LeBrun: "The Leafs are phoning around looking at defensemen on PTOs"

[GirardSpinorama]

Old Narratives die hard it seems.

The Leafs fixed their D, reallocated money (took a few years and a botched Kadri trade being fixed by a Brodie signing) - but their D is legitimately very good. There are better (COL, CGY, CAR, couple others perhaps) - but its very, very good.

Where the Leafs struggle right now is depth scoring, which has been depleted over the years (Kadri, Kapanen, Johnsson) in order to fix the D.

I can't think of a playoff team that has a worse dcore than the leafs. Except Pittsburg and maybe Florida this year.

Giordano's prime was a Norris winner lol, having him decline into "just" a good 2nd pair guy isn't the problem you're trying desperately to make it out to be.

Giordano is a top 4 on an expansion team sure.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

I think Morgan Rielly is an average #1 defenseman. But, he is one. Then you have 3 #2-3 defenseman in Brodie, Muzzin and Giordano. That makes up a pretty star studded veteran cast in the top-4. With two top prospects turned NHL'ers with top-4, maybe top pairing upside. With Justin Holl, a guy that has averaged over 20 minutes a game the past two seasons on a top seeded playoff team and who was protected over Kerfoot, McCann and Engvall in the expansion draft as your #7 guy.

I don't know man. Maybe, take another look and then check out some other rosters.

I think this is the key point here. People are looking at COL/CGY/CAR and assume everyone else is similar.

Tampa is

Hedman
Sergachev
Cernak
Foote
Ian Cole
Phillipe Myers (played for the MARLIES last year)


Florida

Ekblad
Montour
Forsling
Gudas
Carlsson
Sjalin/Staal?

 

[zeke]

You clearly don't watch actual championship hockey. I said Brodie and Reilly aren't past their prime. Muzzin is. Giordano certainly is. Lilegeen and Sandin are unproven.

Muzzin sure didn't look past any prime in the playoffs.

I can't think of a playoff team that has a worse dcore than the leafs. Except Pittsburg and maybe Florida this year.


Giordano is a top 4 on an expansion team sure.

Yikes.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

The Leafs' defense is one of the best in hockey and currently has one injury.

Nah, it's good but not great and that goaltending tandem is very, very bad.

 

[notbias]

I can't think

Agreed.

But seriously, if that is your opinion, check out some other rosters, it'll help you find some teams worse on D that made the playoffs.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

I can't think of a playoff team that has a worse dcore than the leafs. Except Pittsburg and maybe Florida this year.


Giordano is a top 4 on an expansion team sure.

Edmonton has two former leafs in their top 6 D which are worse than any of the current Leafs 1-7.

 

[Zirakzigil]

The only RH Dman out there is Starlman ,, he would be a good 8th or 9th dman

Wrong. Stone is also on a PTO with the Flames and Im sure there are others. Stone wont leave Calgary though.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

If they move Holl, CDH makes sense as a 7. But the Benn injury is short term (believe he would be the 7 if Holl was moved) - so i'm not sure they'll bother or that CDH should jump at an opportunity to be the Leafs 7/8.

Don't think he plays over a healthy Sandin/Liljegren.

I would assume CDH would jump at the opportunity to simply sign a contract at this point. If Toronto offered him league minimum to be a 7/8D I would bet he takes that.

He should also be the #7D over Benn and IMO Holl. Way cheaper then Holl and with fairly comparable stats despite being on a much worse team the last couple years.


Honestly I think on a fully healthy Leafs Defense CDH would be a 5/6 behind Brodie/Liljegren/Sandin/Rielly and on par with Giordano. In fact a Giordano/CDH 3rd pairing would be a pretty solid low event pairing and PK unit.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

I think this is the key point here. People are looking at COL/CGY/CAR and assume everyone else is similar.

Tampa is

Hedman
Sergachev
Cernak
Foote
Ian Cole
Phillipe Myers (played for the MARLIES last year)


Florida

Ekblad
Montour
Forsling
Gudas
Carlsson
Sjalin/Staal?

I wouldn't trade Hedman for the entire leafs core combined.

Agreed.

But seriously, if that is your opinion, check out some other rosters, it'll help you find some teams worse on D that made the playoffs.

Yes Pittsburg and Florida.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

I wouldn't trade Hedman for the entire leafs core combined.

