The Jim Benning and Management Megathread - CAD got you down? He has you covered

[Zaddy91]

There is a very real possibility that Virtanen goes back to junior, he is still very raw at the NHL level. There is also a possibility that Horvat goes through a sophomore slump, did you ever think that might happen in your world view.

If Horvat slumps we probably draft top 3.

I don't think he will. And Jake is a specimen.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Injuries happen, having rookies as your 13th forward isn't a bad thing.

You're simply wrong to say Higgins and Hansen can and won't be replaced by Virtanen if he is dominant

The chances of Virtanen, or almost any rookie, being dominant are extremely slim. What Virtanen needs is a sheltered role in the bottom 6. He won't get that because we have too many veterans. Ditto with Kenins. They'll be in the lineup sporadically at best assuming no injuries.

That's not a youth movement.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Vancouver’s biggest undoing, though, is themselves. The team had the worst off-season on paper of anyone in the league to the cost of three true-talent wins. Nearly everything Vancouver did this off-season was a mistake that weakened the team’s depth. The Prust-Kassian swap was perhaps the most confusing as Kassian is a solid depth contributor, while Prust is completely replaceable.
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Kassian was an injury prone defensively lazy player that had a questionable off-ice work ethic and conduct if all reports are true. This is NOT the type of guy you want in the lockerroom with guys like Horvat, etc., coming up through the system.

Prust and Dorsett anchoring that 4th line, will rub off extremely well on a guy like Gaunce, Cassells, or even Vey (i.e. nullify Vey's weak physicality) should they be the team's 4th line center.

Prust can easily be flipped at the deadline for a pick. Kassian on the other hand, if he faltered again this season, would have commanded little to no value.

While the depth is barely there, the top group still looks formidable. The Canucks top three D-men are strong, especially the underrated Chris Tanev, and they still have the Sedin twins at their disposal (although they’re getting up there in age). They’re the only thing keeping the Canucks afloat and if they don’t drop off too much then the Canucks might be able to stay competitive. Alex Burrows is still very solid despite his point totals decreasing and Vrbata is probably underrated here, but after that there’s not much to like.

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata should still be a decent scoring line. They might be one year older, but they should still be a very solid 1st line.

If Burrows-Sutter-Hansen play together, that should be one of the best shut down lines in all of hockey, and they should be able to chip in offensively on semi-regular occasions.

Any 4th line consisting of Prust and Dorsett should be among the best 4th lines in the game. Although it likely won't happen, my hope is that Cole Cassels lands that spot. Cole Cassels, Brendan Gaunce, or even Adam Cracknell.

The wildcard however, will be the Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen (or Vey) line. I see this line performing way above expectations. I think many people are underrating as to the impact Horvat will have this season (he took a noticeable leap in the playoffs this past season and I think this will continue). Baertschi looked extremely dominant down in Utica and I think he's ready to take that next step.

On defense, we still have Edler, Tanev, and Hamhuis obviously, but I do feel confident that Frankie Corrado will "grow" into that #4 spot.

Goaltending is another trouble spot as the Canucks shipped out the very capable Lack in favour of retaining an aging Miller and Markstrom, who has been awful at the NHL level. Miller may be able to bounce back after a troubling 2014-15 campaign, and Markstrom may be able to repeat his AHL performance from last season, but the likeliest scenario points to the tandem being among the league’s worst. That alone might be the Canucks undoing.

Miller's contract expires just around the time that Markstrom might be ready to make the jump. Miller's 2014-15 campaign wasn't "troubling" at all from what I saw. Was it tremendous? No. However - he was pretty good.

People talk about Lack's contract, but the truth of the matter is that Lack would have cost around 4 million in the off-season, and would have been looking at term (5-6 years?). The only way a deal like that makes sense, is if you think Lack has a shot of being one of the best goalies in the league. Lack might prove himself worthy of being a #1 goalie in Carolina, but I seriously doubt he'll prove himself as being an elite #1 goalie in this league.

Markstrom has higher upside than Lack does and is younger. Markstrom actually does have an outside shot of developing into an elite goalie. Therefore, I think it's a well calculated risk that Benning has given Markstrom the opportunity to eventually "grow" into that #1 goalie once Miller's contract expires.

