The last NHL player the Oilers drafted beyond the first round is...
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EnthusiasticYak
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- Mar 7, 2014
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When you consider that Edmonton grabbed David Musil rather than Brandon Saad, John Gibson or Boone Jenner in 2011, their amateur scouting becomes even more suspect. It's an area they have struggled in for the last decade and it is part of the reason that there is no supporting cast for the top level talent they have drafted in the first round.
When good teams bring in talent they are surrounded by a supporting cast who help instill an identity and sense of organizational culture in young players as well as helping to mentor them and teach them the proper way to play the game.
The Oilers have tried to create this type of thing without a concrete idea of identity that supersedes all else. They have tried to create this with outside talent. This talent has either been ruined by Oilers culture or in game system, or the talent was misidentified by teams pro scouts; in keeping with the theme of the thread I'll take the latter.
In reality the Oilers went about the rebuild the wrong way and it was more than likely doomed to fail from the start, especially considering that 3/5 core players (before Nurse and Draisaitl) were wingers.based on Nicholson's comments, they are not planning to change anything either.
When good teams bring in talent they are surrounded by a supporting cast who help instill an identity and sense of organizational culture in young players as well as helping to mentor them and teach them the proper way to play the game.
The Oilers have tried to create this type of thing without a concrete idea of identity that supersedes all else. They have tried to create this with outside talent. This talent has either been ruined by Oilers culture or in game system, or the talent was misidentified by teams pro scouts; in keeping with the theme of the thread I'll take the latter.
In reality the Oilers went about the rebuild the wrong way and it was more than likely doomed to fail from the start, especially considering that 3/5 core players (before Nurse and Draisaitl) were wingers.based on Nicholson's comments, they are not planning to change anything either.
Jtown
Registered User
when people look at the overall number 1's and laught at edm to point out how much we suck, I always say "its hard to mess up the number 1 overall pick, it's every other pick they mess up on"
This organization has a lack of talent from head to toe, and that is what happens when you can't hit outside the first round. It is truly pathetic.
This organization has a lack of talent from head to toe, and that is what happens when you can't hit outside the first round. It is truly pathetic.
Drafting and development has been a problem with this organization for 25 years. It needs to be completely gutted and overhauled from top to bottom. That's why we're still 5 years away from turning this thing around. It's that bad. Hearing Nicholson admits that on Sportsnet is a breath of fresh air. He is not a Katz Kronie so hopefully he brings impetus of change.
It's our only hope.
It's our only hope.
I am the Liquor
ABK
- Oct 15, 2008
- 40,456
- 5,499
The "old" scouting staff has a big hand in the crap we have on the ice today. weve had crap from the draft over the years and passed on too many mid to late round picks that it's a systemic problem in the organization. I was there when we should have taken Shane Doan. We drafted Steve Fkg Kelly.
Oh for sure. I'm not even a big fan of the scouting staff we have now but at some point we have to stop blaming the past and focus on the future.
Roof Daddy
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- Apr 1, 2008
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The wording makes me want to answer Kevin Bouchard, 183rd pick in the 2014 draft. He is literally the last guy we drafted after the first round.
Game 8
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- Mar 8, 2003
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Nash was 1st round; though even in that regard they've made some real bonehead picks in the 1st round as well (Plante, Schremp, etc.).
Roof Daddy
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- Apr 1, 2008
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Sounds like a sound bite from next off-season's presser when Gretzky is named President, Messier GM, Anderson Head Coach. Brought to you by Rexall pharmacies.
I just get defensive when people blame scouting like these kids never had a chance and the Oilers went off the board with their picks. Although I haven't agreed with all of the selections, all of them were arguably BPA according to different scouting services for the first 2 rounds. The only real reach they have made under the new regime was Mitch Moroz. Even Moroz had a better junior career then we first thought. A guy like Hamilton was on team Canada and looked good. The Oilers need to do a better job managing assets and developing players, it's not on the scouts. Even then, the success rate for 2nd rounders is like 1 out of 3.
I mean, I've been making the argument that given how bad we've sucked and for how long we sucked, we don't have to be that good at scouting.
Look around the league and find a more valuable group of players under the age of 23 (or since the 2010 draft when the new group took over).
We have Hall, Nuge, Klefbom, Yakupov, Nurse, Draisaitl and Marincin. By comparison another rebuilding team like the Jets have Burmistrov, Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, and Ehlers. I think fans forget how young these guys are. Our guys are already trying to carry a team while other teams prospects are down in the minors or playing secondary roles. Want another team? Vancouver has Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Virtanen and McCann.
I mean, I've been making the argument that given how bad we've sucked and for how long we sucked, we don't have to be that good at scouting.
