The Jim Benning and Management Megathread - CAD got you down? He has you covered

[Jimson Hogarth*]

It beats paying a $12M premium for an older, worse group of players who have little to no asset value.

No it doesn't. Keeping the status quo when your two best players were drafted in the 1990s is not an option.

 

[opendoor]

No it doesn't. Keeping the status quo when your two best players were drafted in the 1990s is not an option.

Funny you mention age, since the more expensive group is also 2.5 years older on average than the cheaper, younger, and better group.

And I'm not sure how keeping Miller as starter and giving fat extensions to Dorsett and Sbisa are anti status quo moves. Or how giving the reigns to a young goalie in Lack, putting a 24 year old power forward into a more prominent position, or keeping Bonino and Richardson who'd been in the organization for 1 and 2 years respectively is "same old same old".

 

[sandwichbird2023]

No it doesn't. Keeping the status quo when your two best players were drafted in the 1990s is not an option.

Well I guess spending $12M more of Auqaman's money while getting worst on all positions is definitely an 'option'. Not my money so I don't really care, but if it was my money I'd be furious.

 

[Pip]

Well I guess spending $12M more of Auqaman's money while getting worst on all positions is definitely an 'option'. Not my money so I don't really care, but if it was my money I'd be furious.

Not to mention the cost of all the video that Sbisa watches.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Having too many forwards im a little bit scared of what benning might do before opening day.

 

[Ryp37]

Having too many forwards im a little bit scared of what benning might do before opening day.

Well if he was smart he could try to move the odd man out for a depth D but he'd probably throw in a pick

 

[vanuck]

Wouldn't that be an admittance that it worked.

Sounds exactly like we were thrown off our game by the Bruins willingness to engage in activities that aren't hockey. We took the bait. They won with a less skilled team.

We were sucked into their game, but I don't think it was due to the way intimidation was intended to - or even that we were intimidated. I think we were too focused on that other stuff instead of just playing as much as possible like they'd done all year.

 

[F A N]

Even if Sutter fits this team better than Bonino, we had all the leverage and they should have paid us to take Sutter and give them Bonino. We are just losing all of our assets for nothing, I can't wrap my head around how it's justified in some people's heads.

Sutter was an asset for the Penguins. Bonino was an asset for the Canucks. The Canucks could have negotiated a better deal but they had little leverage.

 

[Ryp37]

Sutter was an asset for the Penguins. Bonino was an asset for the Canucks. The Canucks could have negotiated a better deal but they had little leverage.

Penguins needed to shed salary, that should be leverage enough

Instead they swapped the higher pick and threw Clendenning in

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Funny you mention age, since the more expensive group is also 2.5 years older on average than the cheaper, younger, and better group.

yes, that's how the bottom 6 in the NHL works...young players establish themselves as bottom 6 mainstays and then get paid a bit more come UFA years, when they've proven themselves and are covetted around the league.. I hope that some of our young players can carve themselves out careers like Prust or Dorse. God, wouldn't it be great if one day Kenins showed enough over the next couple years to score a contract like Dorse or Prust? I'd be so happy we are finally developing home grown NHL talent that is good enough in this league to secure good contracts for themselves. Awesome!

And I'm not sure how keeping Miller as starter and giving fat extensions to Dorsett and Sbisa are anti status quo moves. Or how giving the reigns to a young goalie in Lack, putting a 24 year old power forward into a more prominent position, or keeping Bonino and Richardson who'd been in the organization for 1 and 2 years respectively is "same old same old".

Sedins Hamhuis Tanev Miller Dorse Vrbata etc provide stability and a framework with which we can rebuild sensibly and stably.

No scorched earths here. Richardson must have been a tough decision. He scored himself a great contract, one I'm sure people here would be complaining about ad nauseum had we beat that offer.

 

[WTG]

Sutter was an asset for the Penguins. Bonino was an asset for the Canucks. The Canucks could have negotiated a better deal but they had little leverage.

What are you talking about?

Canucks never had to trade Bonino. If we don't have leverage then why trade?

Also, we had leverage penguins had to shed cap. Bonino is a cheap option. He has one of the best contracts in the NHL. Plus he had 2 more years on that deal!! That is a incredibly valuable asset.

Then in typical Benning fashion he added in some goodies a higher pick and a good prospect.

Now we are stuck with the more expensive, worse overall player and we are in a worse position then we were before the trade. This trade is a lose short term and a lose long term. There is no arguing that this deal is somehow beneficial to the canucks because it isn't. There is no way you can spin this into a win.

Reality is that when Benning is a bad asset manager. Terrible asset manager.

This is the guy who gave a 1.75m contract to a player with 0 goals scored in 100+ games when he had Stanton a perfectly serviceable 6-7th defenseman that is younger and cheaper/had more potential and just dumped him.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

Sutter was an asset for the Penguins. Bonino was an asset for the Canucks. The Canucks could have negotiated a better deal but they had little leverage.

Sutter was a UFA, with salary demands Pittsburgh couldn't afford after acquiring Kessel. Meanwhile, Bonino is a better player, costs less than half of Sutter's eventual extension and comes with comparable success on the playoff despite his off season here. In what universe did we lack leverage?

