Post-Game Talk: the Leafs are undefeated, and we won the shootout. no the world is not ending.

[Clark4Ever]

Lol, I laugh at all the people that said Eakins would be a better coach than Carlyle.

I would much rather have a coach that would held younger players accountable to make them better than have a player coach.

Exactly. BTW, how is Eakins doing so far?

 

[bunjay]

Norris is the award for Best DEFENSEman. Neither Subban, nor Karlsson play defense. As long as 4th forwards keep winning the Norris, it will be meaningless.

Tell me how often the Norris is given to a great shutdown defenseman who makes little or no contribution to offense.

I'll wait. Offensive contribution from the best d-men in the game is still important, and has been since Bobby Orr, who you may well have labeled a "4th forward" with the way he played.

 

[bunjay]

Exactly. BTW, how is Eakins doing so far?

You mean like, after a whole two games?

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Tell me how often the Norris is given to a great shutdown defenseman who makes little or no contribution to offense.

I'll wait. Offensive contribution from the best d-men in the game is still important, and has been since Bobby Orr, who you may well have labeled a "4th forward" with the way he played.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about how a defencemen's offensive contributions are considered moreso than their defensive contributions (which should be more relevant). And I don't think anyone who was old enough to remember watching Bobby Orr would describe him as a "4th forward", or that he won the Norris 8 times on the basis of his offensive output. He revolutionized the way that d-men play the game.

 

[Clark4Ever]

You mean like, after a whole two games?

Yes, after a whole 2 games in which his young talented team has looked awful. Of course, he has time to develop as a coach at this level, but some people around here thought he was the second coming and advocated hiring him over a coach with a Stanley Cup pedigree. True story.

 

[Pi]

You mean like, after a whole two games?

So far Eakins looks like all talk and not much else.

"We refuse to bow down to the Canucks in this building any more"

Edmonton is embarrassed out of the building and beaten in every single way.

 

[p.l.f.]

Poor Eakins

 

[Paradoc]

You mean like, after a whole two games?

Yes I know its two games, but Oilers looks awful. The Taylor Hall Centre experiment has not been working out and he has team worst -5. Schultz looks terrible in his own zone and Dubynk can't stop a beach ball. I have no idea why they didn't go after Bernier because Dubnyk is not a good fit for them. Eakins has a lot work to do and it has to start by the defense. Still, I couldn't believe that people wanted him over Stanley Cup winner, Carlyle.

 

[bunjay]

I'm pretty sure he was talking about how a defencemen's offensive contributions are considered moreso than their defensive contributions (which should be more relevant). And I don't think anyone who was old enough to remember watching Bobby Orr would describe him as a "4th forward", or that he won the Norris 8 times on the basis of his offensive output. He revolutionized the way that d-men play the game.

Yes...by playing like a 4th forward. Which he was able to do, and still get back to play defense, because his skating was so far ahead of the league average.

When Orr was on the ice he usually carried the puck more than his forwards. That's how he revolutionized the position. And since he stopped winning the Norris it's only been given to players who werent amongst the elite offensively a handful of times.

A bad game against Toronto doesn't change the fact that Karlsson, at 22, was probably the second biggest factor in his team making the playoffs when by all accounts they were more likely to finish last. And he did it playing #1 minutes, and was very close to PPG.

Had there been a more impressive season that year by a more defensively sound defenseman, Karlsson would not have won. It's really not a big deal, and I don't see why there are people on this forum acting like it was a personal insult to them. You don't like Karlsson. That's great.

If last season Jake Gardiner had played #1 minutes and put up PPG numbers despite playing questionable defense, we all would have hoped for him to win the Norris. They both often play like forwards and have regular defensive lapses. They're both gifted skaters and playmakers. The difference is that Karlsson actually accomplished something special, but we don't like him.

 

[bunjay]

Yes I know its two games, but Oilers looks awful. The Taylor Hall Centre experiment has not been working out and he has team worst -5. Schultz looks terrible in his own zone and Dubynk can't stop a beach ball. I have no idea why they didn't go after Bernier because Dubnyk is not a good fit for them. Eakins has a lot work to do and it has to start by the defense. Still, I couldn't believe that people wanted him over Stanley Cup winner, Carlyle.

