The Joe Veleno rule?

Should there be a rule to prevent players from winning medals in special situations?

  • Yes

    Votes: 28 27.7%
  • No

    Votes: 73 72.3%

  • Total voters
    101
  • Poll closed .

DudeWhereIsMakar

Bergevin sent me an offer sheet
Apr 25, 2014
15,687
6,753
Winnipeg
I think what he's trying to say is they're not allowed to play for the remainder of the tournament and if the team does win the suspended player won't count as winning a medal.

I'm 50/50 on that.

But one thing to test here is what if Raffi Torres was allowed to play in the World Championship?
 

Snowwy

Registered User
Jan 29, 2006
198
161
Reminds me of Lias Andersson, captain of the Swedish world junior team in 2018 who threw his silver medal over the glass into the crowd because he was so salty his team lost the gold medal game to Canada. Probably one of the most pathetic displays in international hockey history.
Unsurprisingly, that seems likely to be the peak of his career as well.
 
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jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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But he wasn't. Being tossed means completely removed from any victory reward.
no it doesn't...................it means being tossed from the games.

which you saw, he was tossed from the games but received his gold medal.

There you go. The IIHF itself proved what I said.

this whole joe veleno rule business was ridiculous from the moment the thread was created and thankfully most fans understood that, a complete waste of a typing exercise.

He wasnt killing babies or anything, like i said before..............move on.
 
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jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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Trying to end his fellow player's career is anything.
Trying to?

You sure of this? you know that was his intention? Did you see this in an interview somewhere perhaps? please provide some proof of his intentions you are so sure of.. It couldn't possibly have been merely a stupid hot head move by a stupid player?

Hey this has cleared up so much now!! we can all KNOW now for sure every time we see a hit from behind it was the offending players intention to put that player into a wheelchair for the rest of his life.


Come on now, no need to dramatize and simply make things up.
 
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Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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How good can your intent possibly be when you're trying to hit someone with a blade? To me it can at most make things even worse.
 

jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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How good can your intent possibly be when you're trying to hit someone with a blade? To me it can at most make things even worse.
No one said his intent was any good for gods sake. How could it be?......he drove his skate into the back of the guys leg.

Now you are making things up about posters, trying to make it seem like they are saying he did it as an act of altruism or something. Where on earth are you reading this from?

Cripes..........what's next out of you?
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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What's next is that at least I don't want to see Veleno in international hockey ever again, and the medal he did receive is worth nothing but the dime he can pawn it for.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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At least now you're not making stuff up.
A rather funny thing to say when even in your very last post you claimed that "he drove his skate into the back of the guys leg." Did you even see the incident you're so ardently debating here?

stomp.gif
 

Peat

Registered User
Jun 14, 2016
29,570
25,400
If you're gonna change any rules based on Veleno, have a video ref that's encouraged to tell the on ice refs that they need to check the jumbotron for foul play and issue correct judgment based on it.
 

jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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A rather funny thing to say when even in your very last post you claimed that "he drove his skate into the back of the guys leg." Did you even see the incident you're so ardently debating here?

stomp.gif
Hadn't seen it since the actual game when the play took place.The back, the side................whatever, you're just reaching and picking out some strict detail on a play in a game that happened awhile ago now to cover yourself man.


You know full well that your claim that Veleno made that play to purposefully end a guys career was ridiculous.
 
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saintunspecified

Registered User
Nov 30, 2017
6,066
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We'd all be singing a different tune, had the results of his action been far worse. Had it it been worse, I think we're stepping into McSorely/Bertuzzi territory.
100% about the bolded. Absolutely. I don't know how you sugar coat that.

The relevant comparison is Chris Simon's stomp on Jarkko Ruutu. It's worth watching the the video on that. Howie Rose (NYI's announcer at the time) is pretty clearly disgusted.

Trying to?

You sure of this? you know that was his intention? Did you see this in an interview somewhere perhaps? please provide some proof of his intentions you are so sure of.. It couldn't possibly have been merely a stupid hot head move by a stupid player?

Hey this has cleared up so much now!! we can all KNOW now for sure every time we see a hit from behind it was the offending players intention to put that player into a wheelchair for the rest of his life.


Come on now, no need to dramatize and simply make things up.
I always find it remarkable when people go off on things like this. The intentions of others are always inferred from their actions. In many cases (the range in which this is true is a matter for serious psychological & philosophical debate) people also infer their own intentions from their actions.

In reality it's not very important. If a person stabs someone and they die from the wound, it's second degree murder whether or not the attacker believed a fatal wound would result from the stabbing. Similarly, if Veleno ended a career, he would be responsible for it whether or not the thought crossed his mind.

If what Veleno did wasn't a 'deliberate attempt to injure', I don't what is. It would be a predictable consequence of that attempt to injure, were it successful, for that injury to be career ending.

Can someone clarify - was Veleno involved in a medal ceremony? If so, I'd like to hear Hockey Canada's reason for the decision to have him present. That sounds like a bad job to me, but I don't know the details.
 

Albatros

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Aug 19, 2017
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Hadn't seen it since the actual game when the play took place.The back, the side................whatever, you're just reaching and picking out some strict detail on a play in a game that happened awhile ago now to cover yourself man.