Look around the league and find a more valuable group of players under the age of 23 (or since the 2010 draft when the new group took over).
We have Hall, Nuge, Klefbom, Yakupov, Nurse, Draisaitl and Marincin. By comparison another rebuilding team like the Jets have Burmistrov, Scheifele, Trouba, Morrissey, and Ehlers. I think fans forget how young these guys are. Our guys are already trying to carry a team while other teams prospects are down in the minors or playing secondary roles. Want another team? Vancouver has Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat, Shinkaruk, Virtanen and McCann.
Not when it's a completely different scouting staff.
Fan frustration is getting ridiculous. People are blaming other fans, old scouting staffs and even the Pctane girls for this teams failures. Let's focus on getting out of this hole instead of piling on things that happened in the past.
Horseradish
Registered User
I'm more concerned about their pro scouting, to be honest.
We have brought in Fistric, Mike Brown, Jerrod Smithsen, Luke Gazdic, Jason LaBarbera, Joensuu, and Nikitin in the past three years. All, at best, below average in their roles.
Break evens: Hendricks, Purcell, Pouliot.
Good: Gordon, Perron, Fayne.
Verdict still out on Fasth and Scrivens.
No great value players in 3 seasons. That has to get better.
We have brought in Fistric, Mike Brown, Jerrod Smithsen, Luke Gazdic, Jason LaBarbera, Joensuu, and Nikitin in the past three years. All, at best, below average in their roles.
Break evens: Hendricks, Purcell, Pouliot.
Good: Gordon, Perron, Fayne.
Verdict still out on Fasth and Scrivens.
No great value players in 3 seasons. That has to get better.
100% this. I've been calling for blood ever since the Patrick O'sullivan trade. I imagine all of the conversations went like this:
GM: "Hey guys, what do you think of O'Sullivan/Whitney/Belanger/etc. ? I hear they are available."
Pro Scout: "Oh yeah. I haven't really seen them play for a couple years but they were good back then."
GM: "Any reason why they are trying to move him? Have you talked to the player?"
Pro Scout: "I don't really concern myself with small things like injury history or a guys personality. This guy has no baggage. I'm sure we are just smarter than everyone else in the league."
GM: "Yep, let's make the trade before we dig a little deeper, It's the Oilers way."
Fixed to Ruin
Come wit it now!
If you really want to vomit on your shoes look at the first two rounds of 2003.
1st round we got M-A Pouliot.
Ryan Getzlaf, Zach Parise, Corey Perry, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Brent Burns could have been selected.
The Oilers had 2 second round picks in 2003. They drafted Colin McDonald and JF Jacques.
Shea Weber, Patrice Bergeron, Loui Eriksson, Matt Carle, Corey Crawford, David Backes, Jimmy Howard would have been nice to have in the 2nd round but clearly the Oilers knew what they were doing in this draft.
1st round we got M-A Pouliot.
Ryan Getzlaf, Zach Parise, Corey Perry, Ryan Kesler, Mike Richards, Brent Burns could have been selected.
The Oilers had 2 second round picks in 2003. They drafted Colin McDonald and JF Jacques.
Shea Weber, Patrice Bergeron, Loui Eriksson, Matt Carle, Corey Crawford, David Backes, Jimmy Howard would have been nice to have in the 2nd round but clearly the Oilers knew what they were doing in this draft.
McRobbiezyg
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- Oct 21, 2007
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Our Pro scouting has to be one of the worst. Other teams identify what kinds of players they need and they look to acquire them. For the Oilers, be it the GM not knowing what kinds of player he needs or the pro scouting giving bad information, its always taken years to plug a hole.. or in our defense's case, 8 years and counting.
Beerfish
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- Apr 14, 2007
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If you don't take to task and learn from previous errors you are doomed to make them again. The fact that despite picking ahead of each team in each round we have almost nothing to show for it is HARDLY spilt milk.
The oilers scouts have been milking bulls over the past years and wondering why the bulls only have one teet.
Beerfish
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- Apr 14, 2007
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I had been following that draft closely leading up to it and just loved Parise, when he feel into our laps I was so bloody happy and then within seconds just couldn't believe it. I still remember Pendergast talking about passing on Parise in a Lowe like bristling fashion when questioned about it. "If we had wanted that player we would have chosen that player." (Or words to those effect.)
Zaddy
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- Feb 8, 2013
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"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"
When the Oilers take players with at best bottom-six upside with their 2nd/3rd round picks (which mostly has been early ones at that) it's not weird that we have absolutely nothing coming.
