The Leafs Have Improved!!!

[Holymakinaw]

The Leafs cannot move ahead until they have a first line center. Everything should be put into trying to acquire or draft one. The problem is Nonis is not the guy to make that happen.

It's not at all possible that they just did, when they drafted William Nylander?

 

[Trapper]

And over the past ten years, I'VE BEEN RIGHT!
100% CORRECT!!!!

So IT'S BEEN PROVEN that the things I criticize are REAL PROBLEMS!!!!

So it's not that I'm negative. It's that the TEAM IS NEGATIVE!!! And those that discuss the team RATIONALLY come across as "negative".

You, on the other hand, are CONSTANTLY wrong, make HUMILIATING threads like the "no sustainable" thread, yet never learn your lesson.

So, once again, speaking RATIONALLY...
by adding cheaper players with less offense and equal (at best) defense... I think the team has NOT improved.

IT'S JUST SO EMBARRASSING!!!!

Guaranteed that 50% of this board will think we are bound for the playoffs after October. Signings will be praised and anything unsustainable will be laughed at.
Then the rest of the league catches up. Currently the Leafs are sprinters trying to run a marathon. We shall see what happens. There are some things to be positive about but this team is far from a contender and until proven otherwise a bubble team. Not a bottom 3 team but anywhere from 7th to 16th.

 

[LeafsFIO*]

We are contending. I don't know why people suggest otherwise. Who will beat us Dallas?? We shut down spezza for years. Chicago? Kessel and JVR can take Kane and Toews. LA we beat last year and i dont see anyone else in the East that can truly keep up with us. our window is now

 

[DPyro]

The Leafs cannot move ahead until they have a first line center. Everything should be put into trying to acquire or draft one. The problem is Nonis is not the guy to make that happen.

The Leafs already drafted a 1st line centre (Nylander). Give him a year in the AHL and he'll be ready.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Actually the money was gone to either cover the $3 mil combined raises of Kessel and Phaneuf new deals or lost resigning their own RFA Gardiner, Franson and Reimer the last 2 headed to arbitration.

McClement played more PK time than any other NHL player last year SH TOI per game. Wonder who of the new guys takes his spot and improve the PK and the team as his replacement?

Raymond at $1 mil cap produced 19-26-45 points who of the replacement players are going to give the Leafs the same bank for their buck and/or replace the offense to improve the team? His contract value and production made him one of the best UFA signings in 2013.

Leafs 4th line played only limited minutes last year 5-8 TOI/g and didn't effect the outcome of games while sitting on the bench either positive or negatively.. However if the Leafs can ice a 4th line capable of playing ~12 mins a night that could keep Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Lupul and Kadri off the ice more cutting their ES TOI/g down and thus prevent less goals against in the process but it will be needed to see how a Ashton -- Holland -- Brodie/Orr line is used.

Santorelli will be like Mason Raymond 2.0. He was one of the best players on the Canucks roster last year until he got hurt. Lots of hustle and he was not afraid to go into the corners to get the puck (unlike Raymond).

 

[Mess]

Komorov = Kulemin
Raymond = Santorelli
Bolland > Frattin
Gunnarsson = Polak
Robidas is a ++++
KHL aquistion = unknown..imo..because he has no NHL experience.

Slightly improved I think because of Robidas' experience and leadership...but the rest are a wash at best if not a downgrade

Career NHL stats comparison head to head

Nikolai Kulemin (age 27) .. NHL Totals .. 421 games 84 goals 111 assists 195 points & 112 pims
vs
Leo Komarov ( Age 27) ......NHL Totals .. 42 games 4 goals 5 assists 9 points & 18 pims

Difference ........................................ 379 games 80 goals 106 assists 186 points & 94 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mason Raymond (Age 28) - NHL Totals --- 456 games 99 goals 124 assists 223 points & 140 pims
vs
Mike Santorelli (Age 28) - NHL Totals ----- 257 games 43 goals 44 assists 87 points & 56 pims

Difference ........................................ 199 games 56 goals 80 assists 136 points & 42 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Bolland ( age 28) ... NHL Totals -- 355 games 78 goals 102 assists 180 points & 235 pims
vs
Matt Frattin (age 26) .....NHL Totals --- 126 games 17 goals 18 assists 35 points & 40 pims

Difference ........................................ 229 games 61 goals 84 assists 145 points & 195 pims
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl Gunnarsson (age 27) ..NHL Totals -- 304 games 15 goals 71 assists 86 points & 92 pims
vs
Roman Polak (age 28) ......NHL Totals -- 424 games 13 goals 66 assists 79 points & 319 pims

