GDT: The Hurricanes Pay a Visit to the Devils Stomping Grounds

[LostInaLostWorld]

Given the goalie situation we are currently confronting, who thinks this is/was the year to go all in?

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Given the goalie situation we are currently confronting, who thinks this is/was the year to go all in?

IMO, next year was always the time to go all in, because that's when the contracts of all our star players were up. So we go all in and say "OK, is this a group we can win with, or who can we lose?"

It's just been beneficial that other teams have chosen to go all-in (or at least, severely hamper their trading pool) these other years.

 

[Sens1Canes2]

Normally I would, but since you're being kind of a jerk about it, look them up yourself.

Hahahahahahahahahaha

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Yes, it matters, because if we're not idiots we'll have a very good chance at a cup next year too. And the year after that. And the year after that. And the year after that.

Betting it all on one season is a losing bet. Even if you go all in your real odds of winning the cup max out at around 20%. If you want to win a cup, you have to position yourself to be in contention for a long time. Contending is a long term endeavor, it's not instant gratification.

Nobody said to bet it all on one season. Who do we think were acquiring here, Connor McDavid?

And unfortunately we know from history that contention windows arent the same level of competitive through its entirety. Usually its dictated by cap space and the amount of bridge/ELC deals you have and how much production comes from them

With Carolina needing some hefty deals to be given out in 1.5 years time, the assumed strongest part of their window would be right now and next season

You could have moved the equivalent of two 1sts both this deadline and next and youd still have a solid prospect pool with talents graduating, more picks coming as the next draft nears, and the talent in the roster would still be prime-aged

Im afraid Carolina may be coveting its futures too much while their best chance at a Cup is now while the old top-dogs fall off and the new monsters are just rising. Boston was the only team in the league this year notably better; next year that could change (or maybe already has)

And to assume the GM is not doing that is silly. Off the list I’d say Horvat would have been a good option but it goes against the rental mindset of the Borg (for better or worse). We don’t know that Tarasenko would have come here. O’Reilly wasn’t what they were looking for and may not have come here.

Beauvillier went for Horvat, doesn’t mean he was available otherwise. And the other names frankly have not been any better this year then the guys we have in the top 6. If the Canes are going to overpay for someone it needs to be for certainty not hope that they can be what they were in the past.

I wasnt implying your GM hasnt searched. Im implying I think he covets guys like Morrow/Nikishin and his 1st rounders too much

The offseason will be Carolina's best chance to make a splash - and before the draft too with this years supposed depth

It was widely considered surprising that Carolina stood pat with only having moved two third's.

 

[bleedgreen]

But that injured player is no longer counted against the cap (LTIR). So really once that happens its as if a scorer wasnt acquired because he isnt on the roster anymore. Not to mention this specific case is likely a retirement pretty soon

And in a team like Carolina's position youd like to see some sense of urgency. Someone is always available on the market if you're willing to pay what it takes. However its clear management thought they were okay enough to stand pat and make two smaller acquisitions.

Id be pretty upset if my ownership group implied that their one attempt at a goal scorer is now permanently injured and they just go 'ahh well'. Id think odds are they were gun-shy on paying more during the deadline and likely go big name shopping in the offseason (though at what cost after yet another playoff run)

We’re not upset at the ownership group, and you never mentioned the player you think would help. Enlighten us.

Just the standard…..”they should’ve just done something, right?!?”.

 

[Tryamw]

We’re not upset at the ownership group, and you never mentioned the player you think would help. Enlighten us.

Just the standard…..”they should’ve just done something, right?!?”.

Well they should have.. I don't know what but I want them to do something... ghost. Not that something. Poolparty not that either

 

[NHL Fanatik]

We’re not upset at the ownership group, and you never mentioned the player you think would help. Enlighten us.

Im not trying to enlighten anyone, Im just giving my take on the teams direction after the trade deadline

But if we really want to try and guess at specifics.. I think Carolina could have outbid or at the very least upbid the Devils since Holtz was their best prospect but is similar to a lot of their winger talent (SJ's), and neither team was including Mercer or Jarvis. One or two 1sts and Nikishin would have been pretty unbeatable by NJ. Just maybe theyd have gone two 1sts as well

Horvat also would have been a nice grab though his contract wouldnt have been up Carolina's alley idt (also Im just not a fan of it). And there is no doubt if you replaced Beauvilier's value in extra futures you could have won him. But there Id agree the worth isnt up to par

Bertuzzi also would have been a really solid add for the way Carolina plays.

