Nurse would be a much better player this year if he played 20 mins a night in the AHL over the 18 min a night he got in the NHL?

What the hell would the AHL teach him?

Give me some specifics. He'd become smarter? he'd learn to stick handle better?
Somehow your shot gets more accurate in that league?
Riding the bus gives you more time to study the game time?

I've said all along I understand the AHL reasoning when the Ice time in the NHL is limited.

But I don't buy this bull **** argument that the AHL magically makes a hockey player better when the Ice time is the same.

All it does is allow us to realise the player can't hack the NHL without them playing in the NHL.

A luxury we have not been fortunate to receive with our player depth.

But I think it's a giant load of crap that a player would turn out any differently if they played same games and minutes in the AHL as they did in the NHL.

They go their whole lives going up against the best competition possible to make them better players. Then it gets reversed?

Should we start sending Midget AAA players down the Midget AA to get better at hockey by lowering the competition level?

Some players just stop improving... stop trying to find a reason because it's likely different for every individual.

Confidence is a big thing in sports and has a tremendous effect on performance and, in turn, development. Playing big minutes in the NHL when you're not ready will make your overwhelmed, lose confidence and you'll be forced to simplify your game. Many players who were rushed to the NHL has become guys that just play a very simple game instead of realizing their potential as point-producing impact players. Nurse playing in the AHL would give him a better chance of getting comfortable with playing against men without being overwhelmed by their speed, size and skill. It would also allow him bigger offensive opportunities to work on his offensive game. Overall playing in a lesser league is just way less stressful and generally speaking you can afford making mistakes a little bit more in a league like the AHL compared to the NHL. Being allowed to make mistakes is a big key in improving in any aspect in life and the same goes for hockey.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

If you asked me which Oiler made the most low-IQ, boneheaded plays last year, it would not be Nurse, not by a long shot, and he was a rookie. I'm not naming names, but... skate hard into the O-zone, panic, flashy spin move, throw the puck away blindly... remind you of anyone? "Boneheaded" barely begins to describe those plays, and they happened almost once per game last season.

Agree. Nurse may have questionable IQ but he's a rookie and when you got a player (who's name must not be named as low IQ on this forum) who's supposed to be one of the "best players" on your team and a young vet, whom Nurse plays with and watches game in and game out you almost can't blame him for playing a bit with low IQ. When your supposed "best player" (not including McDavid) is playing so irresponsibly and with low IQ you subconsciously start to play that way yourself.

Gretzky was so great and smart for his time that the rest of the team became so much smarter and became better players just from playing and practicing with him. He who must not be named has almost an opposite effect on our team if you ask me and should definitely be traded this summer.

 

[Young Lions*]

He was the best option what part of that don't you get?

He outplayed the other defencemen in training camp.

I thought I was pretty clear: Nurse being the best of a bad lot doesn't make him good.

What is with this AHL ***** development.. do you truly think Nurse would be a much better player this year if he played 20 mins a night in the AHL over the 18 min a night he got in the NHL?

What the hell would the AHL teach him?

Give me some specifics. He'd become smarter? he'd learn to stick handle better?
Somehow your shot gets more accurate in that league?
Riding the bus gives you more time to study the game time?

I have to wonder: if throwing young players straight into big minutes in the NHL from
junior is such a great tactic, why don't more teams use it?

I've said all along I understand the AHL reasoning when the Ice time in the NHL is limited.

But I don't buy this bull **** argument that the AHL magically makes a hockey player better when the Ice time is the same.

Yes because the level of competition in the two leagues is obviously identical.

All it does is allow us to realise the player can't hack the NHL without them playing in the NHL.

Nurse showed he can't hack big minutes in the NHL. It might have been a different story in the A.

But I think it's a giant load of crap that a player would turn out any differently if they played same games and minutes in the AHL as they did in the NHL.

They go their whole lives going up against the best competition possible to make them better players. Then it gets reversed?

The AHL is a higher level of competition than junior. What you're suggesting is basically the same as taking Bantam players and putting them in Junior A for the challenge.

 

[Young Lions*]

Agree. Nurse may have questionable IQ but he's a rookie and when you got a player (who's name must not be named as low IQ on this forum) who's supposed to be one of the "best players" on your team and a young vet, whom Nurse plays with and watches game in and game out you almost can't blame him for playing a bit with low IQ. When your supposed "best player" (not including McDavid) is playing so irresponsibly and with low IQ you subconsciously start to play that way yourself.

Your obsession with Hall is really strange. You have 163 posts on this board. At least 122 are about Hall.

 

[THall4]

and thats his fault? doesn't mean his IQ is low..

he should've been in the AHL learning the pro game like most 20 year old defensemen do

but Oilers

lol a rookie defence man playing over his head!! No that doesn't happen here...

Nurse IMO should be in Bakersfield for all of 2017...give him time to develop. TM stated several times last year, their preference was to keep him down there..but lack of depth forced their hands.

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

His instincts with the puck have been questioned since before he was drafted. Hockey IQ gets thrown around but he is prone to rushing up the ice without having any semblance of a plan. He looked like he understood the defensive side of the game pretty well to me.

I disagree he was rushed. He could make quick enough decisions and handled the physicality very well.

Playing a slower game isn't going to teach him to make right decisions. It didn't in junior, although the extra years took some risk out of his game which was beneficial. He is already quick enough to follow the pace at the NHL - why not learn from the highest level coaches you have?

It's people's insane expectations that are the problem. He's a defensive dman. Look at all the top 10 drafted defensive dman recently and Nurse is well within realistic expectations for his +3 draft year.

It's the insane expectations that lead to the disappoint.

 

[ottawahabs]

Since you guys have seen them play much more than I have and have seen them both develop, I was wondering who you thought would put up more points in the future between Nurse and Klefbom? The low IQ accusations are worrisome I find.

Trying to figure out who I should drop in a keeper's pool between the two.

 

[The Safe Play]

I would have Nurse play top minutes in the AHL next year. I think Klefbom will bring more offence than Nurse will in their careers. I think Nurse will be similar to Myers but less offence more nastiness. Edit: Myers puts up less offence than I thought.