Difference ........................................ -120 games 2 goals 5 assists 7 points & -227 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay McClement (age 31) ....NHL Totals....682 games 75 goals 129 assists 204 points 266 pims
vs
Petri Kontiola (age 30) ...... NHL Totals ... 12 games 0 goals 5 assists 5 points & 6 pims

Difference ........................................ 670 games 75 goals 124 assists 199 points & 260 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Gleason (age 31) ....... NHL Totals -- 655 games 16 goals 117 assists 133 points & 646 pims
vs
Stephane Robidas (Age 37). NHL Totals -- 885 games 56 goals 195 assists 251 points & 679 pims

Difference ........................................ -230 games -40 goals -78 assists -118 points &- 33 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Maple Leaf]

We are contending. I don't know why people suggest otherwise. Who will beat us Dallas?? We shut down spezza for years. Chicago? Kessel and JVR can take Kane and Toews. LA we beat last year and i dont see anyone else in the East that can truly keep up with us. our window is now

Agreed. With Bernier the whole year, our defense upgrades, and one of the best offenses in the East, Leafs will be a very difficult team to beat.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Agreed. With Bernier the whole year, our defense upgrades, and one of the best offenses in the East, Leafs will be a very difficult team to beat.

I love this forum. It's like watching cartoons.

 

[Holymakinaw]

I love this forum. It's like watching cartoons.

For once, we agree!

 

[Gary Nylund]

For once, we agree!

Nah there was one other time too. I didn't mention it cause I didn't want you to get a swelled head.

 

[masarume]

We are contending. I don't know why people suggest otherwise. Who will beat us Dallas?? We shut down spezza for years. Chicago? Kessel and JVR can take Kane and Toews. LA we beat last year and i dont see anyone else in the East that can truly keep up with us. our window is now

The other teams that finished above us last year. They haven't exactly gone away...

 

[Purity*]

No, your constant crying & moaning is proof that no matter what happens, the "usual suspects" will come in and crap all over it. You sure like pointing fingers at everyone else and talking negatively about them. but YOU are the super-predictable one with the anti-Leaf bias here. So far, every move they've made has been bad according to you, and you come into every thread and insult everyone who has any positive opinions on things. You're not to be listened to. PATHETIC.

Let me ask you again, where the **** have you been the last 10 years?

There is NO SHORTAGE of things to complain about when it comes to this team. And btw, Disgruntled Observer's opinions happen to be a lot more backed up than yours. He's willing to provide facts and evidence to support his views on this team. Yours? Completely unrealistic rosy optimism backed up by nothing.

 

[-DeMo-]

The Leafs already drafted a 1st line centre (Nylander). Give him a year in the AHL and he'll be ready.

he might be ready to play in the NHL in the 15-16 season but he wont be the #1 center that year, it will probably be 3-4 years before he will be considered to have a chance at being a good first line center. are we going to wait that long before we decide we need to add a first line center?

 

[Mess]

So the Leafs downgrade in skill last year to get grit/leadership and went from 9th to 23rd overall.

So the Leafs downgrade in skill this year to get grit/leadership and will go from 23rd overall....to better?

That doesn't sound right.

That is a good way of looking at it.

"If at first you don't succeed try, try again".

This seems to be the game plan based on the transactions.

 

[Liminality]

I'll repost what I posted in another thread cause it's how I feel about this team currently.

The lineup has the potential to be better but the Leafs are relying a lot on gambles this year.

Will Clarkson bounce back and provide some energy and secondary scoring? Will Santorelli continue to show the same determination and have the same effect in his one year with Vancouver? Will Komarov prove that he's more than a 4th liner to Carlyle this time? Will Kontiola prove that he can play at the NHL level? Will Frattin bounce back after his off year with LA and Blue Jackets? Will Gardiner and Rielly be able to continue to develop their game and accept their work load, or will they need more time before they can be put in that role? Will Robidas be healthy for the year and can he continue to play his game at 37? Can Randy configure his game plan to better fit the team?

We're counting on a lot of things to go right for this team to be successful this year. Not to mention if our top 6 is hit with injuries, I highly doubt we can replace any while keeping pace for playoffs.

I don't count on them having a great year but bigger surprises have happened in the NHL.

 

[Gallagbi]

That is a good way of looking at it.

"If at first you don't succeed try, try again".

This seems to be the game plan based on the transactions.

Didn't the Leafs sign Clarkson to a big contract and unload a number of picks to improve last summer? I don't remember them doing that this off-season, in fact it looks like they've done the opposite.

They've also opened up some spots for younger players instead of guys like McLaren, etc..

I wouldn't consider Santorelli, Kontiola or Frattin grit/leadership acquisitions.