 

[LakeLivin]

Nobody said to bet it all on one season. Who do we think were acquiring here, Connor McDavid?

And unfortunately we know from history that contention windows arent the same level of competitive through its entirety. Usually its dictated by cap space and the amount of bridge/ELC deals you have and how much production comes from them

With Carolina needing some hefty deals to be given out in 1.5 years time, the assumed strongest part of their window would be right now and next season

You could have moved the equivalent of two 1sts both this deadline and next and youd still have a solid prospect pool with talents graduating, more picks coming as the next draft nears, and the talent in the roster would still be prime-aged

Im afraid Carolina may be coveting its futures too much while their best chance at a Cup is now while the old top-dogs fall off and the new monsters are just rising. Boston was the only team in the league this year notably better; next year that could change (or maybe already has)


I wasnt implying your GM hasnt searched. Im implying I think he covets guys like Morrow/Nikishin and his 1st rounders too much

The offseason will be Carolina's best chance to make a splash - and before the draft too with this years supposed depth

It was widely considered surprising that Carolina stood pat with only having moved two third's.

Frank Seravalli reported that the Canes made a massive offer for Meier, one that he feels was better than what SJ accepted from NJ.

SJ Director of Player Personnel Scott Fitzgerald is NJ GM Tom Fitzgerald's brother. In addition, SJ GM Mike Grier worked under Tom in Jersey. There were multiple reports that SJ was giving NJ the right of last refusal on Meier and that the Canes only chance at Meier was a huge overpay, one the NJ wouldn't come close to matching. We have a member who knows someone inside the Canes org who essentially passed on that Waddell felt the Sharks were stringing the Canes along, which really pissed him off.

But you've clearly stated that you don't think the Canes were willing to move significant prospects / draft picks, and I've got a feeling that no matter what we share here, that narrative is a hill you're willing to die on, lol.

 

[Chrispy]

Nobody said to bet it all on one season. Who do we think were acquiring here, Connor McDavid?

By definition, trading significant assets for a rental you don’t intend to sign long term is betting it all on this year. That’s what Florida did last year and it blew up in their face.

By all reports they had a 6 piece offer for Meier that included their first and likely included Morrow. They refused to move Jarvis, who they need as part of this playoff run and for the future, and Nikishin.

Kane pushed to NY. O’Reilly appears to have preferred Toronto. Tarasenko preferred NY. Carolina wasn’t going to sign Horvat long term like the Isles did.

After Meier, I’m not seeing the big upgrade that was supposed to be brought in. They made their best offer for Meier and it was rejected.

 

[bleedgreen]

Im not trying to enlighten anyone, Im just giving my take on the teams direction after the trade deadline

But if we really want to try and guess at specifics.. I think Carolina could have outbid or at the very least upbid the Devils since Holtz was their best prospect but is similar to a lot of their winger talent (SJ's), and neither team was including Mercer or Jarvis. One or two 1sts and Nikishin would have been pretty unbeatable by NJ. Just maybe theyd have gone two 1sts as well

Horvat also would have been a nice grab though his contract wouldnt have been up Carolina's alley idt (also Im just not a fan of it). And there is no doubt if you replaced Beauvilier's value in extra futures you could have won him. But there Id agree the worth isnt up to par

Bertuzzi also would have been a really solid add for the way Carolina plays.

We offered six assets for Meier. There’s rumors we wouldn’t add Nikishin but that’s it. We offered a first, second, and a top prospect presumed to be Morrow plus extras. So they did what should do there.

Horvat would be great but we would’ve been highly unlikely to sign his next contract. We don’t sign ufa’s. If you want to criticize management then there’s your angle. Not because they stopped aiming high past Meier because there was no one left to go after. They were right about that.

They don’t like expensive rentals and I also agree with that. They change the chemistry of the team, as Bertuzzi would’ve. He’s also been pretty underwhelming this year trying to recover from injuries.

I think they targeted the wrong player this summer, and that’s the only issue I find with them. Patches has become injury prone, but we went for him because he was cheap. We rolled the dice and lost. Wasn’t my favorite move but this team is in contention under this management and I don’t think they did anything wrong this deadline.

I didn’t really want Meier though, so I’m fine they didn’t go through with that.

 

[The Faulker 27]

You know who would have scored a goal last night?? It sounds like Aerosol.

