Salary Cap: The Impending Cap Ceiling Issue

[Light the Lamp]

The cap hit on Clarkson is irrelevant. Paying someone $20M, to NOT play, is very relevant. This is not monopoly money, its a business. I don't see ownership burning that kind of cash (maybe at the end of next season).

 

[CBJx614]

You have to just accept it by now. The moment we heard Horton was uninsured you should have accepted it. And at least with Clarkson there's a chance he at least puts up a point. The more you dwell on the fact were wasting $20M on jack **** the more pissed off you're going to be

 

[JacketsDavid]

You have to just accept it by now. The moment we heard Horton was uninsured you should have accepted it. And at least with Clarkson there's a chance he at least puts up a point. The more you dwell on the fact were wasting $20M on jack **** the more pissed off you're going to be

My point always was I'd rather just waste the roster spot than have a 4th liner making $5.4M. You can play a young prospect there for $700k-1M and actually have some upside instead of having an underachieving veteran. Plus if the team is in the playoff race you could use the LTIR to pick up a player at the deadline.

I strongly still feel the reason why the CBJ did do it was because they wanted to get rid of Horton. Even a casual fan would recognize that his contract was a cluster-*** and would be a constant reminder of their mistake. At least by getting Clarkson it makes the contract go to the back burner , and the CBJ can just blame Clarkson for not being the same player he was that one year.

 

[DarkandStormy]

My point always was I'd rather just waste the roster spot than have a 4th liner making $5.4M. You can play a young prospect there for $700k-1M and actually have some upside instead of having an underachieving veteran. Plus if the team is in the playoff race you could use the LTIR to pick up a player at the deadline.

I strongly still feel the reason why the CBJ did do it was because they wanted to get rid of Horton. Even a casual fan would recognize that his contract was a cluster-*** and would be a constant reminder of their mistake. At least by getting Clarkson it makes the contract go to the back burner , and the CBJ can just blame Clarkson for not being the same player he was that one year.

Ownership did not want to pay ~$30 million to a guy who has essentially retired. They'll spend to the cap, but that's $5+ million extra beyond the cap, because it wasn't insured. Therefore, the potential LTIR benefits would be moot from their standpoint.

They're losing money. It's easy as fans to say "oh just swallow the contract," but it's not our money and the team can't even break even right now.

 

[blahblah]

as well as add 2 D men who may or may not be Connauton & Prout.

We might add a D, but I don't see us adding two this offseason. One is hard enough.

On a side note, Prout/Connauton might be gone with Bodnarchuk and/or Falk staying on one way deals. That 3rd pairing is actually playing fairly well.

For the most part I find most of the re-signs to be fairly modest this time around unless Jenner ends up with 35 or 40 goals.

If we continue to flounder a bit, I'm really not too sure what we'll see. None of our vets are what I'd call easy contracts to move. Especially to get back something young with value. We don't seem to be a most an asset for picks kind of team. That doesn't mean move a Prout for a 7th round pick either. I'm not sure we'd move Hartnell for a late round 1st as I think I saw.

Tyutin and Hartnell have NMC, the former modified. I think it's time to move Tyutin, but the destinations could be rater limited.

 

[blahblah]

Ownership did not want to pay ~$30 million to a guy who has essentially retired. They'll spend to the cap, but that's $5+ million extra beyond the cap, because it wasn't insured. Therefore, the potential LTIR benefits would be moot from their standpoint.

That doesn't mean you make the same financial commitment to Clarkson. That was a rather risky move and thus far hasn't paid off and doesn't look like it will. Horton's contract was always going to be easier to move (to a floor team) than Clarkson will be. I might have waited a couple of years until a better move came along. Arizona just ate one and the closer you get to the end of the deal the easier it would be to move.

I know why they did it, doesn't mean they executed well. That will be, forever, the largest contract gaff in CBJ history and we've had a few.

On a side note you don't need a lot of cap space to make a move at the deadline (as the other person posted). You don't need anywhere need 5 million in cap space to get the most expensive player in the league, well in the last year of his deal anyway.

 

[DarkandStormy]

We might add a D, but I don't see us adding two this offseason. One is hard enough.

He's saying looking at the roster as it stands, we only have Goloubef, Johnson, Tyutin, and Savard under contract for next year. Ryan Murray (presumably) makes 5. You need at least 7, and it could be a combination of Prout/Connauton/Falk/Bondarchuk/Paliotta and/or a free agent or two. Will also be interesting to see if Heatherington or Werenski are ready. But what he's saying is from a numbers perspective, barring a trade for an NHL defenseman, we will need to sign at least a couple guys. Just depends on if they come from within the org. or not.