 

[sting101]

Kassian was an injury prone defensively lazy player that had a questionable off-ice work ethic and conduct if all reports are true. This is NOT the type of guy you want in the lockerroom with guys like Horvat, etc., coming up through the system.

Prust and Dorsett anchoring that 4th line, will rub off extremely well on a guy like Gaunce, Cassells, or even Vey (i.e. nullify Vey's weak physicality) should they be the team's 4th line center.

Prust can easily be flipped at the deadline for a pick. Kassian on the other hand, if he faltered again this season, would have commanded little to no value.

Sedin-Sedin-Vrbata should still be a decent scoring line. They might be one year older, but they should still be a very solid 1st line.

If Burrows-Sutter-Hansen play together, that should be one of the best shut down lines in all of hockey, and they should be able to chip in offensively on semi-regular occasions.

Any 4th line consisting of Prust and Dorsett should be among the best 4th lines in the game. Although it likely won't happen, my hope is that Cole Cassels lands that spot. Cole Cassels, Brendan Gaunce, or even Adam Cracknell.

The wildcard however, will be the Baertschi-Horvat-Virtanen (or Vey) line. I see this line performing way above expectations. I think many people are underrating as to the impact Horvat will have this season (he took a noticeable leap in the playoffs this past season and I think this will continue). Baertschi looked extremely dominant down in Utica and I think he's ready to take that next step.

On defense, we still have Edler, Tanev, and Hamhuis obviously, but I do feel confident that Frankie Corrado will "grow" into that #4 spot.



Miller's contract expires just around the time that Markstrom might be ready to make the jump. Miller's 2014-15 campaign wasn't "troubling" at all from what I saw. Was it tremendous? No. However - he was pretty good.

People talk about Lack's contract, but the truth of the matter is that Lack would have cost around 4 million in the off-season, and would have been looking at term (5-6 years?). The only way a deal like that makes sense, is if you think Lack has a shot of being one of the best goalies in the league. Lack might prove himself worthy of being a #1 goalie in Carolina, but I seriously doubt he'll prove himself as being an elite #1 goalie in this league.

Markstrom has higher upside than Lack does and is younger. Markstrom actually does have an outside shot of developing into an elite goalie. Therefore, I think it's a well calculated risk that Benning has given Markstrom the opportunity to eventually "grow" into that #1 goalie once Miller's contract expires.

Benning botched the Kassian and Lack trades. Return value was garbage and they were popular.

With Lack he had a year as a number one to evaluate. If he sucked he would have still been as valuable as Miller.. If he excelled he may have an above average NHL goalie...it was stupid.

He thinks Miller can be T.Thomas 2.0? What a terrible move for a team in a retool. He's done in 3-4 years when Benning is supposed to have some sort of finished product......just Yuch!

Kassian's an idiot....whatever!!!! Still has value if you build it. At 24 this was his leap year. Considering how well he did in spurts and the size and strength he has they really could have pumped and dumped instead of dumped and dumped.

Take this from an optimist....who doesn't hate everything that's happening

 

[Toxic0n]

Oh here we go, Prust for a pick dreams again. You do realize players better than him are available on waivers and in the FA? Nobody is going to give you more than a 6th for Prust.

Also, "Prust and Dorsett anchoring that 4th line" made me laugh out loud. There will be some anchors on that line, that's for sure. They will be anchoring, but not in the way you meant.

 

[MS]

HOCKEY NEWS PREVIEW - CANUCKS... they have them finishing 6th in the PACIFIC.... THN is not fans of Benning's off-season moves...

After a 100 point season and a playoff berth, the Canucks are projected for a big crash towards the basement this season. According to their projected WAR, the Canucks don’t have many things going for them thanks to a bottom five forward group and goaltending which means that they’re a long-shot to make the playoffs.

Vancouver’s biggest undoing, though, is themselves. The team had the worst off-season on paper of anyone in the league to the cost of three true-talent wins. Nearly everything Vancouver did this off-season was a mistake that weakened the team’s depth. The Prust-Kassian swap was perhaps the most confusing as Kassian is a solid depth contributor, while Prust is completely replaceable.
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While the depth is barely there, the top group still looks formidable. The Canucks top three D-men are strong, especially the underrated Chris Tanev, and they still have the Sedin twins at their disposal (although they’re getting up there in age). They’re the only thing keeping the Canucks afloat and if they don’t drop off too much then the Canucks might be able to stay competitive. Alex Burrows is still very solid despite his point totals decreasing and Vrbata is probably underrated here, but after that there’s not much to like.