 

[AD Skinner]

just to continue being nit picky about it-Meier did not register a point last night and is still sitting at one point since the trade

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Frank Seravalli reported that the Canes made a massive offer for Meier, one that he feels was better than what SJ accepted from NJ.

SJ Director of Player Personnel Scott Fitzgerald is NJ GM Tom Fitzgerald's brother. In addition, SJ GM Mike Grier worked under Tom in Jersey. There were multiple reports that SJ was giving NJ the right of last refusal on Meier and that the Canes only chance at Meier was a huge overpay, one the NJ wouldn't come close to matching. We have a member who knows someone inside the Canes org who essentially passed on that Waddell felt the Sharks were stringing the Canes along, which really pissed him off.

But you've clearly stated that you don't think the Canes were willing to move significant prospects / draft picks, and I've got a feeling that no matter what we share here you're going to die on that hill, lol.

Im not dying on any hill.. its just a conversation. Ive not once been rude to anyone nor outright claimed someone was wrong on anything.

Meier's price being beaten by nepotism is a pretty hard sell considering the implications thatd place on Grier and the Sharks ownership group. Not that I dont believe there was some idea to get Meier where hed like to be (which likely was with three other Swiss players in NJ), but to imply that the price was marginally better and still rejected would mean an instant firing of Grief if true.

Not to mention the Hurricanes already have a history of being real quiet in trades, especially with higher picks and prospects during three years of being the top Metro team. In fact, theyve received more picks then they've sent out in that timeframe.

Since summer of 2019 (notable trades, I left out picks for picks and AHL moves)

- Haula for a 5th
- Reimer for Darling and a 6th
- Trochek for Haula/Wallmark/parts
- Vatanen for a 3rd
- 1st for Skjei (they had a second 1st from Fox)
- Dzingel for Paquette and Galchenyuk
- Domi for Hreschuk and Korshkov
- Burns for a 3rd/Makiniemi
- Puljujarvi for Puistila
- Gostisbehere for 3rd

So in three years theyve moved one 1st for a player and one 1st for two 2nd's (Nashville, first 2nd became Morrow). Also no 2nds were traded for a player, only for more 3rd rounders

My basing the 'I think Carolina covets futures too much' isnt based strictly on this deadline. Nor should it be passed off as 'well who was out there'... In three years time there have been plenty of names worthy of picks and prospects Carolina has instead chose to keep. And if they couldnt find any maybe they arent digging deep enough.. or offering enough

Based on the recent history I find it hard to believe Carolina's offer for Meier could have been any much better, at least not enough to ignore playing nice to players as a new GM. And it also leads me to believe that management thinks the team is in a great spot and perhaps doesnt need the acquisitions; but therein lies the point of me saying all this, I think this year and next is their year to win it (no I dont think the window closes after that, just the cap gets tighter)

We offered six assets for Meier. There’s rumors we wouldn’t add Nikishin but that’s it. We offered a first, second, and a top prospect presumed to be Morrow plus extras. So they did what should do there.

Horvat would be great but we would’ve been highly unlikely to sign his next contract. We don’t sign ufa’s. If you want to criticize management then there’s your angle. Not because they stopped aiming high past Meier because there was no one left to go after. They were right about that.

They don’t like expensive rentals and I also agree with that. They change the chemistry of the team, as Bertuzzi would’ve. He’s also been pretty underwhelming this year trying to recover from injuries.

I think they targeted the wrong player this summer, and that’s the only issue I find with them. Patches has become injury prone, but we went for him because he was cheap. We rolled the dice and lost. Wasn’t my favorite move but this team is in contention under this management and I don’t think they did anything wrong this deadline.

I didn’t really want Meier though, so I’m fine they didn’t go through with that.

For the record I also dont like expensive rentals. Though I think a Bertuzzi or Barbashev would have looked nice on the team and at an acceptable cost given the pile of assets Carolina does in fact have

 

[moses malone 12]

Frank Seravalli reported that the Canes made a massive offer for Meier, one that he feels was better than what SJ accepted from NJ.

SJ Director of Player Personnel Scott Fitzgerald is NJ GM Tom Fitzgerald's brother. In addition, SJ GM Mike Grier worked under Tom in Jersey. There were multiple reports that SJ was giving NJ the right of last refusal on Meier and that the Canes only chance at Meier was a huge overpay, one the NJ wouldn't come close to matching. We have a member who knows someone inside the Canes org who essentially passed on that Waddell felt the Sharks were stringing the Canes along, which really pissed him off.