Perhaps the Oilers did go after Bernier.

No coach is so amazing that he can instantly turn around an entire team that can't play defense, let alone turn Dubnyk into a great goalie. How exactly is this a reflection of Eakins' coaching abilities? He's in a situation where he's more likely to fail than succeed, it's still a great opportunity for him. If he ever does manage to make that team defensively sound (something Carlyle has not accomplished in Toronto) he'll be considered a genius.

 

[Crispy Crust]

Perhaps the Oilers did go after Bernier.

No coach is so amazing that he can instantly turn around an entire team that can't play defense, let alone turn Dubnyk into a great goalie. How exactly is this a reflection of Eakins' coaching abilities? He's in a situation where he's more likely to fail than succeed, it's still a great opportunity for him. If he ever does manage to make that team defensively sound (something Carlyle has not accomplished in Toronto) he'll be considered a genius.

Good post.

 

[LyGuy]

dat stride

 

[hotpaws]

Yes, after a whole 2 games in which his young talented team has looked awful. Of course, he has time to develop as a coach at this level, but some people around here thought he was the second coming and advocated hiring him over a coach with a Stanley Cup pedigree. True story.

I was far from a fan of Eakins and I thought RC was the better hire at the time but you can't judge a coach after 2 games especially while missing his two top centers .

 

[Paradoc]

Perhaps the Oilers did go after Bernier.

No coach is so amazing that he can instantly turn around an entire team that can't play defense, let alone turn Dubnyk into a great goalie. How exactly is this a reflection of Eakins' coaching abilities? He's in a situation where he's more likely to fail than succeed, it's still a great opportunity for him. If he ever does manage to make that team defensively sound (something Carlyle has not accomplished in Toronto) he'll be considered a genius.

Then why take a job when your more likely to fail than succeed? I've seen the oilers play the last two game. If that is any reflection of how they might pay for a full 82 game season than they are in trouble

Also I like how you mention how Carlyle hasn't made this team defensively sound. 2 in Pk last year and already off to a great start this year. Sure this team makes mental lapses at time but they are still pretty good at protecting the lead (expect the boston game).

 

[IBeL34f]

dat stride

Just wish we had the original angle, he looked like such a boss

 

[Warden of the North]

Lol, I laugh at all the people that said Eakins would be a better coach than Carlyle.

I would much rather have a coach that would held younger players accountable to make them better than have a player coach.

To be fair, we're a hell of a lot better team then the Oilers. And both of our goalies are better then Dubnyk. That team has a serious lack of leadership, and that is emphasized with naming Ference captain, despite not even playing a game for them, then giving out 6 As to the kids. This isnt kindergarten where everyone has to win something. Oilers management has developed "special snowflake" syndrome with the kids when what they need to do is start winning.

I feel bad for Eakins. Hes going to be out of there in short order. I hope we bring him back to Toronto.

 

[Paradoc]

To be fair, we're a hell of a lot better team then the Oilers. And both of our goalies are better then Dubnyk. That team has a serious lack of leadership, and that is emphasized with naming Ference captain, despite not even playing a game for them, then giving out 6 As to the kids. This isnt kindergarten where everyone has to win something. Oilers management has developed "special snowflake" syndrome with the kids when what they need to do is start winning.

I feel bad for Eakins. Hes going to be out of there in short order. I hope we bring him back to Toronto.

I'm just saying how everyone here thought that Eakins would be the better coach than Carlyle.

Yes, Eakins is not off to a great start but I would much rather have Carlyle than him.

 

[hotpaws]

Then why take a job when your more likely to fail than succeed? I've seen the oilers play the last two game. If that is any reflection of how they might pay for a full 82 game season than they are in trouble

Also I like how you mention how Carlyle hasn't made this team defensively sound. 2 in Pk last year and already off to a great start this year. Sure this team makes mental lapses at time but they are still pretty good at protecting the lead (expect the boston game).

Did you happen to notice they were missing RNH and Gagner which forced them to try to Hall at center .