 

[Samzilla]

Sutter was a UFA, with salary demands Pittsburgh couldn't afford after acquiring Kessel. Meanwhile, Bonino is a better player, costs less than half of Sutter's eventual extension and comes with comparable success on the playoff despite his off season here. In what universe did we lack leverage?

We lack leverage in this universe where it matters most...a competent GM.

 

[CherryToke]

Canucks never had to trade Bonino. If we don't have leverage then why trade?

if Benning planned on improving the team he had to trade him. can't win in the playoffs with his slow ass playing a role in the top 3 lines. not saying Sutter will fix everything but I find it refreshing that our GM is not afraid to make changes when something doesn't clearly work out. instead of staying status quo and pretending everything is ok.

 

[Ryp37]

if Benning planned on improving the team he had to trade him. can't win in the playoffs with his slow ass playing a role in the top 3 lines. not saying Sutter will fix everything but I find it refreshing that our GM is not afraid to make changes when something doesn't clearly work out. instead of staying status quo and pretending everything is ok.

When you factor in contracts Boninos flexbility>Sutters not yet proven foundational contract

 

[canucksfan]

if Benning planned on improving the team he had to trade him. can't win in the playoffs with his slow ass playing a role in the top 3 lines. not saying Sutter will fix everything but I find it refreshing that our GM is not afraid to make changes when something doesn't clearly work out. instead of staying status quo and pretending everything is ok.

He's making the wrong changes though.

 

[Pip]

Sutter was an asset for the Penguins. Bonino was an asset for the Canucks. The Canucks could have negotiated a better deal but they had little leverage.

We had tons of leverage. The Penguins needed to deal Sutter more than we needed to deal Bonino

 

[RandV]

Ultimately it came down to Benning viewed Sutter as a gritty 25 goal second line center so that's the price he willingly paid, both to Pittsburgh and Sutter's agent.

 

[Scurr]

Ultimately it came down to Benning viewed Sutter as a gritty 25 goal second line center so that's the price he willingly paid, both to Pittsburgh and Sutter's agent.

I thought Bonino/1st/Sbisa and 6.85m was the price of a gritty 25 goal 2nd line centre?

 

[Proto]

if Benning planned on improving the team he had to trade him. can't win in the playoffs with his slow ass playing a role in the top 3 lines. not saying Sutter will fix everything but I find it refreshing that our GM is not afraid to make changes when something doesn't clearly work out. instead of staying status quo and pretending everything is ok.

Bonino makes less money than the average Canucks 4th liner.

 

[Ryp37]

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=779209

“I think the West has gotten real fast,” said Benning. “Teams are either built one of two ways. There are big, strong, physical teams that control the puck and play a heavy game. And then the other thing we’ve seen the last couple years are real fast teams. Teams that play with speed. I think Brandon’s going to help us out in that area. He’s a good skater. He’s fast. He gets in on the forecheck so he’ll help with our overall team speed.”

So is Jim trying to do both or neither

 

[Proto]

I thought Bonino/1st/Sbisa and 6.85m was the price of a gritty 25 goal 2nd line centre?

Isn't that basically close to what they gave up?

Bonino = Bonino
Late 1st = late 3rd (the cost to move up 10-20 spots in the draft into the back half of the 2nd round) + Clendening/Forsling (whichever you value higher) + whatever negative asset value Sbisa would have in a trade for 29/30 GMs in the league?

It's probably equivalent to at least Bonino + early 2nd for Sutter. I bet you could find 5 GM's in the league that would give you a 2nd round pick (say around 35-45) for Forsling and a mid 3rd round pick. On Sbisa's current deal, you might have to give a team another 3rd just to take the contract...

 

[Proto]

http://canucks.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=779209

“I think the West has gotten real fast,†said Benning. “Teams are either built one of two ways. There are big, strong, physical teams that control the puck and play a heavy game. And then the other thing we’ve seen the last couple years are real fast teams. Teams that play with speed. I think Brandon’s going to help us out in that area. He’s a good skater. He’s fast. He gets in on the forecheck so he’ll help with our overall team speed.â€

So is Jim trying to do both or neither

This is exactly what makes Benning a bad GM. Everything is a simplified binary. Teams don't just get "real fast" without also doing that whole possessing the puck thing. Real fast, rips the puck, big body. Rinse and repeat. If a guy does two of those things well or one of 'em really well, Jim loves him.

 

[Balls Mahoney]

Watching the Canucks twitter feed is hilarious. You'd think Sutter and Prust are superstars with the way the Canucks' propaganda is focusing on them and presenting them. They're trying real hard to sell these guys and those trades to the casuals.

I don't mind the Sutter trade so much aside from the stupidity of dropping 20-40 spots next year in the draft in the top 90 for no reason.

But presenting Prust on such a big level is going to boomerang hard on the Canucks.

 

[CherryToke]

Bonino makes less money than the average Canucks 4th liner.

playing Bonino on the 4th line is a waste of an asset if you can get a player better suited for the 3rd line for him. playing him on any of the top 3 lines makes the team slow.