The Kent Johnson thread

[majormajor]

IMO blue-chipper is about a top 20ish prospect in the world, a guy that is untouchable. Teams that draft them expect them to have a (relatively) immediate impact.

For example, in football a blue-chipper is usually a top100 4 or 5 star recruit. Not only Trevor Lawrence and Caleb Williams. There are blue chip camps where they invite the top recruits - hockey does this too.

I’d say all the guys you listed above would be considered blue-chippers, and a few of them franchise talents.

I guess I just equate blue chippers as the franchise talents. The guys who can’t miss.

KJ is definitely a top prospect though. I think we can all agree there

We're probably all just using the phrase differently. For me the "can't miss" part is the important part. You don't have to have elite upside, you just have to be guaranteed to be good. Like a blue chip stock. That wasn't KJ when he was drafted. Beniers was a blue-chipper while KJ was like a tech stock.

He's got to be a blue chipper now though. He's already putting up points and making a positive difference for his team in the NHL and that makes him a safer bet than just about any amateur prospect. He's currently pulling a 2.5 P/60, which is a topline caliber number. We should be able to relax.

 

[CBJx614]

I told you so regarding him being a blue chipper is much different than I told you so that he’s a 1C.

Yep, hopefully Sillinger isn’t on that list too. He is someone that people were saying was a borderline blue chipper when he was drafted


That he’s a blue chip prospect?

4th ranked prospect in NHL

The NHL's Top 100 Prospects - Midseason Rankings - The Hockey Writers Latest News, Analysis & More

Every team has articles ranking their top prospects. But how do they all compare together? This list takes a look at the top-100 prospects.

thehockeywriters.com

7th ranked prospect in NHL

Scott Wheeler's top 50 drafted NHL prospects ranking, 2022 edition

Where do Owen Power, Juraj Slafkovsky, Shane Wright and other top drafted NHL prospects rank on Scott Wheeler's list?

theathletic.com

8th ranked prospect in NHL

Top 75 NHL Affiliated Skater Prospects

Owen Power, Matty Beniers and Mason McTavish lead the NHL’s next crop of young talent.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

Top 10 u23 prospects are blue chippers. Aka untouchables.

For our sake, I hope Sillinger didn't peak last season.

 

[MoeBartoli]

Hes on pace for 50+ points playing 3rd line minutes with a revolving door of linemates. He was seen as the highest offesnsive potential player from his draft but had a few concerns. After 1 season of college hockey, tournaments and a short offseason hes improved on every single one of his deficiencies to varying amounts, some of them significantly. Sounds like a blue chipper to me. The fact many of us said he looked better as a center is just a cherry on top and I think its just a matter of time before he takes a center job.

Actually even more impressive when you are an ”assist-first guy” playing with rotating linemates who can’t convert to trigger an assist.

 

[tunnelvision]

Nothing wrong with patience per se but when it only applies to some of undeveloped young players it does sound a bit weird.

 

[Cowumbus]

Larsen worries about playing KJ high in the lineup bc he will go against Barkov/Reinhart, yet when those two were on the ice he always put out 50-7-24

Wow

 

[stevo61]

Larsen worries about playing KJ high in the lineup bc he will go against Barkov/Reinhart, yet when those two were on the ice he always put out 50-7-24

Wow

Barkov is gonna outmuscle him his whole career, I dont really get it. Just play the kid, he'll show you if he can handle it or not.

He didnt really care to be as patient with Sillinger as an 18 year old.

 

[Cowumbus]

Barkov is gonna outmuscle him his whole career, I dont really get it. Just play the kid, he'll show you if he can handle it or not.

My point is that, our 1st line does not even play against Barkov.

So how can Larsen say he’s worried about 91 playing against those guys, when 50-7-24 are playing those minutes?

 

[stevo61]

My point is that, our 1st line does not even play against Barkov.

So how can Larsen say he’s worried about 91 playing against those guys, when 50-7-24 are playing those minutes?

I know, but even if they do I dont get why hes seen keen on sheltering him. Against a guy like Bennett who may look to take your head off? Ok I guess, but they are all skills hes gotta learn. Hes already a pretty evasive guy as it is.
Larsen just seems guilty of overthinking in this disaster of a start to the season.