You know full well that your claim that Veleno made that play to purposefully end a guys career was ridiculous.
When you hit someone's leg or ankle with a blade the only thing you can expect is serious injury. There is no other way to look at it than intent to injure. If the outcome is anything less that's mere luck.
 
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MeHateHe

Registered User
Dec 24, 2006
2,475
2,795
If the IIHF or the tournament directorate made a player ineligible indefinitely for whatever heinous crime committed, I could see that sanction then applying to the awarding of medals.

Conceptually, I suppose, you could argue that the tournament directorate said that Veleno was done for the 2023 tournament, and thus he shouldn't have been eligible to participate in the on-ice medal ceremony. (Was he there?) The suspension was for five games, which was the number of games Canada had remaining. He is eligible to play in 2024. And before anyone suggests otherwise, the suspension doesn't end until the conclusion of the ceremonies following the fifth game.

But that's not what is being proposed here. What this thread is about is some moral high-horsing, a term I just made up right now. We want to arbitrarily say that some things are so bad we get to make up extra punishments because we think a player is a bad guy.

Veleno's actions were bad. They weren't Marty McSorley bad or Todd Bertuzzi bad, in part because there was no real consequence to them. That's important, because if Veleno actually went into that situation wanting to end the player's career by stomping on him, I think he could have done so.

We live in a brief part of time where we want declare people either good or bad. Bad people, we have decided, don't deserve anything but negative consequences, forever and always. We want to punish bad people, continually and repeatedly. Bad people should never have nice things. Because Joe Veleno did a very bad thing, he should never have happiness ever again, so the fact that he was a small part in a gold medal-winning team should be erased from history forever.

I hope Veleno doesn't represent Canada again, because I don't trust him enough to not do something stupid. But that's entirely different than what's being proposed here. He was suspended for five games because the IIHF thought his actions were terrible. That's his punishment and we don't get to keep punishing him just because we think he's one of The Bad Ones.
 

GirardSpinorama

Registered User
Aug 20, 2004
21,202
9,918
History books will remember veleano for this particular tournament as being suspended anyways. No one would care that he has a medal won by his teammates. It's really just an extra physical medal that's wasted.
 

jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
15,089
8,512
Nova Scotia
100% about the bolded. Absolutely. I don't know how you sugar coat that.

The relevant comparison is Chris Simon's stomp on Jarkko Ruutu. It's worth watching the the video on that. Howie Rose (NYI's announcer at the time) is pretty clearly disgusted.


I always find it remarkable when people go off on things like this. The intentions of others are always inferred from their actions. In many cases (the range in which this is true is a matter for serious psychological & philosophical debate) people also infer their own intentions from their actions.

In reality it's not very important. If a person stabs someone and they die from the wound, it's second degree murder whether or not the attacker believed a fatal wound would result from the stabbing. Similarly, if Veleno ended a career, he would be responsible for it whether or not the thought crossed his mind.

If what Veleno did wasn't a 'deliberate attempt to injure', I don't what is. It would be a predictable consequence of that attempt to injure, were it successful, for that injury to be career ending.

Can someone clarify - was Veleno involved in a medal ceremony? If so, I'd like to hear Hockey Canada's reason for the decision to have him present. That sounds like a bad job to me, but I don't know the details.
It was certainly a deliberate intent to injure but to say you know for sure it was done in the moment with ending a players career specifically in mind is quite another thing altogether and you damn well know it.

Those are two different things.
 

jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
15,089
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Nova Scotia
When you hit someone's leg or ankle with a blade the only thing you can expect is serious injury. There is no other way to look at it than intent to injure. If the outcome is anything less that's mere luck.
I'm aware it was an intent to injure, what YOU are not aware of and certainly don't know for sure is whether when he did it he was thinking......"I am doing this in hopes the guy never plays another minute of hockey again"

Don't bullshit and claim that you do. That's all I'm saying here. You were overstepping there when you made that claim as some sort of fact, period.

There have been scores of dirty plays over the years and it's usually just some asshole who loses his shit and does something incredibly stupid, which is LIKELY the scenario with Veleno.
 
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WarriorofTime

Registered User
Jul 3, 2010
28,980
17,148
I'm shocked this is still a discussion, who cares if he picked up a medal his teammates won. It's not like he's going to the hall of fame.
 
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jj cale

Registered User
Jan 5, 2016
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I'm shocked this is still a discussion, who cares if he picked up a medal his teammates won. It's not like he's going to the hall of fame.
I'm shocked I cared at all, Canada won and that's all that matters.

They can start a petition to have Veleno impaled if they want, what difference should it make to me as long as they have to bow to the altar of Canadian hockey for the thousandth time? I lost sight of the big picture for a moment.


How blind I have been,
 
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Jimmy71

Registered User
Apr 2, 2022
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I'm shocked I cared at all, Canada won and that's all that matters.

They can start a petition to have Veleno impaled if they want, what difference should it make to me as long as they have to bow to the altar of Canadian hockey for the thousandth time? I lost sight of the big picture for a moment.


How blind I have been,
JJ
We won and that's all that matters. Veleno made a very stupid play and likely will never represent Canada again
 
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