 

[blahblah]

He's saying looking at the roster as it stands, we only have Goloubef, Johnson, Tyutin, and Savard under contract for next year. Ryan Murray (presumably) makes 5. You need at least 7, and it could be a combination of Prout/Connauton/Falk/Bondarchuk/Paliotta and/or a free agent or two. Will also be interesting to see if Heatherington or Werenski are ready. But what he's saying is from a numbers perspective, barring a trade for an NHL defenseman, we will need to sign at least a couple guys. Just depends on if they come from within the org. or not.

Nope, he only listed our 2 RFA's not our UFA's. They could have far more value to this franchise than the RFA's going into the off season.

 

[DarkandStormy]

Nope, he only listed our 2 RFA's not our UFA's. They could have far more value to this franchise than the RFA's going into the off season.

Uh, not really sure what the point of this post is, but the fact is the team only has 4 defensemen under contract for 2016-2017, assuming the likes of Heatherington aren't quite ready. Murray should be re-signed, so the team will still have two open blue line spots. Again, if they choose to fill internally or via FA remains to be seen. But from a numbers-perspective, they will need to sign two more defensemen with minimal cap space to do so, barring a trade. Not really sure if you're disagreeing with that premise or what.

 

[blahblah]

Uh, not really sure what the point of this post is, but the fact is the team only has 4 defensemen under contract for 2016-2017, assuming the likes of Heatherington aren't quite ready.

I only meant that he didn't mention those players, so your critique wasn't valid.

Cheers.

Two side notes. First, I think we'll look outside the org hard to add a D. Secondly, he need to clean up his wording. You don't "add" by "filling" a spot with someone already in the org.

 

[DarkandStormy]

I only meant that he didn't mention those players, so your critique wasn't valid.

Cheers.

Two side notes. First, I think we'll look outside the org hard to add a D. Secondly, he need to clean up his wording. You don't "add" by "filling" a spot with someone already in the org.

Ah.

I guess "technically" they aren't under contract for next season, even though they'll be RFAs. Does not necessarily mean they have to re-sign or even tender a qualifying offer. I think from a cap perspective, you have to factor in two more D contracts at ~$1 million each when looking at next year, perhaps more if they go the FA route.

 

[dkollidas]

Sabres fan here. Just curious how you guys feel about your teams cap situation this coming off-season. Seems like you have a lot of highly paid players who have contracts that are difficult to move, as well as some young players needing new contracts (Jenner, Jones & Murray), and some increases (Savard).

So my questions are
1. Are there any moves you guys see the team making to lower the overall cap (Tyutin trade?), and how realistic are those.

2. Do you see a chance that one of those young RFA's could get offer sheeted and the Jackets not matching the offer sheet?

 

[Xoggz22]

Who gives a damn what Jarmo and JD want to give to the kids. There's 29 other teams and offer sheets possibility. Trade for RNH, Crosby or Jesus Christ when the "big-3" are signed. Till then the Jackets need every penny of the cap space. Don't put the cart in front of the horse!

I assume this is the same 29 teams that provided an offer sheet to Johansen right? I mean he would have been considered MUCH higher value than any of our RFA's going into this off season. Offer sheets rarely happen. Bridge contracts are coming. If they wanted RNH they would find a way to fit him in without destroying the structure. The problem is I don't see any way EDM moves RNH for any deal involving Hartnell.

As to the RFA contracts... I have no concerns with these and think you are putting too much weight into offer sheets.

 

[major major]

2. Do you see a chance that one of those young RFA's could get offer sheeted and the Jackets not matching the offer sheet?

No.

The Jackets are not competing right now so the RFA age players are everything to them. If they get an offer sheet that puts them into cap hell, they'll match it and dump a veteran player. The only big veteran contracts that aren't moveable are Clarkson and maybe Tyutin.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I assume this is the same 29 teams that provided an offer sheet to Johansen right? I mean he would have been considered MUCH higher value than any of our RFA's going into this off season. Offer sheets rarely happen. Bridge contracts are coming. If they wanted RNH they would find a way to fit him in without destroying the structure. The problem is I don't see any way EDM moves RNH for any deal involving Hartnell.

As to the RFA contracts... I have no concerns with these and think you are putting too much weight into offer sheets.