But you've clearly stated that you don't think the Canes were willing to move significant prospects / draft picks, and I've got a feeling that no matter what we share here, that narrative is a hill you're willing to die on, lol.

I didn't get that exact takeaway from reading Seravalli's twitter posts. Carolina's offer was competitive but I seriously doubt it was a huge overpay relative to NJ's. Carolina's offer has not been disclosed so we don't know what conditions were attached to it. Until Donnie turtlenecks bags a marquee player by outbidding teams , I will consider this team to be a bridesmaid on all trade speculation involving star player(s).

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Since summer of 2019 (notable trades, I left out picks for picks and AHL moves)

- Haula for a 5th
- Reimer for Darling and a 6th
- Trochek for Haula/Wallmark/parts
- Vatanen for a 3rd
- 1st for Skjei (they had a second 1st from Fox)
- Dzingel for Paquette and Galchenyuk
- Domi for Hreschuk and Korshkov
- Burns for a 3rd/Makiniemi
- Puljujarvi for Puistila
- Gostisbehere for 3rd

So in three years theyve moved one 1st for a player and one 1st for two 2nd's (Nashville, first 2nd became Morrow). Also no 2nds were traded for a player, only for more 3rd rounders

They also traded a 1st+ for Kotkaniemi via the offer-sheet.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Im not dying on any hill.. its just a conversation. Ive not once been rude to anyone nor outright claimed someone was wrong on anything.

Looks like your account is rather new, so a tip. When you go to another team's board and start telling the fans of that team how the team should be operating and keep repeating it again and again, it rarely goes over well.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

They also traded a 1st+ for Kotkaniemi via the offer-sheet.

You know I had a feeling I was missing something and that was definitely it. Thank you

A 1st and a 3rd.

Crazy how I forgot that considering the big ordeal it became in the news

 

[MinJaBen]

Im not dying on any hill.. its just a conversation. Ive not once been rude to anyone nor outright claimed someone was wrong on anything.

Meier's price being beaten by nepotism is a pretty hard sell considering the implications thatd place on Grier and the Sharks ownership group. Not that I dont believe there was some idea to get Meier where hed like to be (which likely was with three other Swiss players in NJ), but to imply that the price was marginally better and still rejected would mean an instant firing of Grief if true.

Not to mention the Hurricanes already have a history of being real quiet in trades, especially with higher picks and prospects during three years of being the top Metro team. In fact, theyve received more picks then they've sent out in that timeframe.

Since summer of 2019 (notable trades, I left out picks for picks and AHL moves)

- Haula for a 5th
- Reimer for Darling and a 6th
- Trochek for Haula/Wallmark/parts
- Vatanen for a 3rd
- 1st for Skjei (they had a second 1st from Fox)
- Dzingel for Paquette and Galchenyuk
- Domi for Hreschuk and Korshkov
- Burns for a 3rd/Makiniemi
- Puljujarvi for Puistila
- Gostisbehere for 3rd

So in three years theyve moved one 1st for a player and one 1st for two 2nd's (Nashville, first 2nd became Morrow). Also no 2nds were traded for a player, only for more 3rd rounders

My basing the 'I think Carolina covets futures too much' isnt based strictly on this deadline. Nor should it be passed off as 'well who was out there'... In three years time there have been plenty of names worthy of picks and prospects Carolina has instead chose to keep. And if they couldnt find any maybe they arent digging deep enough.. or offering enough

Based on the recent history I find it hard to believe Carolina's offer for Meier could have been any much better, at least not enough to ignore playing nice to players as a new GM. And it also leads me to believe that management thinks the team is in a great spot and perhaps doesnt need the acquisitions; but therein lies the point of me saying all this, I think this year and next is their year to win it (no I dont think the window closes after that, just the cap gets tighter)


For the record I also dont like expensive rentals. Though I think a Bertuzzi or Barbashev would have looked nice on the team and at an acceptable cost given the pile of assets Carolina does in fact have

The extra first we had when trading for Skjei was from the Marleau trade, not Fox. We only got 2 2nds for Fox.

 

[Negan4Coach]

Yep 3 goals on 13 shots, checks out.

Glad I didn't watch this one live.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Looks like your account is rather new, so a tip. When you go to another team's board and start telling the fans of that team how the team should be operating and keep repeating it again and again, it rarely goes over well.

