The Jim Benning and Management Megathread - CAD got you down? He has you covered

[CherryToke]

You must've missed the maroon pic.

maroon is not a tough guy.

and Kassian has no clue how to make a good hit which doesn't help when trying to intimidate..

 

[arsmaster*]

since when does Kassian intimidate anyone? pretty much any real tough guy can drop him..

Since everytime he entered a scrum it ended.

Fighting isn't intimidating. Good players don't care.

I don't think there is a player in the NHL who is scared to play Dorsett or Prust. They're middleweights who fight and lose to tougher players. If they didn't fight they would be in the AHL.

 

[Mofletz]

You must've missed the maroon pic.

The entire Oilers Luke Gazdic situation was handle poorly by Kassian.

 

[arsmaster*]

The entire Oilers Luke Gazdic situation was handle poorly by Kassian.

What not fighting a guy in the league solely on fighting skill. Why would he?

He's trying to establish himself as a player not a puncher.

 

[Mofletz]

What not fighting a guy in the league solely on fighting skill. Why would he?

He's trying to establish himself as a player not a puncher.

Only one fight is required, Get over the problem in their 1st game. Then he could continue to establish himself as a player.

Instead it drags an entire year +. In those games, IIRC it seemed like Kassian was intimidated by Gazdic. Didn't hit or anything just chirp like burr.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Yall got some revisionist history.

We'll see how Montreal handles Kassian (sounds like the right way).
I'll bet career high goals and points.

 

[Mofletz]

Yall got some revisionist history.

We'll see how Montreal handles Kassian (sounds like the right way).
I'll bet career high goals and points.

Kassian had it easy with AV, and Willie. MT is a totally different story.

 

[sting101]

He's 24. And was 22-23 for the events being discussed. Let's not make stuff up.

Bertuzzi played the exact opposite of a traditional PF game. He rarely fought, was sporadically physical, and relied mostly on his talent and puck skills.

But who cares? How does linking a player's style to his role model matter? All that matters is that he's being an effective hockey player. And he was. And yes, management should be blamed for trying to turn him into something he wasn't.

And, again, this 3/4 coaches stuff is garbage. Tortorella was hugely complimental of Kassian at the conclusion of the 13-14 season. And Kassian barely played for Ruff and Vigeault at the age of 20-21. He's had significant problems with 1 coach.

If I remember it right.....

Under AV Zack was almost shipped off to Chicago(AHL). The team was prepared to get rid of him for the remainder of the 12/13 season to teach him a lesson they were so frustrated with him. If playing time is a coaches reward it's safe to say Vigneault had a few problems with Kassian.

Tortz also spent the entire front half of the 13/14 season trying to get Zack to play a responsible game with a multitude of demotions. Your right about his finish.

As far as "all it matters is he's being an effective player" this is your opinion. He wasn't with his past 3 coaches. They all had issue with his effectiveness and his willingness to do what was asked or expected.(so much so that he couldn't lock a role down). His status was splattered through the media on a constant basis. Unlike the cold and hot streaks associated with almost every other player that were merely footnotes.

I think it's fair to attack JB's analysis, treatment and in conclusion.....a terrible mis-management of a extremely enigmatic player with serious upside for garbage value trade.

I think it's safe to say that if Benning thinks your not giving 100% commitment to his team and role that your gonna be discarded in a rapid and unruly matter. Value be damned.

A catch phrase used in sports..."everyone has to be pulling on the rope in the same direction" or "your either part of the solution or part of the problem".....it's cliche but IMO it has some merits.

It appears JB, the Bruins, Linden, Willie all reside by this mantra. It can bite you in the ass when a young player finally comes of age and takes the next steps, mostly it just spits players in different directions without too much fanfare....."he just needed a fresh start".

I think I share the fan bases frustration with moves like this in that it is so very hard to acquire 1st round picks and young players with size that can play and we just tossed one away for nothing(sorry Prust) so that Benning can create his CULTure.

 

[Intangibos]

If Linden truly believes in "you're either part of the solution or part of the problem", I fully expect to see Linden fire Benning by January.

I'd be willing to bet that doesn't happen.

They seem to live by a "our way or the highway" mantra, as evidenced by their firings of our competent staff like Gilman and Crawford. The problem is this mantra only works when their way is the right way.

 

[sting101]

Why is Sbisa a finished product....worthless to most of the fan base and Kassian is a young player with huge upside and value?

It is kinda funny that the only value that Zack could return after 6 months of shopping was the better part of **** all. Why can't 29 other GM's see what we see?

 

[me2]

Why is Sbisa a finished product....worthless to most of the fan base and Kassian is a young player with huge upside and value?

It is kinda funny that the only value that Zack could return after 6 months of shopping was the better part of **** all. Why can't 29 other GM's see what we see?

Because Kassian flashes signs of the player he could be. Sbisa just flashes signs of Sbisa.

 

[pahlsson]

who cares about upside and being a finished product

if kassian stopped developing today he'd be at worst an inconsistent 3rd liner

if sbisa stopped developing today (or 7 years ago but who's counting) he'd still be one of the worst dmen in the nhl

 

[Intangibos]

Why is Sbisa a finished product....worthless to most of the fan base and Kassian is a young player with huge upside and value?