Those 29 teams didn't provide an offer sheet to Johansen because the Jackets had plenty of cap space and would have matched any offer, that was pointless for the 29 teams. That's also why I want the Jackets to have as many cap space as possible this summer.
I love when people say "they would fit RNH", but cant' explain HOW. Fantasy world.
And I guess the very fresh examples of Hamilton and Saad, who were traded because of offer sheets possibility, doesn't say anything.

 

[EspenK]

Those 29 teams didn't provide an offer sheet to Johansen because the Jackets had plenty of cap space and would have matched any offer, that was pointless for the 29 teams. That's also why I want the Jackets to have as many cap space as possible this summer.
I love when people say "they would fit RNH", but cant' explain HOW. Fantasy world.
And I guess the very fresh examples of Hamilton and Saad, who were traded because of offer sheets possibility, doesn't say anything.

I am not as apt to dismiss the possibility of a negative outcome involving the Jackets as some here so I think the possibility that one or more of the RFA's could receive an offer sheet is a possibility.

The good news imo is most of the good teams don't have much cap space either and I can't see any of these guys bolting to play for a crappy team. I'm guessing they all see the potential for the Jackets down the road and also for them to make some more $ in 2 more years.

 

[CBJx614]

Those 29 teams didn't provide an offer sheet to Johansen because the Jackets had plenty of cap space and would have matched any offer, that was pointless for the 29 teams. That's also why I want the Jackets to have as many cap space as possible this summer.
I love when people say "they would fit RNH", but cant' explain HOW. Fantasy world.
And I guess the very fresh examples of Hamilton and Saad, who were traded because of offer sheets possibility, doesn't say anything.

I don't think you understand that the front office won't let those players get offer sheeted. They will be signed before anyone has a chance to do anything. The Hawks traded Saad because they have 2 $10M players taking over 25% of their cap space.

They are going to take bridge deals because they know they can make A LOT more money in 2-3 years. Leaving wiggle room for management to get **** done. That's why the look for character guys. Guys who accept they need to prove themselves for getting paid, and guys who aren't getting the big bucks and understand that if they take less now, better talent can be brought in to support them.

 

[KlichkoBro*]

I don't think you understand that the front office won't let those players get offer sheeted. They will be signed before anyone has a chance to do anything. The Hawks traded Saad because they have 2 $10M players taking over 25% of their cap space.

They are going to take bridge deals because they know they can make A LOT more money in 2-3 years. Leaving wiggle room for management to get **** done. That's why the look for character guys. Guys who accept they need to prove themselves for getting paid, and guys who aren't getting the big bucks and understand that if they take less now, better talent can be brought in to support them.

I think you don't understand that they're not signed yet. If they were willing to take the bridge deals they would have had the new contracts by today.

 

[CBJx614]

I think you don't understand that they're not signed yet. If they were willing to take the bridge deals they would have had the new contracts by today.

No, no they wouldn't. Murray needs as many GP as possible before his new contract or he literally won't have any leverage at all because of his injuries.

Same for Jones except hes been stuck on 3rd pair, so he's trying to prove he can compete "consistently" at a high level.

Like I said Jenner is the only likely one to take a long term deal. But even he's having a career year and taking a long term contract could be a financial mistake for him (maybe mistake isn't the right word, but he could miss out on a big pay day)

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

Our upcoming RFA situation is pretty interesting. It would not surprise me if the front office doubles down onS Seth Jones and try to lock him up long term (6-8 years) at an affordable cap hit for a future #1D. Maybe 6-8 years @ 6.5 mill per (similar to what Trouba is looking for)? He'd be the highest paid DMan on the roster. Although he may try to pull a Subban to cash in BIG time on his next contract.

Murray most certainly will take a 1-2 year bridge deal, because he too will likely make more on his next contract if he continues his progression. He has no leverage at the moment because of his injury history, so it would make most sense from both sides to have a "show me" deal to prove he can stay healthy. I'd say 2 years @ 2.25 mill is what we're looking at for him.

Jenner really could go either way. It may be a better move to lock him up long-term so that his cap hit could be more favorable in the big picture. He is obviously a massive part of the core of this team, and the front office (JD) loves him. He's going to be a consistent 45-55 point scorer as long as he stays healthy, and he is a leader. If we go long term on him, it will probably be in roughly 5.5 mill a year or so. Short term, I would say something similar to what Derek Stepan got on his second contract (~2.8-3.0 mill/yr for 2 years). But again, like Jones, if he takes a bridge deal it could cost a lot more $$$ in the long run. May be wise to lock him up.