Goaltending is another trouble spot as the Canucks shipped out the very capable Lack in favour of retaining an aging Miller and Markstrom, who has been awful at the NHL level. Miller may be able to bounce back after a troubling 2014-15 campaign, and Markstrom may be able to repeat his AHL performance from last season, but the likeliest scenario points to the tandem being among the league’s worst. That alone might be the Canucks undoing.

THN is rolling out its 2015-16 Team Previews daily, in reverse alphabetical order, until the start of the season. Check out our ‘Previews’ section to see other team breakdowns.

Good to see the national media is figuring out how incompetent Benning is. Spot on commentary.

Who's saying they aren't ready? A guy like Kenins for example is certainly ready yet he's likely to be the 13th forward. Virtanen is physically ready and is likely to either be the 14th forward or sent back to junior. Corrado is ready and is likely to be the 7th defenseman.

It's also difficult to stomach seeing Benning just give away some of our other young players like Kassian, Lack, Clendening essentially for free.

I can't wait to see Kenins continually be scratched for Dorsett and Prust despite being better at every single aspect of hockey aside from punching guys in the face.

 

[sting101]

Oh here we go, Prust for a pick dreams again. You do realize players better than him are available on waivers and in the FA? Nobody is going to give you more than a 6th for Prust.

Also, "Prust and Dorsett anchoring that 4th line" made me laugh out loud. There will be some anchors on that line, that's for sure. They will be anchoring, but not in the way you meant.

Prust and Dorsett are excellent 4th liners. You're wrong.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Prust and Dorsett are excellent 4th liners. You're wrong.

On separate teams.

 

[MS]

Oh here we go, Prust for a pick dreams again. You do realize players better than him are available on waivers and in the FA? Nobody is going to give you more than a 6th for Prust.

Also, "Prust and Dorsett anchoring that 4th line" made me laugh out loud. There will be some anchors on that line, that's for sure. They will be anchoring, but not in the way you meant.

After his completely ineffective season followed by his embarrassing meltdown in the playoffs, coupled with his awful contract, Prust was a guy I would have guessed would clear waivers at the time we picked him up.

If you're handicapping his value, Dorsett was 'worth' a 3rd last summer (and many thought we overpaid). That was coming off a better season, 4 years younger, and with a much smaller contract. At best Prust is worth maybe a 5th rounder.

 

[MS]

Prust and Dorsett are excellent 4th liners. You're wrong.

Dorsett is a good energy 4th liner.

Prust was an excellent 4th liner 2-3 years ago but fell off a cliff last year.

 

[Intangibos]

Kassian was on pace for 36 ES points, which is very good 2nd line production, while playing 3rd line minutes with 3rd liners.

If you want to move him, whatever, but stop scratching a quite clearly useful player and give him some PP time. Gillis raised Hodgson's value when he saw problems, Benning tanked Kassian's.

Also, Kassian outscored the Sedins at even strength per 60. I don't care what his work ethic is if he delivers. Also, he comes to camp in better shape every year, he doesn't miss practices. Having a beer at the Roxy on night where there isn't a game the next day is not a problem.

As for defensively lazy, I'm pretty sure we had the puck more often than not when Kassian was on the ice. The Sedins will never win a Selke because they don't have a 'defensive/two way' type of game, but in reality they should be Selke players because when they're on the ice, they have the puck. If they don't have the puck, they get the puck and hold on to it. Kassian had solid possession stats and is a young power forward who put up top 6 numbers. Prust on the other hand is worth a 5th probably, maybe a 4th, alone. We paid that 5th + Kassian. If his value is actually that low, which it wasn't, why don't we just waive him and hope he clears? Nobody wants him, right?

How do we know nobody wanted Kassian? Maybe Benning really wanted Prust. We thought nobody wanted Miller, but it turned out we had offers on him and Benning just wanted to keep his guy and dump the superior Lack. Just because we didn't get more value for Kassian doesn't mean we couldn't have got more value for Kassian if we had a remotely competent GM.