2010
#31 Tyler Pitlick
#46 Martin Marincin
#48 Curtis Hamilton
#61 Ryan Martindale
2011
#31 David Musil
#62 Samu Perhonen
#74 Travis Ewanyk
2012
#32 Mitch Moroz
#63 Jujhar Khaira
#91 Daniil Zharkov
These are our picks from the 2nd and 3rd round 2010-2012. It's pretty easy to see a pattern here. These are big guys with not a lot of skill. We went for the same type of players three years in a row and, surprise, it's just not panning out whatsoever. You don't pick players with bottom-six upside at best in the early rounds. You need to go for skill if you ever hope to fill out your roster with players who can actually contribute.
Let's compare this with Detroit Red Wings for instance.
2010
#51 Calle Järnkrok
#81 Louis-Marc Aubry
Here they got Calle Järnkrok in the 2nd round. 3rd round they picked a nonamer but in the 4th they got a promising young player in Teemu Pulkkinen and even better they got Petr Mrazek in the 5th round who looks poised to be a #1 goalie in the league very soon. Already a much better draft with two of their picks being AFTER all of the four Oiler picks.
2011
#35 Tomas Jurco
#48 Xavier Oullet
#55 Ryan Sproul
Here they got three very promising players all in the 2nd round. All of which in my book has more upside than David Musil. Tomas Jurco is already a successful NHLer by the way while Oullet just got called up, has played in four games and is 4-0-1 and +3, averaging over 16 minutes of icetime.
2012
#49 Martin Frk
#80 Jake Paterson
Not as solid of a draft, at least as it stands right now. 4th rounder Andreas Athanasiou could be a steal though and in my book looks better than any of the three guys we picked ahead of him.
TL;DR: You can see a very different approach to drafting between the Red Wings and the Oilers. They are almost exclusively looking for impact players and are getting rewarded for it. Not everyone is going to pan out - that's just the nature of it - but they've made some very good bets. This is kind of ironic considering Detroit has been a playoff team all these years while we have had the luxury of making early picks, yet they have a much more stellar draft record. Goes to show that drafting outside the 1st round isn't a crapshoot but rather about making qualified bets. Kind of like poker, I'd imagine.
When the Oilers take players with at best bottom-six upside with their 2nd/3rd round picks (which mostly has been early ones at that) it's not weird that we have absolutely nothing coming.
2010
#31 Tyler Pitlick
#46 Martin Marincin
#48 Curtis Hamilton
#61 Ryan Martindale
2011
#31 David Musil
#62 Samu Perhonen
#74 Travis Ewanyk
2012
#32 Mitch Moroz
#63 Jujhar Khaira
#91 Daniil Zharkov
These are our picks from the 2nd and 3rd round 2010-2012. It's pretty easy to see a pattern here. These are big guys with not a lot of skill. We went for the same type of players three years in a row and, surprise, it's just not panning out whatsoever. You don't pick players with bottom-six upside at best in the early rounds. You need to go for skill if you ever hope to fill out your roster with players who can actually contribute.
Let's compare this with Detroit Red Wings for instance.
2010
#51 Calle Järnkrok
#81 Louis-Marc Aubry
Here they got Calle Järnkrok in the 2nd round. 3rd round they picked a nonamer but in the 4th they got a promising young player in Teemu Pulkkinen and even better they got Petr Mrazek in the 5th round who looks poised to be a #1 goalie in the league very soon. Already a much better draft with two of their picks being AFTER all of the four Oiler picks.
2011
#35 Tomas Jurco
#48 Xavier Oullet
#55 Ryan Sproul
Here they got three very promising players all in the 2nd round. All of which in my book has more upside than David Musil. Tomas Jurco is already a successful NHLer by the way while Oullet just got called up, has played in four games and is 4-0-1 and +3, averaging over 16 minutes of icetime.
2012
#49 Martin Frk
#80 Jake Paterson
Not as solid of a draft, at least as it stands right now. 4th rounder Andreas Athanasiou could be a steal though and in my book looks better than any of the three guys we picked ahead of him.
TL;DR: You can see a very different approach to drafting between the Red Wings and the Oilers. They are almost exclusively looking for impact players and are getting rewarded for it. Not everyone is going to pan out - that's just the nature of it - but they've made some very good bets. This is kind of ironic considering Detroit has been a playoff team all these years while we have had the luxury of making early picks, yet they have a much more stellar draft record. Goes to show that drafting outside the 1st round isn't a crapshoot but rather about making qualified bets. Kind of like poker, I'd imagine.
Horseradish
Registered User
To be fair, you don't just run out to the market Monday afternoon and pick up a Pronger in his prime.
That said, NYI has done a wonderful job of creative hole-plugging with the likes of Visnovsky, Boychuck, Hickey, and Leddy in the past 2-3 years.
Snow's done some wonky stuff, but he's been very crafty as well.