 

[egd27]

he might be ready to play in the NHL in the 15-16 season but he wont be the #1 center that year, it will probably be 3-4 years before he will be considered to have a chance at being a good first line center. are we going to wait that long before we decide we need to add a first line center?

Good lawd!

All we've been hearing for the last few years (or more) is how the only way to get a #1C is through the draft. Then when they ACTUALLY DRAFT a player that has the potential to be a #1C, you ask if we're going to wait that long?

Please, please, please tell me you forgot to add the to your post.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Good lawd!

All we've been hearing for the last few years (or more) is how the only way to get a #1C is through the draft. Then when they ACTUALLY DRAFT a player that has the potential to be a #1C, you ask if we're going to wait that long?

Please, please, please tell me you forgot to add the to your post.

Because the leafs didn't draft a bona fide blue chip prospect destined to be a first line center. If we did, everyone here would have said "DONE!!! Finally have our future franchise center. Good job Nonis."

Instead, we drafted a player who we'd all be VERY happy if he turned into a decent #2 center.
It was still a good pick for #8. I'm still happy with him. And there is a slight chance he turns into a legitimate #1

But let's be honest... our search for a sure thing #1 is far from over.

 

[Mess]

Didn't the Leafs sign Clarkson to a big contract and unload a number of picks to improve last summer? I don't remember them doing that this off-season, in fact it looks like they've done the opposite.

Leafs traded Gunnarsson, + pick and salary retention for Polak.

Leafs traded D'Amigo + pick for Frattin.

Every time the Leafs make trades they seem to include picks in the transaction.

Leafs actually got older not younger Robidas is 37, Kontiola is turning 30 before the season begins, Santorelli is 28, Polak 28, Komarov 28, so perhaps that vetting up the line-up with inexperienced NHLer outside of grandpa Robidas was the plan this year.

 

[Gallagbi]

Leafs traded Gunnarsson, + pick and salary retention for Polak.

Leafs traded D'Amigo + pick for Frattin.

Every time the Leafs make trades they seem to include picks in the transaction.

Correct, they traded a 4th and a conditional pick. Last year they moved 2 x 2nds and 2 x 4th.

Not exactly similar.

No response to the Leadership, grit or age comments?

 

[-DeMo-]

Good lawd!

All we've been hearing for the last few years (or more) is how the only way to get a #1C is through the draft. Then when they ACTUALLY DRAFT a player that has the potential to be a #1C, you ask if we're going to wait that long?

Please, please, please tell me you forgot to add the to your post.

my point is if your waiting 4 ish years to see if we have a bonafide #1 center a lot of our older core players like Bozak/Kessel/Phaneuf/Lupul will be into there 30's by then and might be on the decline, so if the plan is waiting to see if Nylander can become a #1 center then those guys should be moved out for more players in the Nylander/Kadri/Reilly age group.

and let me say this is exactly the route I would like the leafs to take.

Edit: I'll also add that I was very happy with Picking Nylander it was the right choice imo.

#2 Edit: and if we wait 3-4 years to see if Nylander becomes that #1 center and he doesn't now were waiting probably what another 2-3 years for the next prospect or for someone to be available in trade?

 

[Mess]

Correct, they traded a 4th and a conditional pick. Last year they moved 2 x 2nds and 2 x 4th.

Not exactly similar.

No response to the Leadership, grit or age comments?

All you proving is that last year the Leafs acquired better players at higher acquisition costs, and that player that was acquired for 2nd and 2X4th was replaced and some people believe that it was an improvement on the roster to do so making the team better or improved by shopping in the bargain bin this year.

Future traded draft picks do not effect the current teams immediate results only the players brought in for them, but effect the future. Perhaps your misunderstanding that "similar and identical" are not the same. Besides there was no mention of picks in my original post nor the one I quoted. Only sacrificing skill for grit and leadership in hopes of improvement.

What do you think Robidas (age 37), Polak (age28) and Komarov (28) were brought in for ?. How is that not leadership, grit and age related transactions? Heck Nonis even stated it himself of bringing in these players for that very reason.

 

[Gallagbi]

All you proving is that last year the Leafs acquired better players at higher acquisition costs, and that player that was acquired for 2nd and 2X4th was replaced and some people believe that it was an improvement on the roster to do so making the team better or improved by shopping in the bargain bin this year.

Future traded draft picks do not effect the current teams immediate results only the players brought in for them, but effect the future. Perhaps your misunderstanding that "similar and identical" are not the same. Besides there was no mention of picks in my original post nor the one I quoted. Only sacrificing skill for grit and leadership in hopes of improvement.