 

[VanillaCoke]

If you're handicapping his value, Dorsett was 'worth' a 3rd last summer (and many thought we overpaid). That was coming off a better season, 4 years younger, and with a much smaller contract. At best Prust is worth maybe a 5th rounder.

Don't worry we gave them a fifth rounder for him.....

 

[sting101]

I can't wait to see Kenins continually be scratched for Dorsett and Prust despite being better at every single aspect of hockey aside from punching guys in the face.

Yes Kenins is twice the player. Really good bottom 6 guy.

Gonna have to do it in a larger sample size...will definitely be tougher....don't doubt he can...kids a specimen and he's got underrated vision, hands and cycling ability which may allow him to advance up the depth chart.

Was a really nice find....kudos for whoever recommended signing this guy.

 

[Intangibos]

Dorsett and Prust have bad contracts, that severely affects their quality as players.

Bo Horvat at 1.7M is fantastic, Bo Horvat at 13M is ****ing horrible. Dorsett at 1M is fine, Dorsett at 2.5m is beyond bad. He is not a superior player to Higgins, or Kassian, or Santorelli, or Hansen, or Richardson, or Matthias who all make less than him.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Benning botched the Kassian and Lack trades. Return value was garbage and they were popular.

The market dictated what Lack was worth, and according to "the market," Lack was seen as a good back up goalie and nothing else. Even in Carolina, he'll be playing the same role there that he did here.

While Kassian may have taken a leap in his game this coming season, there was also a chance that he could have regressed or continued to plod along. Hence - his value would have been lowered and we'd get nothing in return for him. And again - the last thing you want in the lockerroom, is a guy with a questionable attitude and work ethic.

With Lack he had a year as a number one to evaluate. If he sucked he would have still been as valuable as Miller.. If he excelled he may have an above average NHL goalie...it was stupid.

Benning felt that Markstrom was ready to make the jump to the NHL. With Lack here, this would not have happened. Given what we saw in the playoffs, it's still clear to me that Miller is the better option than Lack. Lack is a modern day version of Dan Cloutier from what I see. If you recall, Cloutier also had some solid regular seasons. If you keep Lack, then you're looking at signing him long term at roughly 4 million per season.

He thinks Miller can be T.Thomas 2.0? What a terrible move for a team in a retool. He's done in 3-4 years when Benning is supposed to have some sort of finished product......just Yuch!

Miller's gone in two years. Lack would have been here for 5-6. Better to have an average goalie for only two years as opposed to an average goalie for 5-6.

Kassian's an idiot....whatever!!!! Still has value if you build it. At 24 this was his leap year. Considering how well he did in spurts and the size and strength he has they really could have pumped and dumped instead of dumped and dumped.

Take this from an optimist....who doesn't hate everything that's happening

There is obviously "risk" in everything, but Linden and Benning clearly felt that Kassian wouldn't pan out. I feel the same way. I think Kassian is simply too injury prone and lazy to be the player that he thinks that he can be.

 

[Intangibos]

The market dictated what Lack was worth, and according to "the market," Lack was seen as a good back up goalie and nothing else. Even in Carolina, he'll be playing the same role there that he did here.

While Kassian may have taken a leap in his game this coming season, there was also a chance that he could have regressed or continued to plod along. Hence - his value would have been lowered and we'd get nothing in return for him. And again - the last thing you want in the lockerroom, is a guy with a questionable attitude and work ethic.



Benning felt that Markstrom was ready to make the jump to the NHL. With Lack here, this would not have happened. Given what we saw in the playoffs, it's still clear to me that Miller is the better option than Lack. Lack is a modern day version of Dan Cloutier from what I see. If you recall, Cloutier also had some solid regular seasons. If you keep Lack, then you're looking at signing him long term at roughly 4 million per season.



Miller's gone in two years. Lack would have been here for 5-6. Better to have an average goalie for only two years as opposed to an average goalie for 5-6.



There is obviously "risk" in everything, but Linden and Benning clearly felt that Kassian wouldn't pan out. I feel the same way. I think Kassian is simply too injury prone and lazy to be the player that he thinks that he can be.

Your first sentence is when everyone should stop reading. Lack, Lehner, Talbot etc all on the market, similar value, Lack gets the worst return by a mile. Like, it's not even close at all.