It is kinda funny that the only value that Zack could return after 6 months of shopping was the better part of **** all. Why can't 29 other GM's see what we see?

You argument implies that we didn't get better offers, or that he actively shopped Kassian. It's much more likely that we asked about Prust and Montreal asked for Kassian. Shrewd move by them knowing full well that Benning never gets fair value and doesn't like Kassian, they knew they could get him for next to nothing.

 

[RandV]

You argument implies that we didn't get better offers, or that he actively shopped Kassian. It's much more likely that we asked about Prust and Montreal asked for Kassian. Shrewd move by them knowing full well that Benning never gets fair value and doesn't like Kassian, they knew they could get him for next to nothing.

They also knew they could hit up Benning for a little extra to sweeten the deal

 

[DL44]

Yall got some revisionist history.

We'll see how Montreal handles Kassian (sounds like the right way).
I'll bet career high goals and points.

Thresholds are pretty modest.. would take:
15g, 30pts.

I hope he hit's em this yr.

 

[bossram]

to get back on topic, yeah, confirming whether kassian is even close to a bertuzzi career path is not necessary to conclude that it was a terrible trade

fair enough if management made the decision that kassian didn't fit in the long term plans of the club, but it doesn't excuse the absolutely shocking value they received in the trade

No it does not.

 

[bossram]

Why is Sbisa a finished product....worthless to most of the fan base and Kassian is a young player with huge upside and value?

It is kinda funny that the only value that Zack could return after 6 months of shopping was the better part of **** all. Why can't 29 other GM's see what we see?

Benning's actions thus far haven't indicated he shops for "value". Based on adding the pick to Kassian, it's entirely likely Prust was one of Benning's "targets" and like Sutter, Sbisa, Dorsett, Miller, etc, paid through the roof just to land his preferred player.

Bottom-line: we traded the younger, cheaper and better player PLUS a pick for an aging, redundant, UFA to be. Even if Kassian didn't fit, I'm absolutely sure Benning could have made a better trade. NYI managed to reel in FIVE middling to low-end prospects for Grabner. Surely Benning could have managed to trade Kassian for even one or two of those prospect and have done so WITHOUT adding a pick.

GMs know Benning is a bumbling idiot in negotiations. They exploit him for value.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Also they knew Benning wanted rid of him, so all they had to do was wait until the price drops to basically nothing.

 

[VanillaCoke]

I thought there was a quote that Benning targeted Prust. Bergevin just said kassian was the price. Good for Montreal a cheaper younger better replacement for an aging soon to be ufa

 

[Jack Tripper]

who cares about upside and being a finished product

if kassian stopped developing today he'd be at worst an inconsistent 3rd liner

if sbisa stopped developing today (or 7 years ago but who's counting) he'd still be one of the worst dmen in the nhl

pretty much

if both players plateaued development at the end of last season, one player would be producing 30-40 es points/year (without pp time) while providing secondary toughness in the next few seasons while the other player would be consistently around dead last in nhl possession metrics

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Thresholds are pretty modest.. would take:
15g, 30pts.

I hope he hit's em this yr.

Well, those would also be career highs for Prust. And we traded a younger, cheaper, tougher player for him and threw in a draft pick.

 

[RandV]

If I remember it right.....

Under AV Zack was almost shipped off to Chicago(AHL). The team was prepared to get rid of him for the remainder of the 12/13 season to teach him a lesson they were so frustrated with him. If playing time is a coaches reward it's safe to say Vigneault had a few problems with Kassian.

He was 21 years old with a single pro season under his belt. It's perfectly reasonable for a kid that age to split time between the NHL & AHL, that's why you have two-way contracts and waiver eligibility. I can't recall any frustrations that showed the level of animosity Willie did beyond the usual growing pains you're going to go through breaking a young player into the league.

AV just doesn't really count here.

 

[sting101]

He was 21 years old with a single pro season under his belt. It's perfectly reasonable for a kid that age to split time between the NHL & AHL, that's why you have two-way contracts and waiver eligibility. I can't recall any frustrations that showed the level of animosity Willie did beyond the usual growing pains you're going to go through breaking a young player into the league.

AV just doesn't really count here.

When Gillis acquired Kassian he said that he was going to be able to help us immediately.

Fast forward a season and AV was still using Zack more playing with Tom Sestito on the 4th line than he was with the twins.

The point that I made was that the coach and management were so pissed off with Zack and his play and rehab efforts leading up to the deadline that had they acquired Torres or Ryan Clowe who they were trying for.....Zack was gonna be sent to Chicago for the remainder of the season.

This is hardly something you can gloss over as a young player developing. So yeah..AV does count

 

[Ryp37]

Only one fight is required, Get over the problem in their 1st game. Then he could continue to establish himself as a player.

Instead it drags an entire year +. In those games, IIRC it seemed like Kassian was intimidated by Gazdic. Didn't hit or anything just chirp like burr.

Kass made Gazdic look like an idiot, Gazdic chirped from the bench before the 3rd, Kassian told him you won't even play this period

Sure enough Gazdic got 1 maybe 2 shifts and his team lost

 

[DL44]

Well, those would also be career highs for Prust. And we traded a younger, cheaper, tougher player for him and threw in a draft pick.

Prust's contribution apparently isn't measured in mere production.