I wouldnt say im telling anyone anything. I get its another teams board but its not as if Ive even talked down on the team at all, plus the main board is gross and I cant get as in depth a conversation as I cant with Carolina's fans themselves.

Ive said theyre the best team outside Boston and should have looked to upgrade and should going forward this summer, and that I think their manamegent has show a leaning to keeping futures.

I dont mind the snarkiness or anything like that as long as its coming with good convo and talking points; which I think has been the case thus far. Theyre still a top-3/5 team going forward so even if most of what I say is true it can still be righted in a few months time and all will be forgotten

My Rams made the SuperBowl, lost, then missed the playoffs. Then go on to win it all at home with a different QB. Crazier things have happened and its not at all like Carolina has hurt themselves by being .. perhaps a bit complacent

The extra first we had when trading for Skjei was from the Marleau trade, not Fox. We only got 2 2nds for Fox.

Thats correct. Sorry, when you peruse about 30+ trades in about five minutes you confuse a few things here and there.

Still cant bleieve you guys got a 1st for taking him. Also that Paquette trade was nice, if only he stuck around

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I wouldnt say im telling anyone anything.

Ok.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Im not dying on any hill.. its just a conversation. Ive not once been rude to anyone nor outright claimed someone was wrong on anything.

Meier's price being beaten by nepotism is a pretty hard sell considering the implications thatd place on Grier and the Sharks ownership group. Not that I dont believe there was some idea to get Meier where hed like to be (which likely was with three other Swiss players in NJ), but to imply that the price was marginally better and still rejected would mean an instant firing of Grief if true.

Not to mention the Hurricanes already have a history of being real quiet in trades, especially with higher picks and prospects during three years of being the top Metro team. In fact, theyve received more picks then they've sent out in that timeframe.

Since summer of 2019 (notable trades, I left out picks for picks and AHL moves)

- Haula for a 5th
- Reimer for Darling and a 6th
- Trochek for Haula/Wallmark/parts
- Vatanen for a 3rd
- 1st for Skjei (they had a second 1st from Fox)
- Dzingel for Paquette and Galchenyuk
- Domi for Hreschuk and Korshkov
- Burns for a 3rd/Makiniemi
- Puljujarvi for Puistila
- Gostisbehere for 3rd

So in three years theyve moved one 1st for a player and one 1st for two 2nd's (Nashville, first 2nd became Morrow). Also no 2nds were traded for a player, only for more 3rd rounders

“Parts” is now the best player in the return on that trade. Luostarinen has 16+20=36 in 67 games this season for the Panthers.

You also completely left out Nic Roy in the Haula trade who is also the best player in that trade 3 years later.

Also, with you forgetting Kotkaniemi, your point starts to disintegrate a little. Revising your statement: “in three years they’ve moved 2 1sts for players and one 1st for 2 2nds.” That’s… how I’d expect a contender to operate? You can say they covet futures too much, but that seems to be because they’re trying to get more darts to make up for the fact that they aren’t drafting so much in the 1st round?

 

[NHL Fanatik]

Ok.

Oh come on lol

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Oh come on lol

I'm not sure what you mean? I gave you some advice based on how I viewed your posts were being received by the board and you disagreed. What more is there to say other than "ok"? I have no desire to engage further.

 

[NHL Fanatik]

“Parts” is now the best player in the return on that trade. Luostarinen has 16+20=36 in 67 games this season for the Panthers.

Also, with you forgetting Kotkaniemi, your point starts to disintegrate a little. Revising your statement: “in three years they’ve moved 2 1sts for players and one 1st for 2 2nds.” That’s… how I’d expect a contender to operate? You can say they covet futures too much, but that seems to be because they’re trying to get more darts to make up for the fact that they aren’t drafting so much in the 1st round?

The point of listing those trades (and yess I did forget Kotaniemi, which how could I actually) was that in three years of being the top dog in the Metro (and 2nd best team in that timeframe behind Tampa until this year, now 2nd behind Boston) theyve yet to acquire a player where you go 'yeah, hes gonna help them out a lot'

Id disagree that its standard operating procedure to be leading your division three straight years and still looking to make your first big trade.

But hey, thats even more testament to how strong the core is in Carolina. For all I know this summer they'll make some moves that will put all Ive said to rest. Its just a timing issue that I have