There was a market for goaltenders and Benning flubbed it, yet again.

What we saw in the playoffs? I saw Ryan "No Lead Is Safe" Miller get blown out after Lack played very well for us. Did you watch the same games?

 

[VanillaCoke]

Your first sentence is when everyone should stop reading. Lack, Lehner, Talbot etc all on the market, similar value, Lack gets the worst return by a mile. Like, it's not even close at all.

There was a market for goaltenders and Benning flubbed it, yet again.

Don't forget jones

 

[arsmaster*]

The market dictated what Lack was worth, and according to "the market," Lack was seen as a good back up goalie and nothing else. Even in Carolina, he'll be playing the same role there that he did here.

Kinda like Cory Schneider when he was dealt to New Jersey.....he won the job from the vet, just like Lack did here.

 

[Intangibos]

Don't forget jones

I couldn't remember the 4th goalie on the market, thank you. Lack was probably second best of the group, but got the worst return. I wouldn't even mind if it was close, but it was really really bad. I don't understand...

 

[VanillaCoke]

I couldn't remember the 4th goalie on the market, thank you. Lack was probably second best of the group, but got the worst return. I wouldn't even mind if it was close, but it was really really bad. I don't understand...

Jones is the least proven and got the best return too.
Läck and talbot were damn close in value.
But Benning is a ****ing idiot.

 

[arsmaster*]

Don't worry we gave them a fifth rounder for him.....

Yeah, it will be amazing when we trade a 5th plus Kassian for a 5th.

 

[MS]

Your first sentence is when everyone should stop reading. Lack, Lehner, Talbot etc all on the market, similar value, Lack gets the worst return by a mile. Like, it's not even close at all.

There was a market for goaltenders and Benning flubbed it, yet again.

What we saw in the playoffs? I saw Ryan "No Lead Is Safe" Miller get blown out after Lack played very well for us. Did you watch the same games?

Yeah, I honestly wonder if some people actually watched the playoffs. Lack was very good through the first 3 games (his stats don't look good for Game 3, but he was easily the best player on the ice for us in a game where we were absolutely horrible and kept it from being a blowout) and then had 1 bad period to start Game 4 and was benched. After .930ing us into the playoffs with absolutely elite goaltending down the stretch. It was a total joke - Willie was just looking for the first opportunity to throw Miller back in there.

As for the 'the market dictated it!' stuff, yeah, it's pretty funny.

1) If there isn't a market for your best young players, for whatever reason, YOU DON'T TRADE THEM. Period. End of story. And we should never have been looking to trade either of these players in the first place.

2) The notion that 'the market wasn't there' comes from Jim Benning, a guy who has shown himself completely unable to judge the market or judge value in every single transaction he's made. His opinion on the market should not carry much weight.

As you say, the comparable returns of Lack vs. the other goalies moved this summer are laughably disparate.

 

[Intangibos]

Yeah, it will be amazing when we trade a 5th plus Kassian for a 5th.

Youth movement! We removed 23 years from our roster right there!

 

[arsmaster*]

Benning felt that Markstrom was ready to make the jump to the NHL. With Lack here, this would not have happened.

Can you explain this?

If Markstrom is ready to make the jump, why does the other goalie matter? He's either ready or he isn't, regardless of the other goalie being Miller or Lack.

I think that's a really stupid point of view. It makes no sense and has no logic backing it.

If Markstrom is legit he wins the starting job, if he's not better than Lack, he's the backup, since we already know Lack can handle a starters workload.

 

[MS]

Can you explain this?

If Markstrom is ready to make the jump, why does the other goalie matter? He's either ready or he isn't, regardless of the other goalie being Miller or Lack.

I think that's a really stupid point of view. It makes no sense and has no logic backing it.

If Markstrom is legit he wins the starting job, if he's not better than Lack, he's the backup, since we already know Lack can handle a starters workload.

Yup.

I have yet to hear anyone explain why we couldn't have a 27 y/o goalie alongside a 25 y/o goalie in our tandem or how it would somehow be bad for us. Or why Markstrom would somehow play worse in 25 games with Eddie Lack wearing a baseball cap on the bench than in 25 games with Ryan Miller wearing a baseball cap on the bench.