 

[tunnelvision]

My point is that, our 1st line does not even play against Barkov.

So how can Larsen say he’s worried about 91 playing against those guys, when 50-7-24 are playing those minutes?

Perhaps the key word here is "confidence"? He's indifferent to what adversities can do to that line mentally but top line or kids losing confidence worries him?

 

[Viqsi]

Larsen worries about playing KJ high in the lineup bc he will go against Barkov/Reinhart, yet when those two were on the ice he always put out 50-7-24

You try to stick to the matchups you want, but it doesn't always work out that way in the end. I don't think it's that big of a deal myself.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Kj is 3rd in nhl in rookie scoring race , playing 10-11 min per night . Kid is going to end up the best player in that draft

 

[ColumbusTrill]

My point is that, our 1st line does not even play against Barkov.

So how can Larsen say he’s worried about 91 playing against those guys, when 50-7-24 are playing those minutes?

Do teams not try to pair what they designate as their best defensive line vs the opponents best offensive one?

Just looking at the game score, barkov and verhaegie were two of the lowest rated forwards last night while kuraly and Robinson were two of our higher rated forwards

 

[Viqsi]

Do teams not try to pair what they designate as their best defensive line vs the opponents best offensive one?

Just looking at the game score, barkov and verhaegie were two of the lowest rated forwards last night while kuraly and Robinson were two of our higher rated forwards

The point he's trying to make is that since folks do try to make such matchups happen, that therefore "bad matchups" are not an excuse for not playing Johnson higher. I found it a bit confusing at first too.

I'm not sure the argument is a strong one 'cause there's so little control one has over deployments, admittedly. But he's not arguing that playing Robby/Kuraly/Olivier against the top line is somehow a bad idea.

 

[Cowumbus]

The point he's trying to make is that since folks do try to make such matchups happen, that therefore "bad matchups" are not an excuse for not playing Johnson higher.

It’s the coaches job to use the matchups to the teams advantage

I'm not sure the argument is a strong one 'cause there's so little control one has over deployments, admittedly.

When you play at home you do control these matchups, because you get last change.

But he's not arguing that playing Robby/Kuraly/Olivier against the top line is somehow a bad idea.

Exactly.
But to say you don’t want to play KJ in “difficult” matchups bc of the potential hit to his confidence makes zero sense - if the line he would play on (Gaudreau’s) would not be out there against Barkov.


This whole thing is stupid. Reminds me of when Torts didn’t want to play Peeke bc he didn’t want to hurt his confidence.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

But to say you don’t want to play KJ in “difficult” matchups bc of the potential hit to his confidence makes zero sense - if the line he would play on (Gaudreau’s) would not be out there against Barkov.

Also Brad seems to only equate "difficulty" in matchup by who he's out there against, not who he's out there with.

Which is better for his development?

Option A: 15 minutes, good linemates, good competition, more highs/lows
Option B: 10 minutes, bad linemates, weak competition, low event frequency

Brad's positioning option B as "protecting Kent" when really he's just being risk-averse. If you give Kent a real top six role, he's gonna make mistakes, but he's also going to be playing with guys who can actually capitalize on his talents.

Kent is a rink rat and a student of the game. He's the type of guy who will learn from mistakes and gain confidence from successes. If you want him to play on a top line in the next few years, he needs to learn how to play with good players.

He's not going to have success if you put him out there to chase the puck with Gaunce and Bemstrom. Even if they get possession, those guys are turnover machines. You're putting way more weight on Kent's shoulders that way because he has to carry the whole line, and you're making it hard for him to learn how to be consistent because he's not playing many minutes.

 

[VT]

Kent still has a lack of strength. I think it's a reason why Lars doesn't want so that he plays more and he has started to play winger. Look at his play at the boards. I only think he could be tried on the center at least a part of games. Especially in the third line which has played little time.

 

[majormajor]

Nothing wrong with patience per se but when it only applies to some of undeveloped young players it does sound a bit weird.

Yeah we've been absolutely burying young players in Lars' tenure. Lots of lost confidence. Then KJ comes along, who is the most ready of them in my opinion....

Do teams not try to pair what they designate as their best defensive line vs the opponents best offensive one?

Sometimes. Some coaches don't try to do that.