What do you think Robidas (age 37), Polak (age28) and Komarov (28) were brought in for ?. How is that not leadership, grit and age related transactions? Heck Nonis even stated it himself of bringing in these players for that very reason.

Robidas is here for leadership. Frattin, Komarov, Santorelli, Polak, Kontiola, not so much.

Definitely to be tough to play against, but I can't think of a team trying to be easier to play against.

Claiming this off season is like last off season is a pretty big stretch.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Career NHL stats comparison head to head

Nikolai Kulemin (age 27) .. NHL Totals .. 421 games 84 goals 111 assists 195 points & 112 pims
vs
Leo Komarov ( Age 27) ......NHL Totals .. 42 games 4 goals 5 assists 9 points & 18 pims

Difference ........................................ 379 games 80 goals 106 assists 186 points & 94 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mason Raymond (Age 28) - NHL Totals --- 456 games 99 goals 124 assists 223 points & 140 pims
vs
Mike Santorelli (Age 28) - NHL Totals ----- 257 games 43 goals 44 assists 87 points & 56 pims

Difference ........................................ 199 games 56 goals 80 assists 136 points & 42 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Bolland ( age 28) ... NHL Totals -- 355 games 78 goals 102 assists 180 points & 235 pims
vs
Matt Frattin (age 26) .....NHL Totals --- 126 games 17 goals 18 assists 35 points & 40 pims

Difference ........................................ 229 games 61 goals 84 assists 145 points & 195 pims
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl Gunnarsson (age 27) ..NHL Totals -- 304 games 15 goals 71 assists 86 points & 92 pims
vs
Roman Polak (age 28) ......NHL Totals -- 424 games 13 goals 66 assists 79 points & 319 pims

Difference ........................................ -120 games 2 goals 5 assists 7 points & -227 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay McClement (age 31) ....NHL Totals....682 games 75 goals 129 assists 204 points 266 pims
vs
Petri Kontiola (age 30) ...... NHL Totals ... 12 games 0 goals 5 assists 5 points & 6 pims

Difference ........................................ 670 games 75 goals 124 assists 199 points & 260 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Gleason (age 31) ....... NHL Totals -- 655 games 16 goals 117 assists 133 points & 646 pims
vs
Stephane Robidas (Age 37). NHL Totals -- 885 games 56 goals 195 assists 251 points & 679 pims

Difference ........................................ -230 games -40 goals -78 assists -118 points &- 33 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Heart and soul and plays tough every night. Why did the Leafs let him go again? SMH....

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Career NHL stats comparison head to head

Nikolai Kulemin (age 27) .. NHL Totals .. 421 games 84 goals 111 assists 195 points & 112 pims
vs
Leo Komarov ( Age 27) ......NHL Totals .. 42 games 4 goals 5 assists 9 points & 18 pims

Difference ........................................ 379 games 80 goals 106 assists 186 points & 94 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mason Raymond (Age 28) - NHL Totals --- 456 games 99 goals 124 assists 223 points & 140 pims
vs
Mike Santorelli (Age 28) - NHL Totals ----- 257 games 43 goals 44 assists 87 points & 56 pims

Difference ........................................ 199 games 56 goals 80 assists 136 points & 42 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave Bolland ( age 28) ... NHL Totals -- 355 games 78 goals 102 assists 180 points & 235 pims
vs
Matt Frattin (age 26) .....NHL Totals --- 126 games 17 goals 18 assists 35 points & 40 pims

Difference ........................................ 229 games 61 goals 84 assists 145 points & 195 pims
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Carl Gunnarsson (age 27) ..NHL Totals -- 304 games 15 goals 71 assists 86 points & 92 pims
vs
Roman Polak (age 28) ......NHL Totals -- 424 games 13 goals 66 assists 79 points & 319 pims

Difference ........................................ -120 games 2 goals 5 assists 7 points & -227 pims
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jay McClement (age 31) ....NHL Totals....682 games 75 goals 129 assists 204 points 266 pims
vs
Petri Kontiola (age 30) ...... NHL Totals ... 12 games 0 goals 5 assists 5 points & 6 pims

Difference ........................................ 670 games 75 goals 124 assists 199 points & 260 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tim Gleason (age 31) ....... NHL Totals -- 655 games 16 goals 117 assists 133 points & 646 pims
vs
Stephane Robidas (Age 37). NHL Totals -- 885 games 56 goals 195 assists 251 points & 679 pims

Difference ........................................ -230 games -40 goals -78 assists -118 points &- 33 pims
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They talk about 'leadership' on the Leafs, then lose McClement, assistant captain and their top face-off man, to Carolina for only $1 million a year!