Yes Pittsburg and Florida.

Hedman is a monster of course, but he unfortunately can't play 60 minutes.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Edmonton has two former leafs in their top 6 D which are worse than any of the Leafs 1-7.

That’s actually false and I’m far from an Oilers fan. Ceci has been a solid second pairing D for them and Barrie is not worse than Toronto’s bottom pair.

 

[zeke]

Nah, it's good but not great and that goaltending tandem is very, very bad.

No it's one of the best in the league. The only thing missing is a Norris quality guy, but other great dcorps also have that issue.

Agree that the goaltending is probably poor. But who can ever tell with goalies?

 

[zeke]

Edmonton has two former leafs in their top 6 D which are worse than any of the current Leafs 1-7.

Pretty sure they're in edmonton's top 4.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

That’s actually false and I’m far from an Oilers fan. Ceci has been a solid second pairing D for them.

Hes been better for them than he was for the Leafs, and is basically Justin Holl to the Oilers (fine in his role and for his salary).

I don't even hate Ceci - hes legitimately fine. Perhaps hes better than Holl - I wouldn't take him or his on ice results over any of the top 6 for the Leafs.

 

[Shocker]

Looks like zeke has woken up again from the coma Leafs failing to reach 2nd round caused him.

Clockwork really.

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Edmonton has two former leafs in their top 6 D which are worse than any of the current Leafs 1-7.

I've watched a lot of Barrie, he would be in your top 4. Bouchard is way better than the leafs young players. Ceci is way better than holl.

Luckily you will continue to work at McDonald's and not be employed in any position that would make this decision, because that is a terrible take.

Matthews is the 2nd best player in the league.

You mad?

 

[zeke]

That’s actually false and I’m far from an Oilers fan. Ceci has been a solid second pairing D for them.

Ceci got beat out fair and square for a spot by Justin Holl, the leafs' current #7.

Despite Ceci having the advantage of a big contract and first dibs.

 

[CanHeDoIt99]

I've watched a lot of Barrie, he would be in your top 4. Bouchard is way better than the leafs young players. Ceci is way better than holl.

Yeah I don't know what to tell you if this is your take honestly. Barrie in the Leafs top four? They did that - didn't work. They let him walk and signed Brodie - much, much, much better results.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

The Leafs' defense is one of the best in hockey HISTORY and currently has one injury.

Fixed. Don't short change them.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Hes been better for them than he was for the Leafs, and is basically Justin Holl to the Oilers (fine in his role and for his salary).

I don't even hate Ceci - hes legitimately fine. Perhaps hes better than Holl - I wouldn't take him or his on ice results over any of the top 6 for the Leafs.

I think you overrate the Leafs group tbh.
The only 3 clearly above him are Reilly, Brodie and Muzzin when healthy. Then I’d go:
Ceci
Giordano
Barrie/Holl

Giordano is really a shadow of his former self at this point. I’m also sceptical on Muzzin this year as well.

 

[notbias]

I've watched a lot of Barrie, he would be in your top 4. Bouchard is way better than the leafs young players. Ceci is way better than holl.

Should be banned for trolling at this point, no one believes this is a serious opinion.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

You want f***ing Wideman, or what ?

 

[GirardSpinorama]

Yeah I don't know what to tell you if this is your take honestly. Barrie in the Leafs top four? They did that - didn't work. They let him walk and signed Brodie - much, much, much better results.

Ya they were stupid enough to trade Kadri away, I remember. They used Barrie poorly and they don't have the defensive players to compliment him.

 

[notbias]

I think you overrate the Leafs group tbh.
The only 3 clearly above him are Reilly, Brodie and Muzzin when healthy. Then I’d go:
Ceci
Giordano
Barrie/Holl

100% Gio is above him, Gio is still a hell of a player. I'd argue Liljegren is too, just needs more of an opportunity.

won't argue Sandin/Holl at this point, I don't mind Ceci as a player.

 

[zeke]

I've watched a lot of Barrie, he would be in your top 4. Bouchard is way better than the leafs young players. Ceci is way better than holl.

You mad?

Barrie and Ceci got beaten out fair and square by Justin Holl, and handily.

Despite them both having the advantage of being pricey trade adds with first dibs on the spots.

And Holl can't crack our top 6 now.