RC is a very good coach and Eakins may be in the future so I don't understand the need to slag one to pimp the other ?

Our team has been a cluster **** defensively so far this season and our goalies have bailed them out . I don't blame RC , I blame the guys he has to work with .

 

[BayStreetBullies*]

Yes...by playing like a 4th forward. Which he was able to do, and still get back to play defense, because his skating was so far ahead of the league average.

That doesn't make him a 4th forward. It makes him an elite d-man who can play both ends.

When Orr was on the ice he usually carried the puck more than his forwards. That's how he revolutionized the position.

He revolutionized the position because before him, defencemen weren't expected to score that many points.

And since he stopped winning the Norris it's only been given to players who werent amongst the elite offensively a handful of times.

If you're talking about Bobby Orr-elite offensively, then yeah, obviously. But guys like MacInnis and Coffey were able to win the Norris by putting up ridiculous numbers, but without compromising their defensive duties.


You need to stop dismissing everyone's criticism of Karlsson as simply not liking him. It's childish.

 

[Dangles McGavin]

I thought Abbott was actually totally fine. It was his first NHL game as a smaller player- it's obviously going to be tough.

Spencer played confidently, and smart. He got benched for the 3rd but I don't think it was as much his playing bad as much as it was "GET BOLLAND AND MAYRAY OUT THERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE".

 

[bunjay]

Then why take a job when your more likely to fail than succeed?

Are you seriously asking why a career minor-league coach would accept his first NHL job?

I've seen the oilers play the last two game. If that is any reflection of how they might pay for a full 82 game season than they are in trouble

Also I like how you mention how Carlyle hasn't made this team defensively sound. 2 in Pk last year and already off to a great start this year. Sure this team makes mental lapses at time but they are still pretty good at protecting the lead (expect the boston game).

Then we'll just have to agree to disagree. This team allows near-constant odd-man breaks against, is often completely lost for long periods of time in their own zone, has way too many unforced turnovers in their own zone, and being good on the PK doesnt change that. The team defense is still very sloppy, and has been especially so to begin this season. If Edmonton had Bernier instead of Dubnyk perhaps they'd be 2-0 instead of 0-2. If we had Dubnyk instead of Bernier maybe we would also have two losses.

The defense overall is actually pretty awful.

 

[LyGuy]

Just wish we had the original angle, he looked like such a boss

Find me the video and i'll make the gif

 

[bunjay]

That doesn't make him a 4th forward. It makes him an elite d-man who can play both ends.



He revolutionized the position because before him, defencemen weren't expected to score that many points.



If you're talking about Bobby Orr-elite offensively, then yeah, obviously. But guys like MacInnis and Coffey were able to win the Norris by putting up ridiculous numbers, but without compromising their defensive duties.

Coffey was and still is criticized for playing like a forward and more-or-less ignoring defense. Piss poor example

You need to stop dismissing everyone's criticism of Karlsson as simply not liking him. It's childish.

No, what's really childish is taking so much pleasure out of a bad game by Karlsson and deciding he sucks, and then going on to talk about how meaningless the Norris is now that he's won it. That's not legitimate criticism of a player. That's smugness at it's worst, and being a ****ty winner. Phaneuf has games where he looks like a pylon as well. Every defenseman does. Karlsson is the same age as Gardiner with much more responsibility, anybody in their right mind would swap the former for the latter.

 

[Confucius]

I was far from a fan of Eakins and I thought RC was the better hire at the time but you can't judge a coach after 2 games especially while missing his two top centers .

Exactly, if I remember correctly Carlyle's first 20 odd games here were abysmal as well. Don't get me wrong I like Carlyle and am thankful to have him but it's way too early to judge Eakins.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I thought Abbott was actually totally fine. It was his first NHL game as a smaller player- it's obviously going to be tough.

Spencer played confidently, and smart. He got benched for the 3rd but I don't think it was as much his playing bad as much as it was "GET BOLLAND AND MAYRAY OUT THERE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE".

He was sent down, along with Devane, today. I don't if that was for salary cap purposes or what and they will be back up on Tuesday.