Karlsson will definitely be taking a bridge deal. No reason for either party to not do so. 2-3 years @ 1 mill/yr.

So say that we sign Jones 8yr/52mill (6.5 AAV), Jenner 6yr/33mill (5.5 AAV), Murray 2yr/5mill (2.5 AAV), and Karlsson 3yr/3mill (1.0 AAV).....Going into the offseason, according to capfriendly, we have a projected 10.5 million in cap space. That would force the front office to make some moves to shed salary to lock up these core players. Bourque's 3.33 million would come off the books, but we would still need to get rid of more. Tyutin and Hartnell are obvious trade candidates. If it were possible to move both without retaining any salary, that clears 9.25 million off the cap and alleviates any issue with signing these players to these deals (but we all know that is not 100% realistic.)

 

[CBJx614]

Another point about having at least 2/3 of Jones, Murray and Jenner take bridge deals is that it gives the FO another 2-3 seasons of time to create cap space and get rid of bad contracts.

 

[EspenK]

We have a salary cap thread lets move all trade and draft talk there.

Just sayin'

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1990021

 

[EDM]

We have two snipers ---- Saad and Atkinson. Now that Cam is playing with guys who look to set him up (Dubie and Jenner), I can see his goal production going up. In fact Cam is a perfect compliment to Dubie and Jenner, two guys who can bag away inside. I hope, hope, hope they keep those three guys together and let them get into a long term groove together.

The second line has Wennberg and Saad with Hartnell being the inside banger. Question is who do you slot in there when Hartnell is traded? Nick or Rychel.

The odd man out goes to a third line with Calvert and Wild Bill.

We really could use one more high skill guy in this year's draft.

 

[major major]

Our upcoming RFA situation is pretty interesting. It would not surprise me if the front office doubles down onS Seth Jones and try to lock him up long term (6-8 years) at an affordable cap hit for a future #1D. Maybe 6-8 years @ 6.5 mill per (similar to what Trouba is looking for)? He'd be the highest paid DMan on the roster. Although he may try to pull a Subban to cash in BIG time on his next contract.

Murray most certainly will take a 1-2 year bridge deal, because he too will likely make more on his next contract if he continues his progression. He has no leverage at the moment because of his injury history, so it would make most sense from both sides to have a "show me" deal to prove he can stay healthy. I'd say 2 years @ 2.25 mill is what we're looking at for him.

Jenner really could go either way. It may be a better move to lock him up long-term so that his cap hit could be more favorable in the big picture. He is obviously a massive part of the core of this team, and the front office (JD) loves him. He's going to be a consistent 45-55 point scorer as long as he stays healthy, and he is a leader. If we go long term on him, it will probably be in roughly 5.5 mill a year or so. Short term, I would say something similar to what Derek Stepan got on his second contract (~2.8-3.0 mill/yr for 2 years). But again, like Jones, if he takes a bridge deal it could cost a lot more $$$ in the long run. May be wise to lock him up.

Karlsson will definitely be taking a bridge deal. No reason for either party to not do so. 2-3 years @ 1 mill/yr.

So say that we sign Jones 8yr/52mill (6.5 AAV), Jenner 6yr/33mill (5.5 AAV), Murray 2yr/5mill (2.5 AAV), and Karlsson 3yr/3mill (1.0 AAV).....Going into the offseason, according to capfriendly, we have a projected 10.5 million in cap space. That would force the front office to make some moves to shed salary to lock up these core players. Bourque's 3.33 million would come off the books, but we would still need to get rid of more. Tyutin and Hartnell are obvious trade candidates. If it were possible to move both without retaining any salary, that clears 9.25 million off the cap and alleviates any issue with signing these players to these deals (but we all know that is not 100% realistic.)

Way too much IMO. If we go for a 2 year bridge with Boone, his next contract after that is not going to be much bigger than $5.5m, and probably less than that. So you're not saving anything. A 45-55 pt guy isn't going to be that pricey, at least not until it covers UFA years.

I would offer Boone the option of 2 years x $3.25m or 7 x $4.25m.

I think the parameters for an 8 year Jones deal you discussed makes sense. A long term deal would probably be smart, to take away the risk we'll end up with a Subban-sized contract in a couple years.

 

[Xoggz22]

*BUMP*

For Espen

Discuss all RFA offer sheets here! Or not....