Just looking at the game score, barkov and verhaegie were two of the lowest rated forwards last night while kuraly and Robinson were two of our higher rated forwards

I did see them matched against each other in DZone starts but I can't imagine it was all game. It rarely ever is in the regular season.

I can't remember if there is a way to look up the exact matchups.

It’s the coaches job to use the matchups to the teams advantage

When you play at home you do control these matchups, because you get last change.

Something like 50-60% of starts would be on the fly I think.

My impression is that Kuraly's line mostly goes out there for D zone draws. The rest is going to be a mess. Everyone playing everyone.

 

[cbjthrowaway]

Kent still has a lack of strength. I think it's a reason why Lars doesn't want so that he plays more and he has started to play winger. Look at his play at the boards. I only think he could be tried on the center at least a part of games. Especially in the third line which has played little time.

Not every player has to check every box IMO. Kent's supposed lack of strength shouldn't preclude him from playing a large role when he's been more effective than almost every other forward on the roster.

Other players on the roster have equally glaring flaws (Gaudreau's even smaller, Boone can't do anything but go north-south, etc) but are good enough in other areas to get by and impact the game. Kent is the same way – he has the best hands/offensive IQ on the team of anyone not named Gaudreau.

 

[VT]

Not every player has to check every box IMO. Kent's supposed lack of strength shouldn't preclude him from playing a large role when he's been more effective than almost every other forward on the roster.

Other players on the roster have equally glaring flaws (Gaudreau's even smaller, Boone can't do anything but go north-south, etc) but are good enough in other areas to get by and impact the game. Kent is the same way – he has the best hands/offensive IQ on the team of anyone not named Gaudreau.

Gaudreau has more experiences and, as you write, he's skiller. It's a reason why I think Kent has played less. I understand it now. But if Lars does it longer, it would be, diplomatically speaking, quite strange.

Btw I would like to try:

Foudy -- Johnson -- Laine

Again, TRY. Maybe this line might to help Liam. Only please, not Gaunce.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Anyone comments from Larsen on playing him at C?

 

[ThisIsMyAlibi]

I was watching Johnson pretty intently against the Panthers, in person. He doesn’t look too small on the ice. Which is good. He ate a hard hit near the boards. He took himself off the ice after that but I wasn’t sure if it was a line change in progress. Didn’t seem to like it. But who would?

 

[JacketsDavid]

I am fine playing him on the 3rd line - to me it's the way Rick Nash was developed.
I know everybody develops in their own way but we likely have screwed up some guys by pushing too hard early (Zherdev) who had elite talents but never put everything together.

 

[VT]

I understand Lars, he wants to be careful. But maybe we could try to move him play the 3th line center with limited minutes or rotate positions. Roslovic is inconsistent, plus he's more of a winger.
But please, no Gaunce and, especially, Fix-Wolanski with him.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Kent Johnson is on a 51-point pace as a 20 year old rookie. He is 2nd in points/60 at 5v5 (behind only Beniers) among rookies and 54th in points/60 at 5v5 among all skaters.

In all situations he ranks 5th in points/60 (skewed because he doesn't PK, others do, etc.) among rookies. He ranks 81st in that stat among all skaters who have played at least 100 minutes this season.

He is behind only Johnny Gaudreau in points/60 on the CBJ, both at 5v5 and all strengths.

For the first time last night, he took more than one faceoff (1W/1L) as he played center for a couple shifts, I believe.

Still, Larsen and co. have his TOI at <13 minutes/game, ahead of only Olivier and Foudy among Jackets who have played more than 5 games this season.

Either play the kid in the top 6 on the wing or get him time at center (either in Columbus or Cleveland). This "oh no, a skilled kid...we can't give him 16 minutes a game yet!" treatment is just stupid.

 

[ColumbusTrill]

This "oh no, a skilled kid...we can't give him 16 minutes a game yet!" treatment is just stupid.

I don’t think this is why. He isn’t physically ready to play big minutes in pro hockey. He’s also going to play way more games in a season than he ever has in his life. We are a quarter the way into the season and role is increasing lately, albeit gradual (playing some top line shifts with jg and taking faceoffs). There have been a lot of gripes with the team this year but I don’t think how they’ve handled KJ has been a big issue